Should the US Government become Shareholders in US Business?

Frank Apisa said:
Why are there so many Americans who think that because other countries cannot make idea work...that means we cannot either?

I think America can do what other countries have been unable to do.

AND I think the government should compete with the private sector...to see that we get the most favorable results at the lowest cost for everyone. If the private sector wins...fine with me.
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So even though its never really worked before somehow today the U.S. Government is going to go head to head with the third largest company in the world, set up supply chains for all services Amazon provides around the globe, and not only compete but provide better service than Amazon currently does?

My recommendation would be no one hold their breath.
 
cawacko said:
So even though its never really worked before somehow today the U.S. Government is going to go head to head with the third largest company in the world, set up supply chains for all services Amazon provides around the globe, and not only compete but provide better service than Amazon currently does?

My recommendation would be no one hold their breath.
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That is your right.

MY GUESS: In the not too distant future, the kind of capitalism we currently practice will be as dead as the dinosaurs...and the system that will replace it will MUCH MORE CLOSELY resemble socialism than this capitalism we have now.

You are correct, CW...I am NOT a millennial. I won't see it. But my guess is that lots of people now alive will.
 
Frank Apisa said:
That is your right.

MY GUESS: In the not too distant future, the kind of capitalism we currently practice will be as dead as the dinosaurs...and the system that will replace it will MUCH MORE CLOSELY resemble socialism than this capitalism we have now.

You are correct, CW...I am NOT a millennial. I won't see it. But my guess is that lots of people now alive will.
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You've seen socialism tried throughout your life and it has not worked. There are progressives in the U.S. who want us to be more like Sweden, Denway, Norway etc. and even those countries have free markets. They have higher taxes and a bigger safety net but they have free markets. Their governments don't own the means of production and try to compete with the top businesses in their country and the world.

If you want state controlled capitalism like China say goodbye to democracy if you are ok with that trade off.

Edit: And you can look in the past when Sweden, Norway, etc. tried to go a more socialist path and the harm it did to their economy. They had to 'switch' back to a more free market structure.
 
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cawacko said:
You've seen socialism tried throughout your life and it has not worked. There are progressives in the U.S. who want us to be more like Sweden, Denway, Norway etc. and even those countries have free markets. They have higher taxes and a bigger safety net but they have free markets. Their governments don't own the means of production and try to compete with the top businesses in their country and the world.

If you want state controlled capitalism like China say goodbye to democracy if you are ok with that trade off.
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Do you think Private Enterprise/Government Shareholder can't operate under a Democratic Western-style Government?
 
cawacko said:
You've seen socialism tried throughout your life and it has not worked. There are progressives in the U.S. who want us to be more like Sweden, Denway, Norway etc. and even those countries have free markets. They have higher taxes and a bigger safety net but they have free markets. Their governments don't own the means of production and try to compete with the top businesses in their country and the world.

If you want state controlled capitalism like China say goodbye to democracy if you are ok with that trade off.

Edit: And you can look in the past when Sweden, Norway, etc. tried to go a more socialist path and the harm it did to their economy. They had to 'switch' back to a more free market structure.
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"The Nordic model comprises the economic and social policies as well as typical cultural practices common to the Nordic countries (Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden).[1] This includes a comprehensive welfare state and multi-level collective bargaining,[2] with a high percentage of the workforce unionised and a large percentage of the population employed by the public sector (roughly 30% of the work force).[3] The Nordic model began to gain attention after World War II.[4][5]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_model
 
cawacko said:
You've seen socialism tried throughout your life and it has not worked. There are progressives in the U.S. who want us to be more like Sweden, Denway, Norway etc. and even those countries have free markets. They have higher taxes and a bigger safety net but they have free markets. Their governments don't own the means of production and try to compete with the top businesses in their country and the world.

If you want state controlled capitalism like China say goodbye to democracy if you are ok with that trade off.

Edit: And you can look in the past when Sweden, Norway, etc. tried to go a more socialist path and the harm it did to their economy. They had to 'switch' back to a more free market structure.
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"The Norwegian state as shareholder"
https://www.equinor.com/en/about-us/corporate-governance/the-norwegian-state-as-shareholder.html

"With a holding of 67%, the Norwegian state is the main shareholder in Statoil. The owner interest is managed by the Ministry of Petroleum and Energy. The Norwegian State is eager to communicate its expectations to companies in which it has interests, and to communicate to society how the state is to act as owner. "
 
cawacko said:
You've seen socialism tried throughout your life and it has not worked. There are progressives in the U.S. who want us to be more like Sweden, Denway, Norway etc. and even those countries have free markets. They have higher taxes and a bigger safety net but they have free markets. Their governments don't own the means of production and try to compete with the top businesses in their country and the world.

If you want state controlled capitalism like China say goodbye to democracy if you are ok with that trade off.

Edit: And you can look in the past when Sweden, Norway, etc. tried to go a more socialist path and the harm it did to their economy. They had to 'switch' back to a more free market structure.
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Would you have a problem with the US Government acquiring a 10% stake in Boeing to keep it as a strategic American asset?
 
Jack said:
"Kudlow Floats U.S. Government Equity Stakes in Companies Helped"
https://www.msn.com/en-us/finance/m...equity-stakes-in-companies-helped/ar-BB11omxN

"(Bloomberg) -- The White House’s top economic adviser, Larry Kudlow, said the administration may consider asking for an equity stake in corporations that want coronavirus aid from taxpayers."
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In a time of economic crisis that is no fault of business, I might be. I would have to see the details. Right now there are just a lot of ideas being floated. Nothing to get all whacked out about.

But Kudlow cautioned that the idea was just one of many, and that the ultimate form of the coronavirus stimulus legislation would depend on what emerged from negotiations with Congress. “This thing is one day at a time,” he said.
 
Frank Apisa said:
Short answer: Yes.

Longer answer: Yeah, it would be a start in the right direction for some industries...LOTS of them.

The federal government should start by becoming shareholders...but should aim at being COMPETITORS of businesses. There are some businesses that the government will never do as good as private enterprise. But in areas like healthcare, for instance, I much prefer government as the primary provider.

I'd love to see the government compete with the private sector on distribution of goods also. A federal enterprise that competes with Amazon would be wonderful.
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When the gubment is invested in one company, don't their competitors then become the gubments competitors as well??:thinking:
 
Truth Detector said:
In a time of economic crisis that is no fault of business, I might be. I would have to see the details. Right now there are just a lot of ideas being floated. Nothing to get all whacked out about.

But Kudlow cautioned that the idea was just one of many, and that the ultimate form of the coronavirus stimulus legislation would depend on what emerged from negotiations with Congress. “This thing is one day at a time,” he said.
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Some countries have 'targeted' businesses that they call 'Champions'. They use these businesses to further the aims of the State (if it helps, think of Saudi Aramco).
The question is: Should the US Government adopt a similar Policy? (Using Boeing as an Example)
 
Jack said:
Some countries have 'targeted' businesses that they call 'Champions'. They use these businesses to further the aims of the State (if it helps, think of Saudi Aramco).
The question is: Should the US Government adopt a similar Policy? (Using Boeing as an Example)
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Was my statement confusing to you the first time?
 
Jack said:
"The Norwegian state as shareholder"
https://www.equinor.com/en/about-us/corporate-governance/the-norwegian-state-as-shareholder.html

"With a holding of 67%, the Norwegian state is the main shareholder in Statoil. The owner interest is managed by the Ministry of Petroleum and Energy. The Norwegian State is eager to communicate its expectations to companies in which it has interests, and to communicate to society how the state is to act as owner. "
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That's not what Frank is talking about. He's not saying the U.S. Government should become a shareholder of Amazon, he's saying the U.S. Government should set up an entity to compete with Amazon.
 
cawacko said:
That's not what Frank is talking about. He's not saying the U.S. Government should become a shareholder of Amazon, he's saying the U.S. Government should set up an entity to compete with Amazon.
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It's a Discussion thread. We all have different opinions. My (meaning me, Jack) has an opinion that is similar to a 'Sovereign Wealth Fund'.

"A sovereign wealth fund (SWF), sovereign investment fund, or social wealth fund is a state-owned investment fund that invests in real and financial assets such as stocks, bonds, real estate, precious metals, or in alternative investments such as private equity fund or hedge funds. Sovereign wealth funds invest globally. Most SWFs are funded by revenues from commodity exports or from foreign-exchange reserves held by the central bank. By historic convention, the United States' Social Security Trust Fund, with US$2.8 trillion of assets in 2014, and similar vehicles like Japan Post Bank's JP¥200 trillion of holdings, are not considered sovereign wealth funds."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_wealth_fund

I would support a joint effort by Government and Private Enterprise to ensure the US maintains a Technological advantage (like in 5G) over China. China has been doing this for years and is going to replace the US as a Global Leader. Time to stop with the 'name-calling' (that's socialism) and start with what works to keep America First.
 
RB 60 said:
Was the WWII effort socialism? Even International Harvester (A damn tractor company!) made M1 Garands for the Army.
And Ford made bombers, so many bombers some said it was Ford Motor Company that won WWII. Was that socialism?
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Did the federal government own stock in Ford in WW2
 
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