Sell me on Vladamir Putin
- Thread starter Amadeus
- Start date
Should sanctions be eased, and should the annexation of Crimea be recognized? Just curious.
He's ex-KGB and he's a murderer. And he runs Russia like a thug. But you're ignoring the intent of my post. Put Putin in the best possible light for me.
there needs to be a path to easing sanctions.
I for one would demand he remove all of his military out of Donbass and eastern Ukraine.
( supporting the separatists)
In return we end sanctions and recognize the Crimean Referendum ( since that's a done deal.)
"I come not to praise Putin" but you simply cannot ignore him either.
I suppose the best possible light would be to look at the NATO expansion after the demise of the USSR.
It's clear that's what got us here. It's clear that's what Putin uses as reasoning to push back.
I'd have to go into Russian nationalism and such to actually praise him -which i have no interest in doing as an American. we do cooperate on terrorism -but that again is a function of realpolitik
Look at my sig.
Another massive straw man illustrating why you support the Party of the Jackass.
I have a better question; how is turning on Russia and calling their leader a criminal ensure peace or cooperation?
Dunce.
I for one would demand he remove all of his military out of Donbass and eastern Ukraine. ( supporting the separatists)
In return we end sanctions and recognize the Crimea Referendum ( since that's a done deal.)
Seems like a TREMENDOUS net gain for Putin, doesn't it? Putin moves 20 spaces forward, 5 spaces back. Gains 15 points. And what does the international community gain, specifically America?
Wow, so it's everyone's fault but Putin's that he has acted and taken the actions he has? Interesting theory, that Putin would be totally cool if everyone would stop poking the bear.
I generally try not to read the wisdom of should-be war criminals.
PostmodernProphet
fully immersed in faith..
Kill Isis......
In what capacity and in what area of cooperation? If could certainly be argued -- if not be verified as the gospel truth -- that Putin has vastly increased the problem of ISIS and terrorism in general.
Fucking CHUD.
Buckly J. Ewer
Racism Whistleblower
Calling him a "KGB murderous thug" ...
Happens to be true...
But he got your orange clown elected so he must be okay now...Right?
you don't seem to get the idea of realpolitik.
You manage the relationship. anything else is beyond your control and extraneous to the situation at hand.
The situation at hand is where we are now.
Putin annexed Crimea ( without firing a shot) and is trying to federate away the east from Kyiv's control.
Kyiv is now openly hostile to Putin, and the Russian separatists are a function of that
Worrying about how he gained in the past is important to understand so we don't blunder again-
( and this goes for Putin's expanse in the middle east too) but is not helpful in managing the here and now.
Tillerson said it best:
"There is no 'Russian reset'. No going back.
There is only where we are now with relations at an all time low - and what we do from here on forward."
He certainly would have had no reason to annex Crimea without our meddling in the Uk's Euromaiden
which directly threatened his access to Sevastopol.
Or how about the buzzing of US ships in the Black Sea,or during war games with Poland?
Ending this hysterical confrontation attitude at all nexus points we intersect would pay dividends
for the U.S./Russia/world
Pity you dismiss wisdom from where ever it comes , even from a war criminal like Kissinger
Minister of Truth
Practically Perfect
A relationship has to have a foundation. What would be the foundation of a Putin/America relationship? Sell me.
Since you give Putin a complete and total pass on his foreign policy, what about his domestic policy? The oligarchs have pick-pocketed the Russian people, such that Putin himself is estimated to be worth 200 billion. Civil rights are basically non-existent. Being gay is a crime. Political dissent is punishable by death. How is that anyone's fault but Putin's? How does America or NATO push him to be a dictatorial oligarch?
I dismiss all wisdom when the source of that wisdom is curdled. Do you know what wisdom and why it is valuable?
Alternative question: Lets say the opposite of Putin is elected in Russia. Someone who embraces liberal democracies, embraces NATO, embraces civil rights, and pushes for free and fair elections. Someone who basically reverses everything Putin did under his reign.
How would you treat such a Russia and their relationship with the West?
How would you treat such a Russia and their relationship with the West?
evince
Truthmatters
why didn't you take that same tact with Sadam asshole
evince
Truthmatters
Putin was told what he needs to do when the sanctions were placed idiot
Cold War 2.0 is the big relationship. Relationships don't have to be positive, they can be adversarial also.
Obama upped the Cold War spending ( and he would never spend more then needed) with the European Reassurance Initiative:
Much of Trump's increased spending is for naval upgrades, bu also the concept of fighting "2 land wars"
Which means the personnel,equipment, and bases costs to keep up.
Here's a question for you:
all other considerations aside -would it not be better for the US to be spending that money for domestic needs?
well the way you accomplish that is to begin to revese the tensions built up since NATO expansion
I don't give Putin a pass on his foreign policy-but I do think it has to be understood.
As I've mentioned many times before "Putin is a rational state actor"-meaning he's not operating from some fanatical base-but from what he perceives as concrete measures to further Russia's interests.
Which brings us back to realpolitik again the chances for both the US/NATO/and Russia to all operate from our own best interests.
And the new Cold War 2.0 serves none of our purposes except our military industrial complexes.
Putin is Russia's leader, and is Russia's problem good and bad. We really cannot effect internal Russian dynamics
anymore then Putin did in our election.
We can try some Deep State moves against him ( and i'm sure we do)- but we cannot control his governing.
Realpolitik says we need not like him, or want his style of government -we only have to deal with him because he exists and ignoring him doesn't work.
people are complex,and I would argue Kissinger was doing Nixon's business (policy)in Vietnam.
But Kissinger also came up with the idea of playing the"China card"
This is not to dismiss his war crimes -but it is to see his valued idea in international relations
Buckly J. Ewer
Racism Whistleblower
ANATTA LOVES HIM...
VLAD IS GLAD
evince
Truthmatters
why
that would make them more amendable to a friendlier relationship -but it wouldn't guide the relationship per se'.
With the exception of NATO where we have an alliance, and Great Britain's "special relationship"
we operate internationally with whatever our perceived bests interests are.
In Great Britain's case we assume we operate in the same best interest.
In NATO's case we assume a military coordination.
Still running with that stupid false narrative eh retard?
An open microphone captured US President Barack Obama assuring Russian President Dmitry Medvedev that he will have "more flexibility" to deal with missile defense after this year's US presidential election.