APP - Scary without the hype

Yep, Al Gore got his facts wrong on one point during an address in Copenhagen (neocons will SWEAR it was on purpose). But what's interesting to me is that the author who called him on it points out that his findings are just as dramatic without the exaggeration.

http://www.sphere.com/world/article...limate-change-summit-in-copenhagen/19281919

he didn't just get it wrong... he fucking lied.
He represented the info as recent when in fact it was quite old.
 
Originally Posted by Taichiliberal
Yep, Al Gore got his facts wrong on one point during an address in Copenhagen (neocons will SWEAR it was on purpose). But what's interesting to me is that the author who called him on it points out that his findings are just as dramatic without the exaggeration.

http://www.sphere.com/world/article/...19281919

he didn't just get it wrong... he fucking lied.
He represented the info as recent when in fact it was quite old.

Interesting....you automatically assumed the guy purposely lied, yet you are in complete denial when your same thought process is applied to the last 8 years regarding this subject.

That being said, I assume you're in denial or you have contrary information about the correct information that Gore got wrong?
 
My understanding is the north was quite warm at one time. They have found dinosaur bones in Alberta, Canada and this week Edmonton was -45 C! Maybe the earth is going to be one big greenhouse.

How big is Antarctica? Would the available land, if defrosted, compensate for the present land that will be flooded?

Sorry for asking but it's barely +5 F here today. :-(
 
There was an interesting show on History last night about the Sahara Desert and how it changes every 10,000 years, with a geologic record of these changes going back millions of years. The cycle coincides exactly with the wobble of the Earth on its axis. 10,000 year cycles are what I remember from college as ice age cycles as well.
 
Interesting....you automatically assumed the guy purposely lied, yet you are in complete denial when your same thought process is applied to the last 8 years regarding this subject.

That being said, I assume you're in denial or you have contrary information about the correct information that Gore got wrong?

it's obvious he lied. The scientist in question said their conversation was several years ago, but Al repeatedly says it's fresh.

And Yes, I listened to the interview with the scientist.
He doesn't say what Gore says, but the interviewer says it in prefacing the interview. The scientist does not correct the interviewer. So, I can see why gore would latch onto this info, but he still lied about it being fresh science.
 
There was an interesting show on History last night about the Sahara Desert and how it changes every 10,000 years, with a geologic record of these changes going back millions of years. The cycle coincides exactly with the wobble of the Earth on its axis. 10,000 year cycles are what I remember from college as ice age cycles as well.

As you recall from several years ago, the argument has always been that the warming right now is unprecedented. The evidence was reconstructed temps deduced from treering proxies. Or so we thought. But it turns out if the scientists used the same method (calculated by treering width/density) on the recent growth of trees, the temp reading they get doesn't match the high temp reading of actual temps that we have actual data for. This is the problem they had to solve. All they had to do was misrepresent the graph. And as we see now, it doesn't matter to people like ching chang here one little bit. They are perfectly happy to call it science if it meets their goals.

Even with the knowledge of the deception, warmers remain faithful.

The facts about the adjustments are not in dispute. They mated real temps onto estimated temps derived by theories about temps and tree ring size.

One part of the temp graph has error margins, the other does not. We know the real temps. The recent temps should have beeen calculated using the treering method. Hoe else can we know how to determine the temps from treering data? Cart before the horse? WTF?

Clearly, the actual temps not matching the temps derived by treering method SHOULD have called the treering method into question.

Not our heros!. Just use the real temps when the treerings stop making their case


It's obvious to me that the posters here who still defend this science, really don't understand it.
 
I recall having a debate over a similar issue, not tree rings but actual weather station data. My point was that many of these sites have become urbanized over time, and in fact some are moved several miles. Urbanization is an obvious effect on temperatures at that discreet location. Intuition and facts back this up. My opponent stated that the "scientists" know all this so use "adjustment factors" to counter the urbanization effects. That's bullshit, of course, because these "scientists" don't know the details of what happened at or around a site over 110 years of data, and if they did could play with the adjustment constants to get any end result that they wanted.
 
My understanding is the north was quite warm at one time. They have found dinosaur bones in Alberta, Canada and this week Edmonton was -45 C! Maybe the earth is going to be one big greenhouse.

How big is Antarctica? Would the available land, if defrosted, compensate for the present land that will be flooded?

Sorry for asking but it's barely +5 F here today. :-(

See, the bottom line is that no one is denying natural climate change....it's the drastic urbanization, deforestation along with increasing levels of atmospheric pollution that has affected this natural change...and it's not for the better.

We can adapt as a species...but competing against each other for the illusion of economic superiority is not going to bode well for anyone.
 
it's obvious he lied. The scientist in question said their conversation was several years ago, but Al repeatedly says it's fresh.

Repeating yourself ad nauseum won't make an allegation magically come true. However, I will concede that unless Al makes a public statement that he screwed up, the repetitive "liar" bullhorn by the neocons will become more plausible.

And Yes, I listened to the interview with the scientist.
He doesn't say what Gore says, but the interviewer says it in prefacing the interview. The scientist does not correct the interviewer. So, I can see why gore would latch onto this info, but he still lied about it being fresh science.

Please provide a link to that interview, if possible. What you are saying here that based on the interviewer, you cand see how Gore might have gotten the wrong idea...yet you INSIST he's still a liar. Weird, you're a liar because you believe in the misleading info from the source. Seems you've just got it in for Gore.
 
As you recall from several years ago, the argument has always been that the warming right now is unprecedented. The evidence was reconstructed temps deduced from treering proxies. Or so we thought. But it turns out if the scientists used the same method (calculated by treering width/density) on the recent growth of trees, the temp reading they get doesn't match the high temp reading of actual temps that we have actual data for. This is the problem they had to solve. All they had to do was misrepresent the graph. And as we see now, it doesn't matter to people like ching chang here one little bit. They are perfectly happy to call it science if it meets their goals.

Even with the knowledge of the deception, warmers remain faithful.

The facts about the adjustments are not in dispute. They mated real temps onto estimated temps derived by theories about temps and tree ring size.

One part of the temp graph has error margins, the other does not. We know the real temps. The recent temps should have beeen calculated using the treering method. Hoe else can we know how to determine the temps from treering data? Cart before the horse? WTF?

Clearly, the actual temps not matching the temps derived by treering method SHOULD have called the treering method into question.

Not our heros!. Just use the real temps when the treerings stop making their case


It's obvious to me that the posters here who still defend this science, really don't understand it.


You keep trying to look at trends that took thousands of years to normally occur while leaving out the FACTS that the previously recorded trends were done WITHOUT global increase of the last 200 years in industrial air pollution, global deforestation and urbanization of land and water that is crucial in the CO2/oxygen exchange.

See, the bottom line is that no one is denying natural climate change....
We can adapt as a species...but denial of what man has added to the mix in the last 200 years while competing against each other for the illusion of economic superiority is not going to bode well for anyone.
 
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My understanding is the north was quite warm at one time. They have found dinosaur bones in Alberta, Canada and this week Edmonton was -45 C! Maybe the earth is going to be one big greenhouse.

How big is Antarctica? Would the available land, if defrosted, compensate for the present land that will be flooded?

Sorry for asking but it's barely +5 F here today. :-(

You'd need a lot of warming to literally melt all of antarctica, and it would take millions of years for that plate to rise all the way back to the surface, because it's been crushed under ice for so long. Antarctica is rather small anyway.
 
This would be the actual size of antarctica right after an ice melt:

change_rocksurface.jpg
 
You'd need a lot of warming to literally melt all of antarctica, and it would take millions of years for that plate to rise all the way back to the surface, because it's been crushed under ice for so long. Antarctica is rather small anyway.

I guess we can scrap that idea. :(
 
Please provide a link to that interview, if possible. What you are saying here that based on the interviewer, you cand see how Gore might have gotten the wrong idea...yet you INSIST he's still a liar. Weird, you're a liar because you believe in the misleading info from the source. Seems you've just got it in for Gore.

Fuckin' amazing how you can bend over backwards making excuses for Gore with this statement but could not begin to apply the same logic to Bush and Iraqi WMD even after hearing the infamous Dem quotes saying the same thing over about 7 years, with NIE confirmation, along with 15+ unanimous UN resolutions all agreeing....but then thats another thread....:pke:

What a hack you are...

Personally, I don't think Gore consciously lied..but he'll grab at anything and everything he can .....hes just in this hoax so deep he can't get out without looking like the fool and hypocrite we all know he is.....
 
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