Savages

[T. A. Gardner]

Answers to your first question: What "peace offerings" have been made that include right of return? What "peace offerings" evict all the "settlements" that have violated the original treaties in recent times? Why should they accept anything less?

Why should Israel accept the Palestinian terms unilaterally? The Palestinians are negotiating a peace treaty from a position of near utter and complete helplessness. They are for all intents the defeated after numerous wars with Israel, all of which they lost. They are hardly in a position to negotiate.

Answer to your second question: Simple fact check will show that HAMAS did NOT win the vote in a landslide. As for other Arab countries: did you know that in Saudi Arabia the royal/ruling family has to pay bribes to the various factions of islam in order to keep the peace (this is where the majority of 9-11 terrorists hail from)? It's a factional region ... being an agnostic myself, I just don't understand such vehemence, but there it is.

Hamas WON. Trump won in 2016 with a minority of the vote. Elections have consequences. Hamas was duly elected. What Saudi Arabia, a monarchy, does is their business. It has no relevance here. As for the 9-11 terrorists, they were actively wanted in Saudi Arabia by the authorities and that's why they weren't in the fucking country!

 

[T. A. Gardner]

You're so full of it. YOU don't have an answer, so you just give generalized BS and vague references. YOU can't even honestly and rationally discuss the contents of a short video, so don't think for a minute you can fool anyone to believe that you've read any of the man's books, much less his history.

What can you logically/factually disprove in the video? Put up or STFU!

The only book I still have of his--I tossed the rest when I moved about 2 years ago-- is

I'll give you one example from it (I annotated it to make it easy to demolish his arguments). I kept this one because he did endnote it. Here's an online copy if you want to check things:

Between Barack and a hard place : racism and white denial in the age of Obama : Wise, Tim J : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Includes bibliographical references (p. 150-159)

archive.org

On page 94 and 95 he talks about Blacks and welfare stating...

Two thirds of whites in one survey said the disadvantages suffered by blacks are due to their dependence on welfare, which, again, is an odd claim, seeing as how five out of six blacks don't receive any.

This is his not understanding statistics and lack of mathematical background. Also, his claim is wrong.

New Interactive Data Tool Shows Characteristics of Those Who Receive Assistance From Government Programs

A new data tool allows users to explore thousands of social safety statistics 2013-2019 and demographic and socioeconomic characteristics of recipients.

www.census.gov

50.1% of all persons getting SNAP (aka Food Stamps), TANF, and section 8 rental subsidies are black. That's the official government numbers.

His source is second hand and heavily biased.

Eduardo Bonilla-Silva | Scholars@Duke Profile

Research profile and professional activities of Eduardo Bonilla-Silva

scholars.duke.edu

Bonilla-Silva is a radical Leftist professor at Duke University. That's why his claim here is for shit.

 

[Taichiliberal]

Why should Israel accept the Palestinian terms unilaterally? The Palestinians are negotiating a peace treaty from a position of near utter and complete helplessness. They are for all intents the defeated after numerous wars with Israel, all of which they lost. They are hardly in a position to negotiate.


Hamas WON. Trump won in 2016 with a minority of the vote. Elections have consequences. Hamas was duly elected. What Saudi Arabia, a monarchy, does is their business. It has no relevance here. As for the 9-11 terrorists, they were actively wanted in Saudi Arabia by the authorities and that's why they weren't in the fucking country!

1. Obviously, you know little of what has transpired in that region. Even I know better than the propagandistic rhetoric you spew here. You essentially regurgitate a variation of what you previously stated. Look up the issue of the right of return. Then you may want to look into the treaty violations by the illegal "settlements" that Israel has pulled over the years. I tire of doing the homework for the willfully ignorant such as yourself. Let me know when you want to honestly debate ALL the facts.

2. Comparing the Palestinian election to ours is laughable. Here, for your education: https://www.vox.com/world-politics/23921529/israel-palestine-timeline-gaza-hamas-war-conflict

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

MSN

www.msn.com

 

[T. A. Gardner]

1. Obviously, you know little of what has transpired in that region. Even I know better than the propagandistic rhetoric you spew here. You essentially regurgitate a variation of what you previously stated. Look up the issue of the right of return. Then you may want to look into the treaty violations by the illegal "settlements" that Israel has pulled over the years. I tire of doing the homework for the willfully ignorant such as yourself. Let me know when you want to honestly debate ALL the facts.

2. Comparing the Palestinian election to ours is laughable. Here, for your education: https://www.vox.com/world-politics/23921529/israel-palestine-timeline-gaza-hamas-war-conflict

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

MSN

www.msn.com

In a nutshell, from about 1948 to 1980, the various Arab nations around Israel repeatedly declared war on Israel and had their collective asses handed to them in each one. The Palestinians were, in 1948 told by those Arab states to flee what was then Israel or face death when the victorious Arab armies rolled in. Well, that never happened, and now the Palestinians have nowhere to call home. They fucked themselves and were fucked by their Arab neighbors.

Since then, the Arab states have kicked the Palestinians to the curb and want no part of them in their countries. Palestinians have also attempted overthrows of some of those Arab state's governments. That's the big reason they get kicked out or put on a very short leash.

Before 1948 they were stirring up shit with the Ottoman Empire, then the British and French post WW 1.

Most recently, they started another war on their own with Israel and are getting their asses stomped for it.

You'd think they'd learn...

 

[Taichiliberal]

The only book I still have of his--I tossed the rest when I moved about 2 years ago-- is

I'll give you one example from it (I annotated it to make it easy to demolish his arguments). I kept this one because he did endnote it. Here's an online copy if you want to check things:

Between Barack and a hard place : racism and white denial in the age of Obama : Wise, Tim J : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Includes bibliographical references (p. 150-159)

archive.org

On page 94 and 95 he talks about Blacks and welfare stating...

Two thirds of whites in one survey said the disadvantages suffered by blacks are due to their dependence on welfare, which, again, is an odd claim, seeing as how five out of six blacks don't receive any.

This is his not understanding statistics and lack of mathematical background. Also, his claim is wrong.

New Interactive Data Tool Shows Characteristics of Those Who Receive Assistance From Government Programs

A new data tool allows users to explore thousands of social safety statistics 2013-2019 and demographic and socioeconomic characteristics of recipients.

www.census.gov

50.1% of all persons getting SNAP (aka Food Stamps), TANF, and section 8 rental subsidies are black. That's the official government numbers.

His source is second hand and heavily biased.

Eduardo Bonilla-Silva | Scholars@Duke Profile

Research profile and professional activities of Eduardo Bonilla-Silva

scholars.duke.edu

Bonilla-Silva is a radical Leftist professor at Duke University. That's why his claim here is for shit.

Ahh, the stat game! The pointy hooded crowd's favorite go to for validating their bigotry. I read through your offerings.

Here's your homework assignment: check your source that says 13.7% total population uses SNAP. That's around 43-44 million. The black population total is around 46 million and 23% are on welfare (per census) which is around 10 million people.

Now to get the 50.1% number, your source had to COMBINE 3 INDIVIDUAL PROGRAMS. That doesn't make any sense. TANF had a around 826 thousands folk, and there was NO numbers for rental subsidies. So I would like to see YOUR extrapolations as to how 10million people can make up 50% of 3 programs, one of which has no numbers given.

In other words, bunky.....it just doesn't add up. Where as this little tidbit does: In addition, about 92 percent of all SNAP benefits go to households with income at or below the federal poverty line. SNAP recipients represent different races and/or ethnicities. White: about 37 percent; African American: 26 percent; Hispanic: 16 percent; Asian: 3 percent; and Native American: about 2 percent. https://frac.org/blog/new-usda-repo...t 92 percent,Native American: about 2 percent.

Now of course I don't expect you to do anything but scream bias as to anyone who studies things that contradict your mental comfort zone. So your disapproval of Wise, his reference points, etc. is not unexpected. I also will expect the usual denials and excuses for your erroneous premise. Insipid stubbornness is your core.

You attempted to debunk Wise, you failed.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Ahh, the stat game! The pointy hooded crowd's favorite go to for validating their bigotry. I read through your offerings.

Here's your homework assignment: check your source that says 13.7% total population uses SNAP. That's around 43-44 million. The black population total is around 46 million and 23% are on welfare (per census) which is around 10 million people.

Now to get the 50.1% number, your source had to COMBINE 3 INDIVIDUAL PROGRAMS. That doesn't make any sense. TANF had a around 826 thousands folk, and there was NO numbers for rental subsidies. So I would like to see YOUR extrapolations as to how 10million people can make up 50% of 3 programs, one of which has no numbers given.

In other words, bunky.....it just doesn't add up. Where as this little tidbit does: In addition, about 92 percent of all SNAP benefits go to households with income at or below the federal poverty line. SNAP recipients represent different races and/or ethnicities. White: about 37 percent; African American: 26 percent; Hispanic: 16 percent; Asian: 3 percent; and Native American: about 2 percent. https://frac.org/blog/new-usda-report-provides-picture-of-who-participates-in-snap#:~:text=In addition, about 92 percent,Native American: about 2 percent.

Now of course I don't expect you to do anything but scream bias as to anyone who studies things that contradict your mental comfort zone. So your disapproval of Wise, his reference points, etc. is not unexpected. I also will expect the usual denials and excuses for your erroneous premise. Insipid stubbornness is your core.

You attempted to debunk Wise, you failed.

Actually, it makes PERFECT sense. You don't have to receive all three to be on some form of welfare. If 50.1% of blacks are on one or more of those programs, they are receiving welfare in one form or another. It's that simple. Everything else you posted is nothing but trivial objections and red herrings.

 

[Taichiliberal]

In a nutshell, from about 1948 to 1980, the various Arab nations around Israel repeatedly declared war on Israel and had their collective asses handed to them in each one. The Palestinians were, in 1948 told by those Arab states to flee what was then Israel or face death when the victorious Arab armies rolled in. Well, that never happened, and now the Palestinians have nowhere to call home. They fucked themselves and were fucked by their Arab neighbors.

Since then, the Arab states have kicked the Palestinians to the curb and want no part of them in their countries. Palestinians have also attempted overthrows of some of those Arab state's governments. That's the big reason they get kicked out or put on a very short leash.

Before 1948 they were stirring up shit with the Ottoman Empire, then the British and French post WW 1.

Most recently, they started another war on their own with Israel and are getting their asses stomped for it.

You'd think they'd learn...

In a nutshell, you ignore part of history that you don't like. The objective reader will follow the history of the European migration and establishing the new Israeli state.

You just keep repeating the SOS in various ways because you just don't have the intellectual honesty or courage to discuss key historical points that poke holes in your narrative. Defending the Ottoman Empire is a seriously stupid "hail mary" on your part .... just ask the Armenians.

If you're going to knee jerk toady for zionism, at least know and discuss ALL the facts. I'll pick this up tomorrow or so.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

In a nutshell, you ignore part of history that you don't like. The objective reader will follow the history of the European migration and establishing the new Israeli state.

You just keep repeating the SOS in various ways because you just don't have the intellectual honesty or courage to discuss key historical points that poke holes in your narrative. Defending the Ottoman Empire is a seriously stupid "hail mary" on your part .... just ask the Armenians.

If you're going to knee jerk toady for zionism, at least know and discuss ALL the facts. I'll pick this up tomorrow or so.

Which part did I ignore? Where did I get it wrong with regards to Israel and their neighbors? I didn't "defend the Ottoman Empire" either. I pointed out that Palestinian Arab terrorism and warfare predates Israel considerably. The Palestinians are their own worst enemy.

 

[Taichiliberal]

Actually, it makes PERFECT sense. You don't have to receive all three to be on some form of welfare. If 50.1% of blacks are on one or more of those programs, they are receiving welfare in one form or another. It's that simple. Everything else you posted is nothing but trivial objections and red herrings.

If you're CLAIM all 3 programs add up to 50% participation, you damned sure better have the CORRECT NUMBERS to back up what you say.

Your source doesn't....a major flaw in the census bureau veering off course. Only a simpleton desperate to find something to back up their bigotry would try to excuse what is essentially a "leap of faith".

You don't DARE attack my basic display of how your numbers just don't pan out. Either you're too intellectually dishonest or too ignorant or a little of both. Whatever. The objective reader sees your folly. I'll pick this up tomorrow.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

If you're CLAIM all 3 programs add up to 50% participation, you damned sure better have the CORRECT NUMBERS to back up what you say.

Your source doesn't....a major flaw in the census bureau veering off course. Only a simpleton desperate to find something to back up their bigotry would try to excuse what is essentially a "leap of faith".

You don't DARE attack my basic display of how your numbers just don't pan out. Either you're too intellectually dishonest or too ignorant or a little of both. Whatever. The objective reader sees your folly. I'll pick this up tomorrow.

The census bureau said. That was a direct quote from them. Here it is again taken straight from the page I linked for the census bureau earlier:

• 50.1% of those receiving SNAP, TANF, and rental subsidies were Black and 27.7% were Hispanic in 2014.

 

[Taichiliberal]

Which part did I ignore? Where did I get it wrong with regards to Israel and their neighbors? I didn't "defend the Ottoman Empire" either. I pointed out that Palestinian Arab terrorism and warfare predates Israel considerably. The Palestinians are their own worst enemy.

Egypt, the Ottoman Empire, zionist Israel......get educated you damned fool! See ya later.

 

[Taichiliberal]

The census bureau said. That was a direct quote from them. Here it is again taken straight from the page I linked for the census bureau earlier:

• 50.1% of those receiving SNAP, TANF, and rental subsidies were Black and 27.7% were Hispanic in 2014.

No shit sherlock? Repeating it doesn't deal with my extrapolations based in reality (check my numbers against any source). That's your problem, you latch on like a bitch in heat to parts of information that suits your bigotry and then ignore/deny all else via repetition. You're done. Until next time.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

No shit sherlock? Repeating it doesn't deal with my extrapolations based in reality (check my numbers against any source). That's your problem, you latch on like a bitch in heat to parts of information that suits your bigotry and then ignore/deny all else via repetition. You're done. Until next time.

You really are just terrible at this.

The original point was Wise claimed five out of six blacks don't receive any (welfare). That's 16.67% receiving welfare. Even you in your rant above pointed out that 23% get welfare. When you toss in other programs that amount to welfare in kind--the ones I pointed out--that rises to 50.1%. Wise is full of shit as is his shit radical Leftist source.

wel·fare
[ˈwelˌfer]
noun

statutory procedure or social effort designed to promote the basic physical and material well-being of people in need


The rest of your rant is completely irrelevant.

 

[Taichiliberal]

For the objective reader. Here's where I derailed T.A.'s little train, which has reduced him to regurgitation and making declarations as it they are proven fact: https://www.justplainpolitics.com/threads/savages.216194/post-5989078

He's done, but he's too stubborn to admit it. So he'll do the same dance as he has for his last few posts ( or maybe a new allegation or detour). In any event, I'm done with him here and will let him have the last word (it's very important to folk of his mindset, makes them feel victorious).

 

[T. A. Gardner]

For the objective reader. Here's where I derailed T.A.'s little train, which has reduced him to regurgitation and making declarations as it they are proven fact: https://www.justplainpolitics.com/threads/savages.216194/post-5989078

He's done, but he's too stubborn to admit it. So he'll do the same dance as he has for his last few posts ( or maybe a new allegation or detour). In any event, I'm done with him here and will let him have the last word (it's very important to folk of his mindset, makes them feel victorious).

Don't break your arm patting yourself on the back for your imaginary victory...

 

[Nordberg]

Why should Israel accept the Palestinian terms unilaterally? The Palestinians are negotiating a peace treaty from a position of near utter and complete helplessness. They are for all intents the defeated after numerous wars with Israel, all of which they lost. They are hardly in a position to negotiate.


Hamas WON. Trump won in 2016 with a minority of the vote. Elections have consequences. Hamas was duly elected. What Saudi Arabia, a monarchy, does is their business. It has no relevance here. As for the 9-11 terrorists, they were actively wanted in Saudi Arabia by the authorities and that's why they weren't in the fucking country!

There you go again. Negotiations are to make a lasting peace. If you force a country to accept your terms because of your power, you are making new enemies. Palestinian subjugation is not a road to peace and tranquility. We won, you must shut up and starve.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

There you go again. Negotiations are to make a lasting peace. If you force a country to accept your terms because of your power, you are making new enemies. Palestinian subjugation is not a road to peace and tranquility. We won, you must shut up and starve.

Yea, like that's worked so well in the past... Egypt and Jordan as two examples made a lasting peace with Israel because both got the living shit stomped out of them in several wars. Egypt lost the entire Siani, and could have lost the Suez Canal, as in two wars Israel crossed and captured considerable territory west of it in Egypt. Jordan lost territory and was crushed militarily.

Both negotiated a lasting peace. Hamas and the Palestinians have refused at every turn to do the same. Now, Hamas in Gaza started another war with Israel and they're getting their asses handed to them.

I really don't give a shit if Israel flattens every building in Gaza. I don't. I want a winner. I want Hamas / the Palestinians in Gaza and Israel to agree to a true, lasting peace and never fight another war.

A negotiated, third party, "peace" won't last. A ceasefire isn't peace, it's a temporary lull between wars.

 

[Nordberg]

Yea, like that's worked so well in the past... Egypt and Jordan as two examples made a lasting peace with Israel because both got the living shit stomped out of them in several wars. Egypt lost the entire Siani, and could have lost the Suez Canal, as in two wars Israel crossed and captured considerable territory west of it in Egypt. Jordan lost territory and was crushed militarily.

Both negotiated a lasting peace. Hamas and the Palestinians have refused at every turn to do the same. Now, Hamas in Gaza started another war with Israel and they're getting their asses handed to them.

I really don't give a shit if Israel flattens every building in Gaza. I don't. I want a winner. I want Hamas / the Palestinians in Gaza and Israel to agree to a true, lasting peace and never fight another war.

A negotiated, third party, "peace" won't last. A ceasefire isn't peace, it's a temporary lull between wars.

You do not understand where HAMAS is located. If you ni\uked Palestine to ashes, it would still exist. It is in Lebanon refugee camps, Doha, Qatar, and Egypt, among other places.

 

[Taichiliberal]

You do not understand where HAMAS is located. If you ni\uked Palestine to ashes, it would still exist. It is in Lebanon refugee camps, Doha, Qatar, and Egypt, among other places.

Only the truly stupid or insane would even contemplate nukes in that region. WTF makes them think that the fall out wouldn't eventually affect them, or that eco system would tolerate such a large irradiated area?

 

[T. A. Gardner]

You do not understand where HAMAS is located. If you ni\uked Palestine to ashes, it would still exist. It is in Lebanon refugee camps, Doha, Qatar, and Egypt, among other places.

Egypt and Jordan have all but crushed Hamas and Palestinian terrorist groups in their countries after those groups tried to overthrow the government in both. Lebanon is almost an anarchy in that it's mostly a fiefdom of various militarized religious and terrorist groups that all hate each other. Qatar is too far from Israel to matter to them.

So, nuking Gaza to ash would solve the problem there. No more Gaza strip, no more problem.