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Well, I went to see it last night. It left me feeling very frustrated and with an overwhelming desire to live in France. I wish I could say I thought it was going to excite a change in this country, but I don't believe that.

It's Moore's best film however, and he was very smart to focus on Americans who do have health insurance, and therefore believe they are safe. They aren't of course, but they won't find that out until they get cancer.
 
It is a very poor way to manage health care.

Insurance companies have no reasons to actually help people get care ,they have every reason to deny care.

How anyone can think this is a good way to deliver care is blind to reality.
 
I'm very much looking forward to seeing this: we're planning on doing the theatre thing, in fact. Moore was on Larry King last night and, while I really despise Larry King, we watched anyway. Moore's points were, as usual, incisive.

We're far gone down the road of mindless nationalism in this country. Not so far along that we can't turn back, I think, but our collective blindness and capacity for self-deception are truly frightening.
 
I'm very much looking forward to seeing this: we're planning on doing the theatre thing, in fact. Moore was on Larry King last night and, while I really despise Larry King, we watched anyway. Moore's points were, as usual, incisive.

We're far gone down the road of mindless nationalism in this country. Not so far along that we can't turn back, I think, but our collective blindness and capacity for self-deception are truly frightening.
 
OrnotBitwise said:
I'm very much looking forward to seeing this: we're planning on doing the theatre thing, in fact. Moore was on Larry King last night and, while I really despise Larry King, we watched anyway. Moore's points were, as usual, incisive.

We're far gone down the road of mindless nationalism in this country. Not so far along that we can't turn back, I think, but our collective blindness and capacity for self-deception are truly frightening.
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Hi you, glad to see you.

I'm just so tired of people being so stupid.

I just hope that people other than our type, the people who really need to be reached, go and see this. The problem is even if we had mass awareness, I'm afraid that at this point, there is so much money involved, we wouldn't get meaningful change anyway.
 
Darla said:
Hi you, glad to see you.

I'm just so tired of people being so stupid.

I just hope that people other than our type, the people who really need to be reached, go and see this. The problem is even if we had mass awareness, I'm afraid that at this point, there is so much money involved, we wouldn't get meaningful change anyway.
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Glad to see you too. :)

The biggest problem, in my opinion, isn't the healthcare system per se. It's the insurance industry that sucks. That's "sucks" as in vampiric parasitism. Forget garlic and crucifixes though: what we need are anti-trust suits and public health insurance.

Unfortunately, even people who know better -- like Moore -- seem to prefer to talk about a "healthcare cirisis" instead of an insurance crisis. I guess it's sexier or something.
 
OrnotBitwise said:
Glad to see you too. :)

The biggest problem, in my opinion, isn't the healthcare system per se. It's the insurance industry that sucks. That's "sucks" as in vampiric parasitism. Forget garlic and crucifixes though: what we need are anti-trust suits and public health insurance.

Unfortunately, even people who know better -- like Moore -- seem to prefer to talk about a "healthcare cirisis" instead of an insurance crisis. I guess it's sexier or something.
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I thought you left the site after taking such amazing beatings from AHZ. :pke:
 
Darla said:
Well, I went to see it last night. It left me feeling very frustrated and with an overwhelming desire to live in France. I wish I could say I thought it was going to excite a change in this country, but I don't believe that.

It's Moore's best film however, and he was very smart to focus on Americans who do have health insurance, and therefore believe they are safe. They aren't of course, but they won't find that out until they get cancer.
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I loved that end part where the worker got 6 months paid sick leave from the doctor just for asking, then took a vacation in the riveria. No wonder France's economy is shit.

But anyway, their healthcare system itself is top notch. But only because it's on of the few in Europe that isn't government run, only government insured. Canada's healthcare system is better than our's, also, but that's only if you're at the top of the waiting list, which you'll never be.

Also, whenever he went to Cuba that was somewhat of a scam. He PAID the Cubans extra money to give them top-notch healthcare. Average Cubans don't get that kind of healthcare. Cuba's actually pretty famous for it's health tourism industry.

Then again, even the normal care Cubans are given is better than most of the free market systems in Latin America. But I don't believe the Cuban healthcare system for normal Cubans actually ranks above the American one.
 
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Desh said:
It is a very poor way to manage health care.

Insurance companies have no reasons to actually help people get care ,they have every reason to deny care.

How anyone can think this is a good way to deliver care is blind to reality.
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Naturally, insurance companies have to have strict limits on how they give out money, or healthcare would be even more expensive than it is now. It's just that they rarely make the limits they put on people apparent. It's fucking false advertising, is what it is. Hurricane Katrina, for instance, made this problem apparent. People got "hurricane insurance", which didn't cover tidal surge, even though the vast majority of hurricane damage is water damage. It's fucking criminal to call an insurance policy "hurricane insurance" and then not cover the majority of hurricane damages. At least call it "Hurricane wind insurance". Anyway, I think they should be sued blind for false advertising.
 
I saw it last night too. It showed us the common sense way some other countries provide health care for all. There, Doctors get a bonus when his patient becomes healthier. Here, Doctors don't heal certain people because the Insurance agency says DECLINED.

There, everyone gets taken care of, no matter what.

Here, only the rich get good health care. Here a guy has to choose which finger get sewn back on when two of his fingers are cut off.

There, a guy gets ALL his fingers sewn back on, for free.

Here, the insurance companies make a huge profit by denying people health care, people that have paid for health care, but do not receive it. They are stealing.

There, no one makes a profit and the doctor has a million dollar house, two nice cars and a flat screen TV.

Here the insurance blood suckers AND the Doctors live in 2 or 3 million dollar homes, have 4 or 5 cars and a few flat screen TVs too. While people suffer and die needlessly.
 
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Viola, wouldn't the doctor be making a profit then?

Michael Moore's logic is simple and inconclusive. He gets to his conclusions mainly by selectively choosing facts. Using his tactics I could easily paint a bad picture of any healthcare system in the world. Canada has good healthcare. It's just that you'll never get any of it. And private healthcare is banned.
 
Watermark said:
I loved that end part where the worker got 6 months paid sick leave from the doctor just for asking, then took a vacation in the riveria. No wonder France's economy is shit.

But anyway, their healthcare system itself is top notch. But only because it's on of the few in Europe that isn't government run, only government insured. Canada's healthcare system is better than our's, also, but that's only if you're at the top of the waiting list, which you'll never be.

Also, whenever he went to Cuba that was somewhat of a scam. He PAID the Cubans extra money to give them top-notch healthcare. Average Cubans don't get that kind of healthcare. Cuba's actually pretty famous for it's health tourism industry.

Then again, even the normal care Cubans are given is better than most of the free market systems in Latin America. But I don't believe the Cuban healthcare system for normal Cubans actually ranks above the American one.
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I don't know anything about him paying the Cubans, but I did assume they gave them great care because it's a kick in the face to the US, and good PR.

No, I think Cuba ranks 39th, and we rank 37th, so you're correct, we're above Cuba. Yeah for us! We squeaked out two notches above Cuba. Damn, is this a great country, or what?
 
We were going to see it today, but the only theater near here that's playing it is the ghetto one where people get their cars broken into.

I'd like to see it.
 
Darla said:
I don't know anything about him paying the Cubans, but I did assume they gave them great care because it's a kick in the face to the US, and good PR.

No, I think Cuba ranks 39th, and we rank 37th, so you're correct, we're above Cuba. Yeah for us! We squeaked out two notches above Cuba. Damn, is this a great country, or what?
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Healthcare among developed nations is generally about equal for each nation. But the WHO mentions one of the things they judge as "how it is paid for" (I assume that this means that if it's "free" you're ranked higher), and that probably accounts for the vast majority of the difference between us and the other nations. The only thing wrong with our healthcare system is that it's too damn expensive. The actually quality is on par with any one of the nations the WHO partisanly ranks higher than us.
 
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