Rstring and slave labor

AssHatZombie said:
Then we should make them choose. Im not an isolationist, I believe trade should be conducted within moral parameters, and that the long term impact on all citizens should be considered, not just the short term profitability of corporations. Greatly reforming our trade agreements with china and others is precisely what we should do at this juncture. Things really worth it are often not easy.
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The problem is that it is not just corporate profitability. We would have to also accept the higher costs of goods that would result in our going elsewhere to buy our products. You can work individuals into a anti-corporate frenzy, but you lose the majority of them when it hits their pocket books.
 
Damocles said:
You are an idiot. My job is to point out how stupid it is to restrict our own ability to make change by attempting to force people using the weight of 25% of the world's markets.

Use tarrifs, not force. That is what I said. You are being deliberately disingenuous now.
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:rolleyes:
 
Superfreak said:
The problem is that it is not just corporate profitability. We would have to also accept the higher costs of goods that would result in our going elsewhere to buy our products. You can work individuals into a anti-corporate frenzy, but you lose the majority of them when it hits their pocket books.
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Yes. But we gain an actual future for non professional stock traders. Losing a job is a big hit in the pocketbook. We should be in a frenzy. Our leaders are selling us out by abusing the authority the nation has given them to abuse our very nation. Governments are not just administration blocs for the corporate elites of the world. They explicitly exist to see to the needs of their citizens. When they abrogate that duty, they authority is nullified.
 
Damocles said:
You are an idiot. My job is to point out how stupid it is to restrict our own ability to make change by attempting to force people using the weight of 25% of the world's markets.

Use tarrifs, not force. That is what I said. You are being deliberately disingenuous now.
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and my job is to point out how optimizing american citizens out of the workforce only benefits corporate bottom lines and is pretty fucked and stupid. And putting stipulations on access to our markets is not FORCE. Sorry.
 
AssHatZombie said:
and my job is to point out how optimizing american citizens out of the workforce only benefits corporate bottom lines and is pretty fucked and stupid. And putting stipulations on access to our markets is not FORCE. Sorry.
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Using tariffs in no way "optimizes" US citizens out of the market. It, in fact, helps to keep their jobs because the prices would remain competitive. You either cannot read what I wrote, or refuse to because you want to argue about something on which we largely agree.

We should do "what is right", we cannot force others to do the same by attempting to "force" the issue by threatening to remove the trade. We can, however, take away the "efficiency" by leveling the field in favor of right action in our market directly.

Thus, if Canada gets steel from China cheaply because of "slave labor" we then tariff all products created from that steel sold from Canada and thusly remove the "efficiency" from that product on our market.
 
AssHatZombie said:
Yes. But we gain an actual future for non professional stock traders. Losing a job is a big hit in the pocketbook. We should be in a frenzy. Our leaders are selling us out by abusing the authority the nation has given them to abuse our very nation. Governments are not just administration blocs for the corporate elites of the world. They explicitly exist to see to the needs of their citizens. When they abrogate that duty, they authority is nullified.
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Give me a break. While we have certainly lost jobs from certain sectors of the market (ie.. manufacturing and service), on the whole we have added jobs. Unemployment remains below 5% (which is considered full employment). Median income adjusted for inflation has gone up over the past couple decades (though it has stagnated over the past seven years).

That said, inflation is certainly becoming a concern. Along with the fact that lenders/borrowers have hosed the housing market, inflation is going to hurt in the coming years.

I do agree that the government is there to protect the citizens, but ours abandoned that line of thought long ago. Keep in mind, that protection also means protection of our assets. For 46 years they have taken from us and still managed to squander even more than they receive. Yet our infrastructure is a mess, healthcare costs are still rising, medicare/medicaid/social security are all threatening insolvency. So we the people do indeed need to remind the idiots in DC (from both parties) that they are there to not only protect us, but they are required to do so without screwing over future generations.
 
Damocles said:
Using tariffs in no way "optimizes" US citizens out of the market. It, in fact, helps to keep their jobs because the prices would remain competitive. You either cannot read what I wrote, or refuse to because you want to argue about something on which we largely agree.
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Im pro tariff, and would prefer flat embargo of any slave nations and all who trade with them.
We should do "what is right", we cannot force others to do the same by attempting to "force" the issue by threatening to remove the trade. We can, however, take away the "efficiency" by leveling the field in favor of right action in our market directly.
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Nobody has a right to our markets. We can put any stipulations we want. That's not "force", never has been, never will be.
Thus, if Canada gets steel from China cheaply because of "slave labor" we then tariff all products created from that steel sold from Canada and thusly remove the "efficiency" from that product on our market.
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I understand tariffs and am pro them. I don't know where the miscommunication came from. I was speaking of americans being optimized out of the system as a cost saving goal of most corporations. That is true. Western free people are too expensive. Slaves are cheap. Human degradation should not be a legitimate comparative advantage.
 
Superfreak said:
Give me a break. While we have certainly lost jobs from certain sectors of the market (ie.. manufacturing and service), on the whole we have added jobs. Unemployment remains below 5% (which is considered full employment). Median income adjusted for inflation has gone up over the past couple decades (though it has stagnated over the past seven years).

That said, inflation is certainly becoming a concern. Along with the fact that lenders/borrowers have hosed the housing market, inflation is going to hurt in the coming years.

I do agree that the government is there to protect the citizens, but ours abandoned that line of thought long ago. Keep in mind, that protection also means protection of our assets. For 46 years they have taken from us and still managed to squander even more than they receive. Yet our infrastructure is a mess, healthcare costs are still rising, medicare/medicaid/social security are all threatening insolvency. So we the people do indeed need to remind the idiots in DC (from both parties) that they are there to not only protect us, but they are required to do so without screwing over future generations.
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Get your own break nell carter. And pay attention to the last seven years, that more relevant, considering it's more recent and more reflective of recent developments and intentions of the world corporate elite.
 
For those people-hating statists who want all americans dependant on a benevolent state, China is the lynchpin in achieving that plan. You should have a pro china policy, like the neocons.
 
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How about all you faire traders go get yourselves a nice big island, create a nation, and refuse to trade with anyone. Then we'd all be happy...
 
Threedee said:
How about all you faire traders go get yourselves a nice big island, create a nation, and refuse to trade with anyone. Then we'd all be happy...
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Sounds great. We will have jobs providing for our own needs, while you suckers become mindless drones, dependant on a world government that hates you.
 
Liberano said:
Ok so you are about 17 and never really held a job.

Do you know what Luddites are?
Do you believe that there are only a fixed or set amount of jobs that exist?
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Yes. But slavery is not a modern technological invention, it's a brutality as old as time.

You gonna 'splain it all to me? don't waste your breathe. I used to be just like topspin and all you globalist neocon fucksticks. In fact, I was the best.
 
AssHatZombie said:
Yes. But slavery is not a modern technological invention, it's a brutality as old as time.
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Slavery is old sure, but if someone works somewhere via their own free will then how can it be slavery?
Workers in chinese factories move to places like Shanghai to work because as bad as it sounds to you 12 hours in a sweatshop with crapola lighting for 2 dollars a day is still a decent step up from making a dollar a day harvesting rice in malaria infested paddies in the countryside with the sun beating down on you.
Gradually the Chinese middle class is doing better and then they begin to buy products from other countries including America.

AssHatZombie said:
You gonna 'splain it all to me? don't waste your breathe. I used to be just like topspin and all you globalist neocon fucksticks. In fact, I was the best.
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You wouldn't be here if you didn't value others opinions at least slightly. As one helpful suggestion, you do realize that when you throw out terms like 'illuminati' that the vast majority of people here will discard everything you say, even if you happen to make a good point?
 
Liberano said:
Slavery is old sure, but if someone works somewhere via their own free will then how can it be slavery?
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It's not really free will when your dictatorial regime is bribed by the world bank to remove other options from society and overprice the food.
Workers in chinese factories move to places like Shanghai to work because as bad as it sounds to you 12 hours in a sweatshop with crapola lighting for 2 dollars a day is still a decent step up from making a dollar a day harvesting rice in malaria infested paddies in the countryside with the sun beating down on you.
Gradually the Chinese middle class is doing better and then they begin to buy products from other countries including America.


You wouldn't be here if you didn't value others opinions at least slightly. As one helpful suggestion, you do realize that when you throw out terms like 'illuminati' that the vast majority of people here will discard everything you say, even if you happen to make a good point?
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The fascists in control in china have no notion of equality are committed to totalitarianism and inequity. The government has to want equality for it to happen. they don't. Besides, my main concern is for americans. I don't want americans reduced to slaves in an insane effort to compete with slavery.

Any person who turns off due to one word is an idiot to begin with. Beyond hope. Im interested in others opinions so I can see how to argue with them and bring them around to my clearly more moral viewpoint.
 
We as a country need to come together and get a backbone and cut off trade with China, they have a KNOWN slave labor workforce which is competing with our markets, they unfairly float their currency and they are one of the most brutal dictatorhips across the globe. Why oh why are we doing business with them. So what if a few items cost us a little more? We need to toughen up and fight for our right not to eventually fall into slavery like the Chinese. Its going to happen people. Believe me.
 
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