Should we increase visas for tech workers?

The current system for work visas is a mess of red-tape. It could be streamlined very easily.

I have no idea why this president would be motivated to do it, since NO president has done it. No democrat nor republican president has done shit about illegal immigration.

And as far as your "I get it", you obviously don't.

You certainly aren't saying that we have 11 million illegals here because of the current visa system are you?

These are the arguments I hear about why we should ignore our immigration laws, and let's be honest about it, regardless what justifications you come up with you are asking us to ignore our immigrations laws and telling those who are trying to come here legally to fuck off

1) they are already here, so we are powerless to stop it, therefore we should reward their lawbreaking and welcome with open arms and do nothing about attracting other law breakers
2) they are doing low skill, low wage jobs that Americans don't want to do despite 23 million unemployed. So instead of motivating our own workforce to get off of their lazy asses and go to work, we will just bring in some foreigners to do it for em so they can stay on unemployment, welfare and whatever gobblement program is sustaining them in laziness
3) the GOP must support this because Romney lost the Hispanic vote by 71% and those Hispanics are just lining up to vote for the GOP if they would only cave on this one issue and the democrats are going to stand by and let it happen

I think that about covers it all. Yeah, I do get it.
 
We have an effective tourist programme, often taken advantage of by the Irish who are prone to overstays.

A southern border that creates employment for thousands of federal employees.
A northern border where the same people can relax as retirement nears.

Work visas have a fixed term of one year, and are renewed each year, renewal can be denied at any time.

Different rules apply to different nations.
There are very very few Mexican illegals.

Go to New York, a "sanctuary" state. No illegal mexicans there, retard. You are the new official most ignorant forum member.
 
You certainly aren't saying that we have 11 million illegals here because of the current visa system are you?

These are the arguments I hear about why we should ignore our immigration laws, and let's be honest about it, regardless what justifications you come up with you are asking us to ignore our immigrations laws and telling those who are trying to come here legally to fuck off

1) they are already here, so we are powerless to stop it, therefore we should reward their lawbreaking and welcome with open arms and do nothing about attracting other law breakers
2) they are doing low skill, low wage jobs that Americans don't want to do despite 23 million unemployed. So instead of motivating our own workforce to get off of their lazy asses and go to work, we will just bring in some foreigners to do it for em so they can stay on unemployment, welfare and whatever gobblement program is sustaining them in laziness
3) the GOP must support this because Romney lost the Hispanic vote by 71% and those Hispanics are just lining up to vote for the GOP if they would only cave on this one issue and the democrats are going to stand by and let it happen

I think that about covers it all. Yeah, I do get it.

I said you didn't get it because it sounded as if you thought I was saying what I did because the GOP is now courting the hispanic vote. I have been saying the same thing for years.

Also, there is some reality to the claim that the immigrant workers do work no one else wants. I have seen companies try and hire labor and be unable to keep workers. In fact, a company I worked with did it a few years ago. We needed 2 crews in PA to dig holes and trenches. Nothing deeper than about 40", but it is tough work. Ran an ad and got over 100 responses. Starting calling people in for interviews and only 30 came in for the interview. Ended up hiring most of them over the next few months. Only 2 guys showed up for more than the first 2 days. The starting pay was $11 an hour with good benefits. No one wanted it.

Our subcontractors had the same issues. And when you contrast that with the work the hispanics do, it is plain to see that there is a niche for the immigrant workers.
 
Go to New York, a "sanctuary" state. No illegal mexicans there, retard. You are the new official most ignorant forum member.
Mmmmm your post seems to be completely unrelated to the post you are responding to.

I pointed out a few clear facts about the lack of knowledge of immigration issues shared by many in the USA.
I also noted that their are very few illegal Mexicans.

You are perhaps the most ignorant person I have ever met.

Go change your pants.
 
Mmmmm your post seems to be completely unrelated to the post you are responding to.

I pointed out a few clear facts about the lack of knowledge of immigration issues shared by many in the USA.
I also noted that their are very few illegal Mexicans.

You are perhaps the most ignorant person I have ever met.

Go change your pants.

Are you actually fucking retarded? There are 11.5 million illegals in the US. 60% of them are Mexican. Your statement couldn't possibly be more incorrect.
 
We have an effective tourist programme, often taken advantage of by the Irish who are prone to overstays.

.

HAHAHHA.

I am half Irish, but I am not into that stuff at all (not for my Italian half either), so this stuff does nothing for me either way usually, but now that I know that it infuriates Billy, I find it funny.
 
Go to New York, a "sanctuary" state. No illegal mexicans there, retard. You are the new official most ignorant forum member.

LOL Yeah, there are lots of immigrants from Mexico here. I don't know their status, but we have a large population of people from Mexico.
 
I said you didn't get it because it sounded as if you thought I was saying what I did because the GOP is now courting the hispanic vote. I have been saying the same thing for years.

Also, there is some reality to the claim that the immigrant workers do work no one else wants. I have seen companies try and hire labor and be unable to keep workers. In fact, a company I worked with did it a few years ago. We needed 2 crews in PA to dig holes and trenches. Nothing deeper than about 40", but it is tough work. Ran an ad and got over 100 responses. Starting calling people in for interviews and only 30 came in for the interview. Ended up hiring most of them over the next few months. Only 2 guys showed up for more than the first 2 days. The starting pay was $11 an hour with good benefits. No one wanted it.

Our subcontractors had the same issues. And when you contrast that with the work the hispanics do, it is plain to see that there is a niche for the immigrant workers.

I have a lot to say about this, but I can't talk about employment issues on this board.
 
seems upside down to me......we have college graduates mowing lawns because we don't have any "middle class" jobs any more.......and illegal immigrants are coming here to work as busboys and janitors......I say issue green cards to anyone who can get sponsored by an employer, but the employer is required to pay them enough to not end up on welfare plus full healthcare, plus an additional $1/hour surcharge to the government to finance the system.......
 
I said you didn't get it because it sounded as if you thought I was saying what I did because the GOP is now courting the hispanic vote. I have been saying the same thing for years.

Also, there is some reality to the claim that the immigrant workers do work no one else wants. I have seen companies try and hire labor and be unable to keep workers. In fact, a company I worked with did it a few years ago. We needed 2 crews in PA to dig holes and trenches. Nothing deeper than about 40", but it is tough work. Ran an ad and got over 100 responses. Starting calling people in for interviews and only 30 came in for the interview. Ended up hiring most of them over the next few months. Only 2 guys showed up for more than the first 2 days. The starting pay was $11 an hour with good benefits. No one wanted it.

Our subcontractors had the same issues. And when you contrast that with the work the hispanics do, it is plain to see that there is a niche for the immigrant workers.

So you are saying that we have people here in the United States where we have 23 million unemployed who would rather be unemployed than make $11/hour. Now the logic would dictate that they can make at least $11/hour or more doing nothing than dig that hole. So maybe we fix that problem instead of violating our laws.

Seems logical to me, but hey if we want to flood our country with non assimilated, low educated, low wage workers, I don't see what the hell could go wrong with that.

I mean, I am looking at the results of the last amnesty program pushed by Teddy Kennedy and signed by Reagan that was supposed to prevent illegal immigration and that worked so well we are trying to fix it again.
 
Are you actually fucking retarded? There are 11.5 million illegals in the US. 60% of them are Mexican. Your statement couldn't possibly be more incorrect.
Prove your claims.

I live in a city with the highest number of Central American illegal immigrants in New England.

Many refer to them as Mexican.

Speaking Spanish does not make you Mexican.

Illegals come from dozens of different countries.

Show me some viable statistics.

The IIC in Boston have helped tens of thousands of illegal immigrants over the years.

Less than 10% are Mexican.
 
So you are saying that we have people here in the United States where we have 23 million unemployed who would rather be unemployed than make $11/hour. Now the logic would dictate that they can make at least $11/hour or more doing nothing than dig that hole. So maybe we fix that problem instead of violating our laws.

Seems logical to me, but hey if we want to flood our country with non assimilated, low educated, low wage workers, I don't see what the hell could go wrong with that.

I mean, I am looking at the results of the last amnesty program pushed by Teddy Kennedy and signed by Reagan that was supposed to prevent illegal immigration and that worked so well we are trying to fix it again.

I am saying that several companies have tried to hire american workers to avoid the hassles. But have been unable to find workers willing to do the work, to say nothing of being able to do the work nearly as well as the hispanic workers.
 
Yeah but it isn't quite working like tha is it?

In 1986 we were told that is we gave 1.3 million illegals amnesty we would never have to do this again.

Now we are giving 11!million illegals amnesty. So, I ask. Why even have immigration laws? They obviously mean nothing.

And I thought you would be a little better than using a typical left wing argument of "are you against immigration". That is a specious argument.

How people think that being against illegal immigration means one is against all immigration is the most intellectually dishonest argument one could make and to be honest I thought you were better than that

I'm not for illegal immigration. People who apply for H-1B visas are not illegal immigrants. They are coming to the U.S. legally. And I'm not making specious left-wing argument by asking the question if you are against immigration if you are against work visas into this country. Maybe I should have more specifically, are you against people coming to this country with legal work visas issued by our government?

And the issue of H-1B visas, to me at least, has nothing to do with politics and Republicans trying to win hispanic votes. My guess is a fair number of these H-1B visas probably go to people from India. The issue is about growing the U.S. economy.
 
I've always been a big believer in wanting the best and brightest in the world to come to the U.S. so I support incresing H-1B visas. It seems the argument against increasing these visas is that it drives down wages and hurts the middle class. I'm curious what people think.



New effort to increase visas for tech workers as high as 300,000

The tech industry, one of the most powerful players in the immigration debate, threw down its marker Tuesday with a bipartisan stand-alone bill to increase H-1B visas for skilled workers from 65,000 to 115,000 with an escalator that could bring total visas to 300,000 a year.

Silicon Valley has been chafing under H-1B caps since the last comprehensive bill collapsed in 2006. Industry leaders have long argued that a green card should be stapled to every diploma earned by a foreign student in math or engineering, on the grounds that the U.S. is losing talented people educated in its own universities. Despite support from California House Democrats Anna Eshoo (Palo Alto) and Zoe Lofgren (San Jose), the effort has been stymied by stiff resistance from some U.S. tech workers and bipartisan opponents in Congress who say the industry just wants cheap labor.

The bill would also “allow dual intent for foreign students at U.S. colleges and universities to provide the certainty they need to ensure their future in the United States.” And it would exempt from the employment-based green card cap dependents of employment-based visa holders, U.S. STEM (science, technology, engineering, math) advanced degree holders, “persons with extraordinary ability” and “outstanding professors and researchers.”

This year’s model of an H1b visa increase is called I-Squared, or the Immigration Innovation Act, sponsored by Sens. Orrin Hatch (R-Utah), Amy Klobuchar (D-Minn.), Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) and Chris Coons (D-Del.).

The authors say the bill is critical to U.S. competitiveness in the global economy. In addition to increasing H-1B visas to 115,000 a year, the bill would create an automatic escalator “so that the cap can adjust – up or down – to the demands of the economy” with a total ceiling of 300,000.

Depending on how quickly the annual cap is reached, mini-escalators are included that would provide as many as 20,000 additional visas immediately. Additional sponsors include Richard Blumenthal (D-Conn.), Jeff Flake (R-Ariz.), Dean Heller (R-Nev.), John Hoeven (R-N.D.), Jeanne Shaheen (D-N.H.), and Mark Warner (D-Va,).

Whether 2013 will be a replay of the immigration failure of 2006, we shall know by summer. The various factions are suiting up for well-worn roles. Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., will be pushing for expanded temporary slots for the farm workers who are essential to California’s produce industry. The bigger bipartisan Senate framework introduced Monday by the Gang of Eight has placeholders for both tech and farm workers. Florida Republican Marco Rubio is one of the Gang and also a sponsor of the separate tech worker bill, giving it added juice.

Pew just released a new estimate on the total U.S. immigrant population, tallying a record 40.4 million in 2011, or 13 percent of the population, based on an analysis of Census data by the Pew Hispanic Center, a project of the Pew Research Center.

UPDATE: Obama gave a plug to the tech side in Las Vegas Tuesday: “Right now, there are brilliant students from all over the world sitting in classrooms at our top universities. They’re earning degrees in the fields of the future, like engineering and computer science. But once they finish school, once they earn that diploma, there’s a good chance they’ll have to leave our country. Think about that.

“We’re giving them all the skills they need to figure that out, but then we’re going to turn around and tell them to start that business and create those jobs in China or India or Mexico or someplace else. That’s not how you grow new industries in America. That’s how you give new industries to our competitors. ”


http://blog.sfgate.com/nov05electio...ase-visas-for-tech-workers-as-high-as-300000/
No freaking shit it does. When I was working at OSU as a research assistant in the materials engineering depertment when several of the American students graduated in that department they we're offered entry level positions at around $60,000/year (this was in the mid 90's). Several of the Asian students were' made offers to when they graduated. According to their student visa's they had six months after graduating to find a US job or they would have to return home. Considering starting pay for an entry level engineering job in India, China, SE Asia was around $500 to $800/month they were take any reasonable job offers. So they were getting offers of around $30,000 to $35,000 per year which indeed does drive down the wages in the tech market.

I've seen the same happen in Nursing. Wages for RN's went down dramatically in the 2000's as compared to the 1990's due to a huge influx of nurses immigrating to the US.
 
I'm not for illegal immigration. People who apply for H-1B visas are not illegal immigrants. They are coming to the U.S. legally. And I'm not making specious left-wing argument by asking the question if you are against immigration if you are against work visas into this country. Maybe I should have more specifically, are you against people coming to this country with legal work visas issued by our government?

And the issue of H-1B visas, to me at least, has nothing to do with politics and Republicans trying to win hispanic votes. My guess is a fair number of these H-1B visas probably go to people from India. The issue is about growing the U.S. economy.

Fair points as we are obviously talking about two separate things related to immigration. No I am not against H1B visas per se and to be honest I don't know enough about them.

What I am discussing are the proposals in the table today to allow amnesty to people who broke our laws
 
depressing wages is just one disadvantage of the H1-B. The other is depriving Americans of jobs that they are quite qualified to do.
Not to mention depriving American students seats in those academic programs at our Univiersities. I saw that quite a bit too when I was a Research Asst at OSU. A qualified American student would get bumped for a better qualifed foreign student (at least on paper). I thought that was pretty fucked up and it still goes on. It's not like the American students weren't qualified either.
 
I'm not sure how the law works. I had two ex co-workers who were here on visas and they were contacted by the government before their visas expired and told they had to renew or leave the country. One renewed and one went back to Canada. I don't know if that is the norm for how the system works or not.
It depends on whether or not you are a permanent resident. If you're a permenent resident (green card) you have to renew every 10 years or go home. Many opt to apply for US Citizenship before the 10 years is up, which moots renewing.
 
Not to mention depriving American students seats in those academic programs at our Univiersities. I saw that quite a bit too when I was a Research Asst at OSU. A qualified American student would get bumped for a better qualifed foreign student (at least on paper). I thought that was pretty fucked up and it still goes on. It's not like the American students weren't qualified either.

I wish someone would make up my mind. One minute we need them to do jobs Americans won't or can't do and the next they are swiping jobs Americans can and want to do.
 
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