Scott Ritter: 2023 Outlook for Ukraine | Consortium News
- Thread starter Scott
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Scott Ritter actually held your stance in regards to what Russia's initial goal was in the past, but I believe he's since changed stance and I think he was right to do so. Even the U.S. initially thought that Russia would breeze through Ukraine without too much trouble. The fact that they didn't is what got the collective west to think that they could just push Russia back. I think Russia learned an important lesson as to what a determined country can do, but I think at this point, it's the collective west that's beginning to realize that while Russia took longer than it expeted to achieve its goals, the odds are very high that it will achieve them nonetheless.
The american military media complex, yes. The ones who suffer the most are the ones on the battlefield. I know some people think that any Russian article can't possibly be true, but sometimes I think they really nail it. I think the following RT article from January 6 is particularly apt:
US set to fight Russia ‘to the last Ukrainian’ – Moscow | RT
Quoting the introduction of the article:
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The US government’s policies on Ukraine show it is not interested in a peaceful resolution of the conflict, the Russian ambassador to Washington said on Thursday.
In a statement, Anatoly Antonov argued that Washington’s decision to supply Kiev with Bradley Fighting Vehicles only confirms the US has not “even tried to listen” to Russia’s warnings against such “a dangerous course.”
“The US unleashed a real proxy-war against Russia by supporting Nazi criminals in Kiev” as early as 2014, the ambassador said, referring to the coup that ousted the democratically elected president, Viktor Yanukovich. “Any talk about a ‘defensive nature’ of weapons supplied to Ukraine has long become absurd,” he added.
The envoy claimed Western arms shipments only encourage Ukrainian radicals to commit “terrible deeds,” adding to “their feeling of impunity… They continue to kill civilians in Donbass, Zaporozhye and Kherson Regions of the Russian Federation in an extremely cynical way.”
[snip]
“All this means that Washington is committed to fighting with us ‘to the last Ukrainian’, while the destiny of people of Ukraine means nothing to the US,” the diplomat argued.
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Please see Post #19 for what I consider to be a very informative article on what really happened prior to Russia's annexation of Crimea and how things have been there since then.
I dont know what he is thinking but there is very little chance that I am wrong about what Russia required if that was the mission, or that Putin was moronic enough to not understand that. America's debacle in IRAQ surely drove home the lesson.
I was reading that some Western "experts" believe that Putin does not understand Ukraine at all, that some intel people told him that all Russian needed to do was push in a "shock and awe" operation and Ukraine would collapse into a puddle of goo that could be occupied by Russia's limited forces. I think that is nonsense....this war has been going on since 2014 and the oligarchs run Ukraine with an iron fist....there was never any evidence that a collapse was near, and I doubt very much that Putin ever thought that it would.
Besides, Russia has its eyes on bigger fish.....teaming with China to end the West, and bring about a new world order.....occupying Ukraine has little upside and would be ruinously expensive. When the Americans demanded to make this a proxy war between Russia and the West (it is actually between THe New Chinese Empire and the West) it became worth spending a lot on, and China can not allow Russia to lose, and I predict that they will not.
Besides, Russia has its eyes on bigger fish.....teaming with China to end the West, and bring about a new world order.....occupying Ukraine has little upside and would be ruinously expensive. When the Americans demanded to make this a proxy war between Russia and the West (it is actually between THe New Chinese Empire and the West) it became worth spending a lot on, and China can not allow Russia to lose, and I predict that they will not.
We may quibble about this, but I think it doesn't really matter. I think we can both agree that Russia is now well on its way to achieving its objectives, and the only difference that all the west's weapons have done is delay Russia's goals and increase the death count on both sides. Iraq is another issue- what happens -after- the war is officially over and one side has apparently won.
I'm not so sure, but as I said before, I don't think it really matters at this point. Whether or not Russia was expecting an easy victory, they're well on their way to achieving it now. I agree concerning the oligarchs, and not just of the Ukranian sort. Soros, NATO governments, lots of power brokers to go around there.
Even now, I don't think ending the west is really Russia's goal, or China's for that matter. They have continually stated that they want a multi polar world. Barring a nuclear exchange that leaves the world a mess, I think they are well on their way to achieving this. That doesn't mean I don't think that Russia and China don't have serious problems of their own or that I'd want to live in either country myself, but I think that the U.S.'s time gaining more and more influence is long behind it and its global influence is now dwindling.
I'm personally not sure whether China even cares if Russia wins- they've certainly shown less support then a few other countries with closer ties to Russia. That being said, I would say that on the whole, they have shown Russian support, if only in subtle ways.
anonymoose
Classical Liberal
It’s objectives seem to change a lot.
Not its stated objectives. Its stated objectives were to increase the Russian Federation's security and defend the Donbass republics. I think that helping defend the Donbass republics actually helps increase their security. I also think that Russia made a valiant 8 year effort to avoid this war entirely, but the west was never serious about trying to make a lasting peace in Ukraine as has recently been revealed.
The Chinese lie constantly and Russia is now completely dependent on Chinese support, exactly where China wants them, and to an alarming degree America made it happen.
If you dont know that China is coming to kick our asses and make America the primier shit hole country for as far as they eyes can see as retribution for what we have done then you dont understand what is going on, you dont know the Han.
I definitely agree that the west has essentially pushed Russia into China's arms, with the U.S. leading the charge.
By we, I'm guessing you mean the U.S. What has the U.S. done?
The chinese have an extensive list of our crimes, which they publish every day to anyone who will listen.
Can you link to this list?
The Han -.-?