So now that the APP FARCE has been exposed...

D

Dixie - In Memoriam

New member
When I first learned of the new ABOVE Plain Politics forum, I was a bit skeptical, but I thought... okay, I will give it a shot. After all, "above the fray" conversation sounded appealing to me, after wading through page after page of ad homs and insults with no real debate happening in the regular forum, perhaps this would be a refreshing change. So I posted a nice little civil thread, and it took about 2 hours for ib1 and Waterhead to lob the first ad homs and insults. I politely asked not to be called names, and stated that I found it offensive. (For the record, would all those who don't find it offensive to be called a retard and and idiot, kindly step forward?)

The "rules" of the new forum state clearly, that petty insults are a violation of the rules if the other party finds them offensive. It also indicates the "spirit" of the new forum is to encourage a more civil atmosphere and discussions. Grind has made it clear he doesn't intend to enforce the rules regarding offensive comments, so the "NEW" forum is basically the same as this one. The only discernible difference is his ability to ban you when he feels like someone had "stepped over the line" ...in HIS opinion, not YOURS!

This is precisely the kind of egotistical self-aggrandizing bullshit that prompted many to leave the old "FullPolitics" forum and come here! This juvenile 'need' for people like Grind to feel important in their pathetic little world, and invoke their trumped up authority on others. For weeks, we have seen the threads about "when to report a post" and "when to not report a post" and then the "rules for posting" in the new forum, and all this hoopla and hooey about how this "new" forum would be "ABOVE" all the offensive insults and bullshit we put up with here. And for what? So we can have Grinds own personal little forum where he can play dictator!

Enforce the goddamn rules YOU made, or take that farce of a bullshit forum down! Either put up or fucking shut up! If you want to make a forum where insults and offensive irrelevant commentary is not welcome, DO IT! But don't PRETEND you are doing that, then wuss out and claim that's not what you intended!
 
guys remember it's just overdramtic pmsy dixie.

save yourselves the waste of time and just realize he doesn't know how to read properly.

that is all.
 
I know how to read just fine. You don't know how to enforce your own rules.

I have a suggestion for a revision of the APP rules...

1. If you post something Grind doesn't like, it will be deleted.
2. If you insult someone Grind likes, you will be banned.
3. If you insult someone Grind doesn't like, Grind will ask you to knock it off.
4. This is Grinds personal ego trip playground, what Grind says, goes!
5. If you question Grind in any way, expect to get negative rep points!
6. All rules are subject to the discretion of Grind, and can change without notice.

Enjoy your experience!
 
Dixie said:
I know how to read just fine. You don't know how to enforce your own rules.

I have a suggestion for a revision of the APP rules...

1. If you post something Grind doesn't like, it will be deleted.
2. If you insult someone Grind likes, you will be banned.
3. If you insult someone Grind doesn't like, Grind will ask you to knock it off.
4. This is Grinds personal ego trip playground, what Grind says, goes!
5. If you question Grind in any way, expect to get negative rep points!
6. All rules are subject to the discretion of Grind, and can change without notice.

Enjoy your experience!
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I have noticed that about Grind. He obviously has his favorites, when he should be neutral.
 
I have to say, if they want a forum above the fray, removing constant posts where your being called a retard would be ideal. Whether or not you take issue with it, it just does not encourage debate. ib1 was excessive with it. Nearly every other post called you a retard or said your argument was retarded. I wish more people would just shut up if they don't want to argue something 'retarded'. But, this circle jerk of twirps always feel the need to get the attention they don't receive at home, here.
 
DigitalDave said:
I have to say, if they want a forum above the fray, removing constant posts where your being called a retard would be ideal. Whether or not you take issue with it, it just does not encourage debate. ib1 was excessive with it. Nearly every other post called you a retard or said your argument was retarded. I wish more people would just shut up if they don't want to argue something 'retarded'. But, this circle jerk of twirps always feel the need to get the attention they don't receive at home, here.
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It's been fixed. Nothing is instantaneous.
 
This subforum has been created to encourage a higher level of conversation and debate. This subforum inherits all site wide rules, and has some additional caveats:

1) No slurs directed at an individual based on race, ethnicity, sex, or sexual orientation

2) No Personal Information

3) No harassment or intimidation of other members
- This is to be defined as hostility and abuse outside the bounds of petty name calling that is clearly bothersome and uninvited by the receiving party.

Penalty for all of the above is a month ban from the APP Forum. NO EXCEPTIONS. Repeated violations may result in a PERMANENT ban from APP.

Additionally:

Repeat posts, excessive use of marquee tags, trolling, posts spammed with a multitude of smileys, or posts that contain little to no valuable content may or may not be pruned, modified, or deleted through the discretion of the admins. However, it will not result in the banning of the offender.

Petty name calling is still technically allowed, as long as it is not to excess, and is made in jest and it's known to not truly bother the other individual. Keeping in mind however, that seeing as this could be subjective, such posts may be pruned, modified, or deleted.

(jpp.com reserves the right to alter the rules at any time, by revising this post.)
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so in reality.....that forum is no different that any other forum on this board

LMAO
 
Damocles said:
It's been fixed. Nothing is instantaneous.
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I saw that, and glad you did the right thing. Good job....

Also, I would suggest some sort of system to prevent it in the future so you don't have to constantly watch the board. Something like a suspension policy from that board. Rather than a total ban, after three threads of obvious excessive name calling, issue a warning. After a warning has been issued, a 5th thread with excessive name calling warrants a suspension. I'm not a big fan of cencorship but I think providing the option to people was a good call, it's just going to be a pain for you guys to monitor, so you may need to establish a good rule set to prevent abuse. I like that there are multiple boards for people, and if you want or need any more help, I'm willing to on my limited time.
 
again, to everyone else that wasn't really pay attention. Watermark and ib1 started calling dixie a retard and "crybaby." This falls under petty name calling, which is allowed. If it bothers somebody, the posts will be edited. This was in the rules from the beginning. As such, I did edit said posts, just as I said I would in the rules.

Dixie however wants ib1 and watermark banned from APP for calling him a crybaby. That's never what the rules stipulated, and as such.. here we are with the shit conniption.
 
Grind said:
again, to everyone else that wasn't really pay attention. Watermark and ib1 started calling dixie a retard and "crybaby." This falls under petty name calling, which is allowed. If it bothers somebody, the posts will be edited. This was in the rules from the beginning. As such, I did edit said posts, just as I said I would in the rules.

Dixie however wants ib1 and watermark banned from APP for calling him a crybaby. That's never what the rules stipulated, and as such.. here we are with the shit conniption.
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Just because it states something in the rules, doesn't mean it's productive towards the theme of what you are trying to establish. It's not a shit conniption to have had this brought up, and it shouldnt be hard to see that the rules need to evolve. Don't take it as a stab to your ego if people feel the rules aren't sufficient, or don't understand them completely. I get what the purpose of the board was, and it's obvious there are things that need to be done to get where it needs to be. There are a number of posters here that will do what they can to get attention, and go right up to that line to where it follows the rules, but not cross the line. We have the ability to name-call and tear someone a new ass in a flame war all over this board, but my impression is that the 'Above Plain Politics' board is designed to be for more serious debate without all the bullshit. The rules need tweaked so that it is clear where you want it to go. Don't expect people here to just play nice, there is way too much history and everyone loves a piss-match. Serious threads go no where, and stupid threads like Obama's birth certificate rise to the top.
 
if people feel the rules are insufficient than of course we can have the discussion towards their evolution. I'm all for that.

However, for the issue at hand, such a circumstance does not apply. Dixie wants watermark and ib1 banned from a forum for an infraction they did not commit. That's not going to happen, and it was clearly outlined in the rules why. It would be UNFAIR of me to apply the rules in a different way than what I had previously stated.

If people think the APP forum is useless, or a stupid addition, or in need of a bit of tweaking, that is an entirely different argument.
 
and also APP was never intended to be an uppity stuffy place where people start reporting each other over every minute little borderline insult.

And if that's what people perceive it to be right now, that's going to be changed.
 
Grind said:
if people feel the rules are insufficient than of course we can have the discussion towards their evolution. I'm all for that.

However, for the issue at hand, such a circumstance does not apply. Dixie wants watermark and ib1 banned from a forum for an infraction they did not commit. That's not going to happen, and it was clearly outlined in the rules why. It would be UNFAIR of me to apply the rules in a different way than what I had previously stated.

If people think the APP forum is useless, or a stupid addition, or in need of a bit of tweaking, that is an entirely different argument.
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I don't agree with Dix that they should be banned from that board either, but a name-calling policy should be put into place. Otherwise, you might as well remove the board now, because that's pretty much all people will do.

Take liberty at what that policy is, there are already a couple suggestions thrown out there. There was one earlier saying move the threads that turn into piss-matches over to the flaming board, which I think is a good idea. But I also think you and Damo are going to need a solid set of rules to prevent having to watch that board constantly. You are going to cause yourself some headaches if the only consequence to multiple offenses is to make you more work.
 
it's very likely we are going to be changing some thing around. We just launched the board yesterday, so one could say it's still in beta. A few things are clearly going to have be tweaked, all input is welcome.

The problem is, some want more rules, some want less, it's about finding that balance.

The real problem with banning petty names is all the other smaller problems it creates.

Would one be allowed to say someones idea is stupid? Or that they are being illogical? Or is that too "offensive?"

What if you call some a retard, but it's in jest (like I do with watermark, and I know he's not offended in the slightest, because we are super internet bffs)

I do not WANT a forum where people have to be so high strung as to report to us everytime they are called a "crybaby." It may be low brow to constantly call people names, but it takes a special kind of individual to make it their mission to report every last minute insult.

Lastly, I believe we can still have intelligent debate with a few words thrown in, I don't feel it detracts that much.

The real purpose is to filter out some of the more egregious racial and sexist slurs, the talk about burning peoples houses down, or threats to call a boss at work, and posts that offer no real value, things such as "HAHAHAHAHA rofl LOLOLOLOL"

This is NOT warzone part II.
 
Grind said:
it's very likely we are going to be changing some thing around. We just launched the board yesterday, so one could say it's still in beta. A few things are clearly going to have be tweaked, all input is welcome.

The problem is, some want more rules, some want less, it's about finding that balance.

The real problem with banning petty names is all the other smaller problems it creates.

Would one be allowed to say someones idea is stupid? Or that they are being illogical? Or is that too "offensive?"

What if you call some a retard, but it's in jest (like I do with watermark, and I know he's not offended in the slightest, because we are super internet bffs)

I do not WANT a forum where people have to be so high strung as to report to us everytime they are called a "crybaby." It may be low brow to constantly call people names, but it takes a special kind of individual to make it their mission to report every last minute insult.

Lastly, I believe we can still have intelligent debate with a few words thrown in, I don't feel it detracts that much.

The real purpose is to filter out some of the more egregious racial and sexist slurs, the talk about burning peoples houses down, or threats to call a boss at work, and posts that offer no real value, things such as "HAHAHAHAHA rofl LOLOLOLOL"

This is NOT warzone part II.
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The problem with being thin-skinned about insults and name calling is that there is no line you can draw on this that posters cannot ruin. I can insult someone without calling them names, using profanity or flaming.
 
which is why most of the board has remained the way it's been winterborn, with none of that b.s.

It's almost impossible to stop, so that is why we are inclined to let petty insults be allowed, though discouraged.

Instead we would focus on more egregious stuff, which Ive already outlined.
 
Grind said:
it's very likely we are going to be changing some thing around. We just launched the board yesterday, so one could say it's still in beta. A few things are clearly going to have be tweaked, all input is welcome.

The problem is, some want more rules, some want less, it's about finding that balance.

The real problem with banning petty names is all the other smaller problems it creates.

Would one be allowed to say someones idea is stupid? Or that they are being illogical? Or is that too "offensive?"

What if you call some a retard, but it's in jest (like I do with watermark, and I know he's not offended in the slightest, because we are super internet bffs)

I do not WANT a forum where people have to be so high strung as to report to us everytime they are called a "crybaby." It may be low brow to constantly call people names, but it takes a special kind of individual to make it their mission to report every last minute insult.

Lastly, I believe we can still have intelligent debate with a few words thrown in, I don't feel it detracts that much.

The real purpose is to filter out some of the more egregious racial and sexist slurs, the talk about burning peoples houses down, or threats to call a boss at work, and posts that offer no real value, things such as "HAHAHAHAHA rofl LOLOLOLOL"

This is NOT warzone part II.
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I agree, but I think once its obvious, as it was with Dixie's thread, you just take the action you need to take. I think people will apreciate it that 10 page pissing matches don't take place.
 
Damocles said:
When I first created JPP.com my first thought was to create three interlocking boards, one where normal messageboard play took place, one "above" plain politics board and one "below" plain politics board where all the muckraking and flaming took place. This turned out to be a bit of a stretch. So instead we're looking to create an area on this board where flaming, etc. is not welcome (although the rest of the board remains unchanged).

My first thought on "Above" plain politics would be that we could speak here about strategy and higher-level politics without the detriment of political affiliation, but I realize that is not likely to happen. We have our bias. So the goal is now that this place will be set aside for conversations without trash-talk and trolls.

I hope you will enjoy this new addition, as well as use the newly redacted "War Zone" where the Flame Wars can take place.

Enjoy the board folks, we're here for fun and get to know and learn the opinions of others!
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Now excuse the fuck outta me Grind and Damo, but my understanding of this was, the ABOVE board would be for civil debate and conversation without the name calling and flames. The War Zone is where people can be called "idiot" and "retard" and "crybaby" and threads can turn into flame wars. You should have just been honest about it and said up front, the new board wasn't any different than the old board.

See, what I think you want to do is have a board where you can pick and chose who to ban and for what. If I were to go on APP and call people names and flame, I would be banned, and you would point to your stupid "rules" and claim it is justified. But since you guys obviously like having your ego stroked by people like Waterhead and ib1, you aren't going to enforce those rules on them. Basically, you fucking lied to people, and that is what has me so angry about this. Either give us what you promised, or stop blowing smoke up our ass about wanting something you really don't want.
 
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