Same-sex couples begin marrying

WinterBorn said:
They have been against laws in almost every culture. They were against the law in the Code of Hammurabi, which predates the 10 Commandments. There were laws against murder and theft in China long before they were exposed to any judeo-christian influences.
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laws against thievery and murder are suspended during wars of aggression where one nation tries to take what another nation has...
 
Sir Digby Chicken Caesar said:
Wait, so then God was immoral/amoral? All the people of the Old Testament and their teachings were immoral/amoral?

You have problems with the fact that your church has changed its moral positions over time too, but I want to understand the above first.
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all creatures of divinity are amoral as morality does not apply to them

churches, etc. evolve over time or die, they are human creations and as such are born, live and eventually die...or change
 
WinterBorn said:
It also comes down to equality. I also comes down to being able to make decisions for your spouse if they are unable. It also comes down to being able to insure your spouses last wishes are carried out. It also comes down to being able to visit your spouse in a hospital where only family is allowed. It also comes down to being parents in an adoption.

And no one is forcing any morals on you. If gays marry it will not effect you one iota. But you want your morals to be used against them. Funny how that works.
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All of which could easily be accomplished with a simple civil contract.
 
WinterBorn said:
No one has said we should do as all animals do. What has been said is that something that occurs in numerous species of animals cannot be called "unnatural".
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You're really gonna compare animals and humans to decide what is natural and unnatural.....seriously ?

There must be countless things natural to animals that are unnatural to humans, and visa versa. Can't you think of any ?
 
NOVA said:
You're really gonna compare animals and humans to decide what is natural and unnatural.....seriously ?

There must be countless things natural to animals that are unnatural to humans, and visa versa. Can't you think of any ?
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It's pretty funny how dishonest social conservatives have shifted on this part of the argument once science thoroughly disproved their "natural" argument.

Why shouldn't we compare animals and other animals (i.e., humans) to understand our nature. Works with medical studies. Of course, they are not exactly the same but we can gain insights.

How exactly do you define/determine what is natural for humans?
 
NOVA said:
All of which could easily be accomplished with a simple civil contract.
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Not all of the benefits can be accomplished by civil contracts. And the point is why would one segment of the population automatically have those rights and another have to hire a lawyer, file papes ect ect?
 
NOVA said:
You're really gonna compare animals and humans to decide what is natural and unnatural.....seriously ?

There must be countless things natural to animals that are unnatural to humans, and visa versa. Can't you think of any ?
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The fact that they are using "natural" as a benchmark for human relationships in the 21st century is pretty damned funny anyway.
 
cancer is natural.....we should pass a law redefining cancer as happiness.....then cancer would no longer be a problem because people would be dying of happiness.......
 
Sycamore said:
Actually, I answer yes. Society doesn't creep along, but instead moves like pendulum, with periods of rapid change and stagnation. Sometimes things happen rapidly, sometimes they don't. Look at the mid-20th, which saw a brief period of heavy social enlightenment, followed my a period of very little. Then our technological development, which was shortly preceded by much less.

And look at Russia. A long period of stagnation, followed by one of heavy development and change.

In any case, we're near a turning point, where current structures are no longer sustainable. I'm not saying SSM will be legalized, but much of the current morality will have to be trashed.
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While I agree the rate of change isn't uniform up until a rapid change, I wouldn't say stagnation. Conformity or stability I like better ;).

And even Russia. Would you characterize that sort of change as natural and typical? I'd say that they were indeed falling behind the world, and knew it. They even saw Japan confronted with superior technology from an industrial nation, and those in power took drastic measures.

Measures that in no way even gave a second thought to preserving the old culture. Any culture not hard and fast in line with the government's views was squashed, and with it many ideas and views. They financed their rapid development with the blood of their own people for a hastened transition; the people of Russia still feel a scar from that wound today on a national and individual level. Whether they were right or wrong to do so seems to be as controversial as communism itself, or at least in circles I hear from.

Aside, I do agree a cyclitic change does appeal more to me, and I have been toying with the idea. I simply don't know where to start looking.
 
pisskop said:
While I agree the rate of change isn't uniform up until a rapid change, I wouldn't say stagnation. Conformity or stability I like better ;).

And even Russia. Would you characterize that sort of change as natural and typical? I'd say that they were indeed falling behind the world, and knew it. They even saw Japan confronted with superior technology from an industrial nation, and those in power took drastic measures.

Measures that in no way even gave a second thought to preserving the old culture. Any culture not hard and fast in line with the government's views was squashed, and with it many ideas and views. They financed their rapid development with the blood of their own people for a hastened transition; the people of Russia still feel a scar from that wound today on a national and individual level. Whether they were right or wrong to do so seems to be as controversial as communism itself, or at least in circles I hear from.

Aside, I do agree a cyclitic change does appeal more to me, and I have been toying with the idea. I simply don't know where to start looking.
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I much prefer the necessary changes to structures. Plus, I was talking about the shift from tsarism, which the government didn't cause. ;)

martov2.jpg
 
PostmodernProphet said:
cancer is natural.....we should pass a law redefining cancer as happiness.....then cancer would no longer be a problem because people would be dying of happiness.......
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Only a fucking retard would compare homosexuality with cancer.

The only cancer is that within your bigoted heart.
 
Howey said:
Only a fucking retard would compare homosexuality with cancer.

The only cancer is that within your bigoted heart.
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Yeah, they've been comparing homosexuality to cancer, bestiality, polygamy and pedophilia for nearly as long as this debate's been fought. This degrading and alienating rhetoric is one of the main thing that pushes me from the right. Immoral only begins to describe it.
 
Sycamore said:
Yeah, they've been comparing homosexuality to cancer, bestiality, polygamy and pedophilia for nearly as long as this debate's been fought. This degrading and alienating rhetoric is one of the main thing that pushes me from the right. Immoral only begins to describe it.
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Good point. Same-sex intercourse is as natural as humans lying with beasts. It's certainly as productive and useful. ;)
 
Granule said:
Good point. Same-sex intercourse is as natural as humans lying with beasts. It's certainly as productive and useful. ;)
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What if the man was sterile or the woman infertile?

Is that the same as lying with beasts?

I mean...over and above your wife's opinion...
 
Howey said:
What if the man was sterile or the woman infertile?

Is that the same as lying with beasts?

I mean...over and above your wife's opinion...
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At least the adoptive children will know they have normal parents. Unlike the filth that is found slithering around the glory holes of which you speak so affectionately.
 
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