Scientism

[Yakuda]

That's never bothered me. Human values and cultural norms aren't neccesarily all based on scientific laws or equations.

There is no mathmatical equation or scientic law that explains humans affinity for aesthetic beauty, art, or music.

I think getting back to the OP, it's preposterous to believe science is the source of all knowledge.

Separate and apart from what bothers you the argument has been advanced that there is science to support the tranny nonsense and thats just pure BS

I agree but sex/gender is not beauty art or music

Maybe you think so but that's not the case for the culture at large. I think most of this BS is emotional in nature and people appeal to science only to try and legitimize their emotional point of view.

 

[Kafka]

Separate and apart from what bothers you the argument has been advanced that there is science to support the tranny nonsense and thats just pure BS

I agree but sex/gender is not beauty art or music

Maybe you think so but that's not the case for the culture at large. I think most of this BS is emotional in nature and people appeal to science only to try and legitimize their emotional point of view.

Gender dysphoria and, indeed, any emotionally-predicated issues ARE all outcomes of the physical brain. Why are some born with gender dysphoria (the real stuff, the stuff where someone feels dramatically off from their birth sex) and some not? There will likely be some physical aspect underneath it, IMHO. Whether it's the mixture of hormones the developing brain was exposed to in utero or it is an effect that is trained into the neuron network that is the physical brain, there's no reason to assume that it isn't somehow predicated on something that can be measured and quantified (even if it is currently not that).

Sure there are probably a lot of young folks who dress funky today (men wearing skirts etc.) to let their "freak flag fly" and it doesn't really mean they are gender dysphoric, just seeking to express their inner selves without committing to something except for a brief fashion statement. But for people who honestly feel gender dysphoria there's no reason to assume it is somehow "wrong" or "bad". It is just another effect of a complex physical brain and body.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

Separate and apart from what bothers you the argument has been advanced that there is science to support the tranny nonsense and thats just pure BS

So what? How does that justify stripping Americans of their rights?

 

[Yakuda]

Gender dysphoria and, indeed, any emotionally-predicated issues ARE all outcomes of the physical brain. Why are some born with gender dysphoria (the real stuff, the stuff where someone feels dramatically off from their birth sex) and some not? There will likely be some physical aspect underneath it, IMHO. Whether it's the mixture of hormones the developing brain was exposed to in utero or it is an effect that is trained into the neuron network that is the physical brain, there's no reason to assume that it isn't somehow predicated on something that can be measured and quantified (even if it is currently not that).

Sure there are probably a lot of young folks who dress funky today (men wearing skirts etc.) to let their "freak flag fly" and it doesn't really mean they are gender dysphoric, just seeking to express their inner selves without committing to something except for a brief fashion statement. But for people who honestly feel gender dysphoria there's no reason to assume it is somehow "wrong" or "bad". It is just another effect of a complex physical brain and body.

BS In 2017 kids diagnosed with gender dysphoria was just over 15,000 in 2021 its just 42,000. In 4 years it's nearly tripled?

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-transyouth-data/

It's not about good or bad it's about what is. If you're a boy and you want to wear dress nobody gives a fuck. You start demanding we call you a girl of you think you actually are a girl and should be allowed to use ladies bathrooms or compete in women's sports then you're brain
damaged. There is no science to support that crap.

 

[Kafka]

There is no science to support that crap.

I don't usually seriously consider universal negative claims. You don't know this. You don't LIKE it is what the issue is.

 

[Yakuda]

I don't usually seriously consider universal negative claims. You don't know this. You don't LIKE it is what the issue is.

The diagnosis of gender dysphoria increased three fold in the four year period mentioned in the link I provided. That has nothing to do with what I like. This whole tranny crap is predicated on the idea that a tiny portion of humans are born intersex. The subsequent assertion the is that gender is "fluid" because a tine portion of the population has a legitimate medical condition. What we have seen as a result are people who weren't born intersex, "identifying" as the opposite gender. Its delusional

It's also delusional to demand people acknowledge whatever the hell you "identify" as today. So when a person with anorexic "identifies" as fat we should out them on a diet right? It's not a mental health issue?

 

[IBDaMann]

Gender dysphoria and, indeed, any emotionally-predicated issues ARE all outcomes of the physical brain. Why are some born with gender dysphoria (the real stuff, the stuff where someone feels dramatically off from their birth sex) and some not? There will likely be some physical aspect underneath it, IMHO. Whether it's the mixture of hormones the developing brain was exposed to in utero or it is an effect that is trained into the neuron network that is the physical brain, there's no reason to assume that it isn't somehow predicated on something that can be measured and quantified (even if it is currently not that).

You are absolutely correct, it's just that, as you mentioned, there is no science to support any position one way or the other today.

Sure there are probably a lot of young folks who dress funky today (men wearing skirts etc.) to let their "freak flag fly" and it doesn't really mean they are gender dysphoric, just seeking to express their inner selves without committing to something except for a brief fashion statement. But for people who honestly feel gender dysphoria there's no reason to assume it is somehow "wrong" or "bad". It is just another effect of a complex physical brain and body.

You are spot on, but the politics become unnecessarily convoluted because both sides deliberately refuse to discuss the matter rationally. Gender confusion as well as homosexuality and lesbianism, are 100% natural but are abnormal. Those who HATE LGBTQIAMISLVPRPWCNAERVWP+ insist on characterizing the whole lot as "unnatural" while LGBTQIAMISLVPRPWCNAERVWP+ refuse to accept the abnormality of their condition and won't accept the label "abnormal." Hence, the two sides guarantee no productive dialog can ever occur.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

The diagnosis of gender dysphoria increased three fold in the four year period mentioned in the link I provided. That has nothing to do with what I like.

This whole tranny crap is predicated on the idea that a tiny portion of humans are born intersex. The subsequent assertion the is that gender is "fluid" because a tine portion of the population has a legitimate medical condition. What we have seen as a result are people who weren't born intersex, "identifying" as the opposite gender. Its delusional

It's also delusional to demand people acknowledge whatever the hell you "identify" as today. So when a person with anorexic "identifies" as fat we should out them on a diet right? It's not a mental health issue?

Only the ignorant and the truly stupid believe people can turn "tranny", gay, whatever. Human beings love what they love. What business is it of yours what two or more consenting adults want to do with themselves?

Yes, only a small percentage of people are not heterosexual although women are more likely to experiment homosexuality than men yet still be heterosexual. 88.3% of people are heterosexual with the second largest group being bisexual as 4.4% and gays/lesbians at 3.3%. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1383867/sexual-orientation-us/

The link doesn't specify gender dysphoria, but this one says it's "0.5 to 1.3%". https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28838353/ I fail to see the need for Trumpian dumbasses to shit their Depends because a number jumps from 0.5% to almost 1.5%. FWIW, I don't put much credence in children and adolescents, whose brains are not fully formed, claiming to be one thing over another.

That said, and for that very reason, I'm against any permanent sexual transitions, such as surgery, for under 18. Gender affirming care and some medications are fine by me as long as it's reversible.

 

[Cypress]

Separate and apart from what bothers you the argument has been advanced that there is science to support the tranny nonsense and thats just pure BS

I agree but sex/gender is not beauty art or music

Maybe you think so but that's not the case for the culture at large. I think most of this BS is emotional in nature and people appeal to science only to try and legitimize their emotional point of view.

I just think you're building a gigantic mountain out of a little tiny mole hill. In normal everyday life, I just don't see this playing a hugely visible, enormously disruptive, and substantial role, even though stories of gender Identity make great ratings for FOX.

 

[Yakuda]

I just think you're building a gigantic mountain out of a little tiny mole hill. In normal everyday life, I just don't see this playing a hugely visible, enormously disruptive, and substantial role, even though stories of gender Identity make great ratings for FOX.

Thanks for your opinion but it has absolutely NOTHING to do with why I mentioned gender.

 

[Cypress]

Thanks for your opinion but it has absolutely NOTHING to do with why I mentioned gender.

We don't have science or equations that explain freedom, equality, charity, humility, let alone psychological gender identity.

Yes, Darwinian evolution and genetics defines gender on the basis of chromosomes. But the point of this thread is that not all human knowledge and behavior has to be the handmaiden of scientific equations. If some dude feels an identity with female gender roles, it really doesn't effect my life.

 

[Yakuda]

We don't have science or equations that explain freedom, equality, charity, humility, let alone psychological gender identity.

Yes, Darwinian evolution and genetics defines gender on the basis of chromosomes. But the point of this thread is that not all human knowledge and behavior has to be the handmaiden of scientific equations. If some dude feels an identity with female gender roles, it really doesn't effect my life.

I'm fascinated by this leftist "logic" that if something really doesn't effect my life then I don't or shouldn't give a shit about it. I could cite a thousand examples of things that don't effect your life but youd shine that it does effect your life.

The things is if a dude feels like a woman i dont give a shit. If however that man want to use the same bathroom that my wife and daughter use then he better have a better fucking justification for doing so besides he "feels an identify with female gender roles" That's useless fucking drivel.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I just think you're building a gigantic mountain out of a little tiny mole hill. In normal everyday life, I just don't see this playing a hugely visible, enormously disruptive, and substantial role, even though stories of gender Identity make great ratings for FOX.

Agreed. OTOH, it's possible he's so emotional about this topic because he once hired a female prostitute who turned out to have a bigger dick than he has...and he's still upset about the traumatic experience.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

We don't have science or equations that explain freedom, equality, charity, humility, let alone psychological gender identity.

Yes, Darwinian evolution and genetics defines gender on the basis of chromosomes. But the point of this thread is that not all human knowledge and behavior has to be the handmaiden of scientific equations. If some dude feels an identity with female gender roles, it really doesn't effect my life.

As STY recently posted elsewhere, Alt-Righties support the Constitution and the law as long as they agree with it. If they don't, they will violently oppose it.

Yak is saying the same goes for anything they consider "woke" or people engaging in sexual activities they dislike.

 

[Cypress]

As STY recently posted elsewhere, Alt-Righties support the Constitution and the law as long as they agree with it. If they don't, they will violently oppose it.

Yak is saying the same goes for anything they consider "woke" or people engaging in sexual activities they dislike.

It was remarkable how quickly MAGAs abandoned the constitution on J6.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

It was remarkable how quickly MAGAs abandoned the constitution on J6.

Because, like lip-service Christians, they only claim to support the Constitution. Obviously they don't support it if they are willing to murder Americans because they disagree with it.

 

[Cypress]

Agreed. OTOH, it's possible he's so emotional about this topic because he once hired a female prostitute who turned out to have a bigger dick than he has...and he's still upset about the traumatic experience.

FOX and Newsmax have built business models that tap into the grievance psychology of rightwing rubes. It's in a constant state of flux; one year it's about school prayer, another year it's about gay marriage, then wars on Christmas, Sharia law, then CRT, woke, drag shows, and transgenders.

With the constant state of flux, and new marching orders about what to be outraged about, I was surprised MAGAs never figured out they are being manipulated and trained like monkeys.

 

[Cypress]

Because, like lip-service Christians, they only claim to support the Constitution. Obviously they don't support it if they are willing to murder Americans because they disagree with it.

Lip service is a good way of putting it

 

[Dutch Uncle]

FOX and Newsmax have built business models that tap into the grievance psychology of rightwing rubes.

It's in a constant state of flux; one year it's about school prayer, another year it's about gay marriage, then wars on Christmas, Sharia law, then CRT, woke, drag shows, and transgenders.

With the constant state of flux, and new marching orders about what to be outraged about, I was surprised MAGAs never figured out they are being manipulated and trained like monkeys.

Agreed, but that's the evolution of the "Information Age" where people can pick and choose what they like to listen to. MSNBC for the far Left, Fox and Newsmax for the far Right.

Notice how much is about sex. It's not only very Victorian, but also clearly religious. How many times has the Alt-Right wanted to push their brand of religion into our laws, our Constitution and our government? They are American Jihadists who seek to impose their beliefs upon others and destroy or kill anyone who disagrees with them.

 

[Kafka]

We don't have science or equations that explain freedom, equality, charity, humility, let alone psychological gender identity.

I have GOT to ask you: whenever you say things like this, do you think there's some ineffible somethingness outside of the physical brain that accounts for psychological gender identity? Do you think it's "force" or some "energy" that can exist outside of the human brain? That there is such a thing as a "gender identity" that is not associated integrally with a human physical body/brain?


I'm genuinely curious about this. What do you think is the "nature" of gender identity if it is not purely a physical feature of the brain?