Ronald Reagan Documentary

Dungheap said:
"Standard of living" is kind of a mushy concept. Can you define it such that you can look at specific metrics to determine whether they increased or decreased? Are we talking about color TVs and cable or wages, income, leisure time, household debt and the like?
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Yes, it is a mushy concept, yet that doesn't seem to stop those on the left from proclaiming that the middle class is in decline.
 
Superfreak said:
Yes, it is a mushy concept, yet that doesn't seem to stop those on the left from proclaiming that the middle class is in decline.
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Nor does it stop you from proclaiming that it increased during the Reagan, Bush I and Clinton administrations. I was asking you what you meant by it.
 
Rana said:
The only thing new I got out of the documentary was that Reagan was possibly a snitch for the FBI, I haven't ever read that about him before, even Ron, Jr. didn't like that aspect about his dad.

I still don't like Ronald Reagan the politician. He still started class warfare and liked deficits.
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Ehhh ying and yang. The story is still out on Reagan's legacy. I'd say Reagan's greatest contribution was that when the old Soveit Gaurd died off he did a 180 degree policy turn that royally pissed off the right wing base in negotiating arms reductions and normalization of relationships that help substantially to bring the cold war to an end. He understood that Gorbachev and the new class of leadership were people who he could work with to affect change and to his credit Reagan under took a complete reversal of policy to do so and I think he deserves much credit for doing so. Reagan had the courage to learn from the mistakes of his first term that kept our nation on the cusp of nuclear war with the soviets. I think Reagan realized he had made a huge mistake and put our nation in a precarious situation and he had the courage to radically change his policies towards the Soviets in his second term and thank god that he did.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
oh....and by the way maybe you never heard of Nixons wage and price controls of 1971? Did you hear about Nixon unilaterally cancelling the direct convertability of the US Dollar to gold? Did you ever hear he then increased the printing of money by 10% to pay down debt and causing inflation to take off? Those knuckle headed stunts were the real underlying cause of the stagflation period of the 70's. Those dumb ass moves combined with the additional shock of the 1973 oil crisis (caused by the Arab oil embargo due to Nixon's decision to resupply Israel's military during the the Yom Kippur War) exasperated the situation even further. Then Carter implemented Voelker's monetary advice, which ultimately worked but in the short term drove up both inflation and unemployment which were further aggravated by the 1979 oil panic caused by the Iranian revolution which Carter had nothing to fucking do with.

So before you start your fucking ankle biting try studying a little history and know what the fuck the facts are before you start drinking your kool-aid.

http://countrystudies.us/united-states/history-126.htm
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Once again, Mr. Adult with his 'ankle biting' line of crap. To be clear Mutt, I am not suggesting that inflation NEVER existed prior to Carter, nor am I suggesting that high unemployment NEVER existed prior to Carter.

The point dear little Mutt... is WHAT were the conditions WHEN CARTER TOOK OFFICE? WHAT were they when CARTER LEFT OFFICE?

You want to pretend that the Ford tenure did not exist. That GDP wasn't growing as Carter took office? That Unemployment rate wasn't falling as Carter took office? That inflation, while still high, wasn't falling as Carter took office?

AGAIN.... CARTER PUSSED OUT with regards to Volckers plan. He STARTED, then QUICKLY REVERSED COURSE. He realized that to implement Volcker's plan, it meant short term pain for the economy. CARTER LACKED THE SPINE to do it.

So do take your own advice and actually study the history as it ACTUALLY happened. Stomping your feet about Nixon doesn't change the conditions of the economy when Carter took office. Period.
 
Superfreak said:
Once again, Mr. Adult with his 'ankle biting' line of crap. To be clear Mutt, I am not suggesting that inflation NEVER existed prior to Carter, nor am I suggesting that high unemployment NEVER existed prior to Carter.

The point dear little Mutt... is WHAT were the conditions WHEN CARTER TOOK OFFICE? WHAT were they when CARTER LEFT OFFICE?

You want to pretend that the Ford tenure did not exist. That GDP wasn't growing as Carter took office? That Unemployment rate wasn't falling as Carter took office? That inflation, while still high, wasn't falling as Carter took office?

AGAIN.... CARTER PUSSED OUT with regards to Volckers plan. He STARTED, then QUICKLY REVERSED COURSE. He realized that to implement Volcker's plan, it meant short term pain for the economy. CARTER LACKED THE SPINE to do it.

So do take your own advice and actually study the history as it ACTUALLY happened. Stomping your feet about Nixon doesn't change the conditions of the economy when Carter took office. Period.
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Nip, nip, nip. Dude you can't refute the facts. The period of stagflation began under Nixon and continued through out the 70's and were a direct result of his policies. That is the historical consensus held by the vast majority of historians and economist. Carter inherited those conditions period end of story! Deal with it.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Ehhh ying and yang. The story is still out on Reagan's legacy. I'd say Reagan's greatest contribution was that when the old Soveit Gaurd died off he did a 180 degree policy turn that royally pissed off the right wing base in negotiating arms reductions and normalization of relationships that help substantially to bring the cold war to an end. He understood that Gorbachev and the new class of leadership were people who he could work with to affect change and to his credit Reagan under took a complete reversal of policy to do so and I think he deserves much credit for doing so. Reagan had the courage to learn from the mistakes of his first term that kept our nation on the cusp of nuclear war with the soviets. I think Reagan realized he had made a huge mistake and put our nation in a precarious situation and he had the courage to radically change his policies towards the Soviets in his second term and thank god that he did.
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Or it could be that he dealt with the different Soviet leaders in the manner he should have. There was a great difference in leadership styles between Brezhnev/Andropov and Gorbachev. You are correct that he recognized a partner he could work with. You are also correct in that it pissed the far right/hardliners off when he changed tactics in Soviet relations.

That said, not shocking that you pretend he was simply correcting 'mistakes' given your level of hacktitude against Reagan.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Nip, nip, nip. Dude you can't refute the facts. The period of stagflation began under Nixon and continued through out the 70's and were a direct result of his policies. That is the historical consensus held by the vast majority of historians and economist. Carter inherited those conditions period end of story! Deal with it.
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LMAO... what 'FACTS' have you shown moron? You have shown no data, nothing more than warped left wing 'I hate Reagan' crap.

Really cracks me up that you would dare start to shout 'CONSENSUS!' on this topic too. Has that not embarrassed you enough on the flat earth global warming fear mongering topic?
 
The Dude said:
Let me get this straight deficits under rightwingers= awesome under democrats they are economy killing. Got it
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Let me get this straight... you are a fucking idiot?

Where did I state that deficits under Reps were awesome or great or anything of the kind?
 
Superfreak said:
Let me get this straight... you are a fucking idiot?

Where did I state that deficits under Reps were awesome or great or anything of the kind?
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wait, you can sell you weren't on the Obama's deficits aren't killing the economy to someone else. Not to me. Clown
 
The Dude said:
wait, you can sell you weren't on the Obama's deficits aren't killing the economy to someone else. Not to me. Clown
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1) Yes, I have criticized Obama (as well as Bush, Clinton etc...) for continuous deficit spending
2) I have stated numerous times my disdain for the two parties and the fact that we have had deficit spending every year since Ike was in office.

So tell us toppy, where have I stated that it was ok for Reagan to run his deficits?
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Nip, nip, nip. Dude you can't refute the facts. The period of stagflation began under Nixon and continued through out the 70's and were a direct result of his policies. That is the historical consensus held by the vast majority of historians and economist. Carter inherited those conditions period end of story! Deal with it.
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Has anyone mentioned the cost of the Vietnam war?

Inflation, sparked by the war, contributed to the rise in oil prices in 1973 because of the impact of the devaluation of the dollar on oil producers. It also led to the real estate boom of the 1970s, and because of the built-in expectation of inflation, the introduction of variable interest rates and certificates of deposit by banks and offshore banking.

The Department of Defense placed the direct costs of the Vietnam War at $173 billion. To that could be added potential veterans' benefits costs of $220 billion and interest of $31 billion. Of course, veterans did receive educational and other benefits; research and design in certain fields were enhanced; and expenditures in the defense industry provided jobs for millions that might not have been there in other circumstances.
Despite its limited scope, in many ways the Vietnam War influenced the future course of events on the home front as dramatically as the two world wars. Whether the focus is on domestic politics, the economy, the armed services, or even the way presidents have thought about future military interventions, the war profoundly affected all aspects of American life.
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http://www.english.illinois.edu/Maps/vietnam/domestic.htm
 
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Mott the Hoople said:
No and that was another facter although to be honest, that wasn't completely inherited from Nixon though Nixon did take Johnson's mess and made an even bigger mess of it.
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I will likely regret this, but do elaborate... what did Nixon do that made it worse than under Johnson?

While the bad ending was almost inevitable, I would point to the fact that US deaths under Johnson were far worse than under Nixon.
 
Superfreak said:
Inflation rate when Carter took office.... 5.2%
Inflation rate when Carter left office..... 11.8%
http://www.miseryindex.us/irbyyear.asp

Unemployment when Carter took office... 7.5%
Unemployment when Carter left office... 7.5%
http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000

GDP growth when Carter took office... 5.4%
GDP growth when Carter left office.... -0.3%
http://www.bea.gov/national/

Once again, time for Mutt to run away....
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First, the GDP figures are misleading. Do you have quarterly figures? Second, do you have similar figures for the end of Regan's first term as compared to Carter? Third, do you have information regarding what happened during Carter's term and Reagan's first term, particularly with respect to unemployment and GDP growth?

The only measure that Reagan outperforms Carter on if you look at equivalent time periods is inflation, and the FED is responsible for controlling inflation. Reagan benefited from Carter hiring Volker. Hooray for Reagan!
 
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