So this is what takers do

Shy Guy said:
Interesting thought. So, if we just end the welfare program, those that can't afford to feed themselves/their families do what?
A. Magically find work.
B. Starve to death.
C. Stay on the welfare program.
Click to expand...

4. Rob people in order to feed their family.
 
apple0154 said:
First of all a Socialist State implies the State owns the means of production, the banks, etc. How does that compare to anything Obama is doing?

As for social programs government medical has worked very well in many countries for over half a century. Norway has had a single payer system since 1912. Surely any system that has been operating for a century can not be considered a failed system.

Here's a list of countries that have had government medical for over 40 years.

Norway 1912
New Zealand 1938
Japan 1938
Germany 1941
Belgium 1945
United Kingdom 1948
Kuwait 1950
Sweden 1955
Bahrain 1957
Brunei 1958
Canada 1966
Netherlands 1966
Austria 1967
http://truecostblog.com/2009/08/09/countries-with-universal-healthcare-by-date/

Just think of all the lives that have been saved not to mention all the pain and disabilities that have been eliminated. And then consider the differences between those countries. For example: New Zealand with an area of 103,000 sq mi. and a population of 4.5 million compared with Australia with an area of almost 3 million sq mi. with a population of 22 million. 30 times larger than New Zealand with 5 times the population. Both have government medical showing that the size and population of a country has nothing to do with implementing a government medical plan. Every country that implemented a government medical plan has keep their plan at the insistence of the citizens. What more proof is necessary to show the superiority of government medical?
Click to expand...
They know no better.
Have you ever lived in a country with government controlled healthcare?
I have. It fucking sucks!

Waiting lists, waiting lists to get on waiting lists!
Refusal of treatment.
Calling conditions untreatable, incurable and terminal .

Yet the same conditions are cured in the USA as a matter of routine.

NB, no one dies for a lack of healthcare in the USA!!!!

Best healthcare on earth!!
 
Grecian said:
You mean just suddenly yank the carpet from under people's feet? Sounds pretty harsh, dude. Wouldn't you rather devise a program that would help people help themselves?
Click to expand...
Isn't that what I just proposed?
End welfare, if they are too lazy to work, let em starve!
If there are kids, remove them, give them up for adoption to responsible parents.
 
007 said:
They know no better.
Have you ever lived in a country with government controlled healthcare?
I have. It fucking sucks!

Waiting lists, waiting lists to get on waiting lists!
Refusal of treatment.
Calling conditions untreatable, incurable and terminal .

Yet the same conditions are cured in the USA as a matter of routine.

NB, no one dies for a lack of healthcare in the USA!!!!

Best healthcare on earth!!
Click to expand...

Yes, I have and do live in a country with government health care. I suffered a fractured spine, 6 broken ribs, arm, shoulder, sinuses, jaw and a few other broken bones. After having electrical wires hooked up to my heart to keep it going, a tracheotomy so I could breathe, a spinal fusion using bone from my hip I walked out of the hospital 3 months later. Total cost: Zero. Not one cent. I didn't even see a bill.

If that's second rate medical care I'm OK with it. :)
 
apple0154 said:
Yes, I have and do live in a country with government health care. I suffered a fractured spine, 6 broken ribs, arm, shoulder, sinuses, jaw and a few other broken bones. After having electrical wires hooked up to my heart to keep it going, a tracheotomy so I could breathe, a spinal fusion using bone from my hip I walked out of the hospital 3 months later. Total cost: Zero. Not one cent. I didn't even see a bill.

If that's second rate medical care I'm OK with it. :)
Click to expand...

I am amazed! Still!
 
apple0154 said:
Yes, I have and do live in a country with government health care. I suffered a fractured spine, 6 broken ribs, arm, shoulder, sinuses, jaw and a few other broken bones. After having electrical wires hooked up to my heart to keep it going, a tracheotomy so I could breathe, a spinal fusion using bone from my hip I walked out of the hospital 3 months later. Total cost: Zero. Not one cent. I didn't even see a bill.

If that's second rate medical care I'm OK with it. :)
Click to expand...
Same thing in the USA in an ER.

What happens if you have , let's say a change in your physical well being that could indicate a serious illness?

You present at your primary physician with constipation, what happens?

You get advised to take milk of magnesia and call back in a fortnight.

I get a barrage of tests, x-rays , MRIs, blood tests immediately, on the day, in my primary physicians office!!
Do you get that?

Even better, as a paying customer, I don't have to get in line behind those who never paid!!
 
apple0154 said:
Would you have recommended abortion?
Click to expand...
No more than any other action.
So long as tax payers don't get to pick up the bill, I don't care.

If you have kids, pay for them, you chose to have them!
If you choose abortion, pay for it!
It's called being an adult.
 
007 said:
Same thing in the USA in an ER.

What happens if you have , let's say a change in your physical well being that could indicate a serious illness?

You present at your primary physician with constipation, what happens?

You get advised to take milk of magnesia and call back in a fortnight.
Click to expand...

Wrong guess. There are local clinics where one just walks in. So, if the milk of magnesia does not help I can see a doctor the next day.

I get a barrage of tests, x-rays , MRIs, blood tests immediately, on the day, in my primary physicians office!!
Do you get that?
Click to expand...

No, I don't and I wouldn't want that either. Why would I want unnecessary needles and prodding and trying to pee in a jar and spend hours in a doctor's office when not necessary? It's like taking ones car to a garage because it's misfiring. Do you want the mechanic to start by doing a tune-up or do you want to pay for him to rip the engine apart? Are you a hypochondriac, by any chance?

Even better, as a paying customer, I don't have to get in line behind those who never paid!!
Click to expand...

Hey, if one wants to go to a private clinic, by all means go. No one is stopping you from giving your money to a doctor.
 
007 said:
No more than any other action.
So long as tax payers don't get to pick up the bill, I don't care.

If you have kids, pay for them, you chose to have them!
If you choose abortion, pay for it!
It's called being an adult.
Click to expand...

As a taxpayer you know you'll have to pay for those kids so wouldn't it be prudent, as a taxpayer, to pay for abortion services?

There are taxpayers who don't want to pay for abortions and contraceptives knowing they'll have to pay for the resulting child for the next 18 years. Surely even the dullest among the Right understand paying for contraceptives and abortion is a LOT cheaper than paying to support a person for 18 years. Then we add on the increased likelihood the unwanted child will be involved in criminal activities requiring Police and courts and ......

Just one more example of the Right's inability to think things through. :(
 
apple0154 said:
Wrong guess. There are local clinics where one just walks in. So, if the milk of magnesia does not help I can see a doctor the next day.



No, I don't and I wouldn't want that either. Why would I want unnecessary needles and prodding and trying to pee in a jar and spend hours in a doctor's office when not necessary? It's like taking ones car to a garage because it's misfiring. Do you want the mechanic to start by doing a tune-up or do you want to pay for him to rip the engine apart? Are you a hypochondriac, by any chance?



Hey, if one wants to go to a private clinic, by all means go. No one is stopping you from giving your money to a doctor.
Click to expand...
If you can't afford in the USA, plenty go to the free clinic and wait in line. Just like in a socialised medcine country.
The care is crap, but hey you get what you pay for!

No I'm not, I visit my DR once a year for my annual check up.
Two years ago I attended with a minor issue, causing some difficulty.
I was given a barrage of tests that day.
Diagnosed with a serious condition that early detection and dreatment cured.

In the UK/other nation I would have Been fobbed off repeatedly.

Post diagnosis I was given a list of specialists to research and to pick my preferred one to carry out treatment.
I chose one and called him that day.
An hour later I was in his office discussing the treatment options.
Treatment began the next day.

In a socialised system, I would not be allowed to choose my specialist, and would wait weeks for the first appointment.
Then months to get on the waiting list, then months again to get the treatment!

I know which I prefer!!
 
apple0154 said:
Yes, I have and do live in a country with government health care. I suffered a fractured spine, 6 broken ribs, arm, shoulder, sinuses, jaw and a few other broken bones. After having electrical wires hooked up to my heart to keep it going, a tracheotomy so I could breathe, a spinal fusion using bone from my hip I walked out of the hospital 3 months later. Total cost: Zero. Not one cent. I didn't even see a bill.

If that's second rate medical care I'm OK with it. :)
Click to expand...

Was that from a car accident? If so your medical bills are paid through that
 
apple0154 said:
As a taxpayer you know you'll have to pay for those kids so wouldn't it be prudent, as a taxpayer, to pay for abortion services?

There are taxpayers who don't want to pay for abortions and contraceptives knowing they'll have to pay for the resulting child for the next 18 years. Surely even the dullest among the Right understand paying for contraceptives and abortion is a LOT cheaper than paying to support a person for 18 years. Then we add on the increased likelihood the unwanted child will be involved in criminal activities requiring Police and courts and ......

Just one more example of the Right's inability to think things through. :(
Click to expand...
It's not my responsibility to pay for other people's fuck ups.
They want an abortion, their business, a kid, their responsibility.
As a taxpayer I has no say in the choice to get pregnant, I have no responsibility to the damn brat resulting from their choice.
 
apple0154 said:
As a taxpayer you know you'll have to pay for those kids so wouldn't it be prudent, as a taxpayer, to pay for abortion services?

There are taxpayers who don't want to pay for abortions and contraceptives knowing they'll have to pay for the resulting child for the next 18 years. Surely even the dullest among the Right understand paying for contraceptives and abortion is a LOT cheaper than paying to support a person for 18 years. Then we add on the increased likelihood the unwanted child will be involved in criminal activities requiring Police and courts and ......

Just one more example of the Right's inability to think things through. :(
Click to expand...

I am sure that in your worldview this makes perfect sense. But if you operate from a place of freedom and limited government then your point is moot.

Lastly, it is a little more than disturbing that you would justify murdered to save tax dollars. How.....what is the word I am looking for?...........yeah......compassionate
 
007 said:
Same thing in the USA in an ER.

What happens if you have , let's say a change in your physical well being that could indicate a serious illness?

You present at your primary physician with constipation, what happens?

You get advised to take milk of magnesia and call back in a fortnight.

I get a barrage of tests, x-rays , MRIs, blood tests immediately, on the day, in my primary physicians office!!
Do you get that?

Even better, as a paying customer, I don't have to get in line behind those who never paid!!
Click to expand...
All for constipation.

That's why healthcare is so expensive in our 'for profit' system
 
Stargazer said:
That's the defensive medicine doctors are forced to practice due to lazy fuck career litigators.
Click to expand...
Well, there's a modicum of truth to that line of thinking, but it's more about making a fortune on unnecessary tests/medications.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top