Socialism And Righting A Wrong.

[T. A. Gardner]

If given the opportunity, you should all vote Democratic Socialist in the 2026 mid term elections. Or at the very least, Democrat. As for the wrong that needs to be righted, that starts out with the tax breaks Reagan gave to the wealthy. Right now, the bottom 50% of Americans have around 4 trillion in wealth. The top 50% of Americans have around 156 trillion in wealth. Though I couldn't say so for sure, I doubt in the days of Rome when they had slaves or during the middle ages in Europe when they had serfs that there was any different of a wealth disparity than what we have. But what we do have is bad enough. And I have the solutions. Socialism. (Or at least Democratic Socialism) Though that is far from meaning that capitalism would go away. It would just be more fair. Such as when under FDR, Truman and Eisenhower the tax rate for the wealthy was at 90%.

From there, the U.S. is around 37 trillion in debt. From the top 50%, the U.S. should seize 56 trillion in wealth. The more they have, the more we take. With that, pay off our 37 trillion debt. That would leave 19 trillion left over. What could we do with that? Well to start out, we should put a price freeze in place like Nixon did. Then pay people back for what they have been ripped off for ever since Reagan's tax breaks for the wealthy. Because obviously, "trickle down" didn't work. I say after the price freeze, we should give every working adult or retiree $50,000 dollars. That would cost around 7 trillion dollars.

That would leave 12 trillion left over. What could we do with that? To start out, fix all the infrastructure in the U.S. That would cost around a trillion. Next, for just about everything Americans buy, such as cars, refrigerators, washing machines, TV's, cell phones, etc, the U.S. should build government owned factories to build those things. That would take around another trillion dollars. When the private companies who make those things for profit go out of business, the U.S. can just take those companies over and have them government run companies.

So, what to do with the other 10 trillion or so? How about housing every American and giving all of them a car of their choice. (Electric of course) That might cost around another trillion. But likely, much less. So, what to do with the other 9 trillion? Well according to Yale University, it would cost the U.S. around 4.5 trillion to convert completely to renewable energy.



Yale e360
e360.yale.edu › digest › shifting-u-s-to-100-percent-renewables-would-cost-4-5-trillion-analysis-finds

Shifting U.S. to 100 Percent Renewables Would Cost $4.5 Trillion, Analysis Finds - Yale E360

So, that would leave the us with about another 4.5 trillion. I'm sure somebody could think of other things to use that money for. On top of all that, raise the federal minimum wage to at least $40.00 per hour. So, naysayers, (Which seems to be all there is around here) have at it.

Of course, this is absurdly stupid and the most juvenile way of looking at wealth.

Most of that wealth being discussed here is not in the form of cash but rather in various forms of property and non-cash instruments like stocks and bonds.

Confiscating non-cash monetary instruments and property does not equate to the government then having the cash equivalent to spend. For example, if the government confiscated the Rich's mansions, vacation homes, etc., they'd have to find buyers to convert those things into liquid assets (cash) that could then be spent. If buyers couldn't be found, they end up being liabilities rather than assets as they require maintenance and upkeep while producing nothing of value. The same goes for cars, yachts, whatever. Stocks and bonds could be sold off if buyers could be found, but a mass sell off would almost certainly tank the stock and bond markets meaning the value of those confiscated would plummet almost immediately and suddenly bring in a small fraction of the expected value.

Then, after all that is done, the government would have wrecked the stock and bond market, flooded various markets like real estate with over-priced property that no one could afford to buy, and in the end simply bankrupt the nation.

 

[Ross Dolan]

If given the opportunity, you should all vote Democratic Socialist in the 2026 mid term elections. Or at the very least, Democrat. As for the wrong that needs to be righted, that starts out with the tax breaks Reagan gave to the wealthy. Right now, the bottom 50% of Americans have around 4 trillion in wealth. The top 50% of Americans have around 156 trillion in wealth. Though I couldn't say so for sure, I doubt in the days of Rome when they had slaves or during the middle ages in Europe when they had serfs that there was any different of a wealth disparity than what we have. But what we do have is bad enough. And I have the solutions. Socialism. (Or at least Democratic Socialism) Though that is far from meaning that capitalism would go away. It would just be more fair. Such as when under FDR, Truman and Eisenhower the tax rate for the wealthy was at 90%.

From there, the U.S. is around 37 trillion in debt. From the top 50%, the U.S. should seize 56 trillion in wealth. The more they have, the more we take. With that, pay off our 37 trillion debt. That would leave 19 trillion left over. What could we do with that? Well to start out, we should put a price freeze in place like Nixon did. Then pay people back for what they have been ripped off for ever since Reagan's tax breaks for the wealthy. Because obviously, "trickle down" didn't work. I say after the price freeze, we should give every working adult or retiree $50,000 dollars. That would cost around 7 trillion dollars.

That would leave 12 trillion left over. What could we do with that? To start out, fix all the infrastructure in the U.S. That would cost around a trillion. Next, for just about everything Americans buy, such as cars, refrigerators, washing machines, TV's, cell phones, etc, the U.S. should build government owned factories to build those things. That would take around another trillion dollars. When the private companies who make those things for profit go out of business, the U.S. can just take those companies over and have them government run companies.

So, what to do with the other 10 trillion or so? How about housing every American and giving all of them a car of their choice. (Electric of course) That might cost around another trillion. But likely, much less. So, what to do with the other 9 trillion? Well according to Yale University, it would cost the U.S. around 4.5 trillion to convert completely to renewable energy.



Yale e360
e360.yale.edu › digest › shifting-u-s-to-100-percent-renewables-would-cost-4-5-trillion-analysis-finds

Shifting U.S. to 100 Percent Renewables Would Cost $4.5 Trillion, Analysis Finds - Yale E360

So, that would leave the us with about another 4.5 trillion. I'm sure somebody could think of other things to use that money for. On top of all that, raise the federal minimum wage to at least $40.00 per hour. So, naysayers, (Which seems to be all there is around here) have at it.

Excellent proposal, Highlight.

The MAGA morons here will heap scorn on it...which, for me, means it makes lots of sense. That is what MAGA morons do when something makes sense...heap scorn and contempt upon it.

Yes, we keep capitalism (free enterprise is a driving force) but keep it under control. Presently, it is VERY OUT OF CONTROL.

Socialism has bettered itself by borrowing ideas from capitalism. Time we learn we can better ourselves by borrowing ideas from them.

 

[cawacko]

Excellent proposal, Highlight.

The MAGA morons here will heap scorn on it...which, for me, means it makes lots of sense. That is what MAGA morons do when something makes sense...heap scorn and contempt upon it.

Yes, we keep capitalism (free enterprise is a driving force) but keep it under control. Presently, it is VERY OUT OF CONTROL.

Socialism has bettered itself by borrowing ideas from capitalism. Time we learn we can better ourselves by borrowing ideas from them.

This proposal says the government should start by seizing $56 trillion from Americans. That's basically 1/3 of all household wealth in the country. If the goal is to have an absolute collapse of the American financial system, this would do it.

You know what they say about assuming, but I'm going to assume most people don't want that.

 

[Highlight]

What parody or satire site did this come from?

Tell me what you disagree with.

 

[Highlight]

At every opportunity, stamp out all socialism.


Let the Democrat party relegate itself to the septic tank of history.


You didn't define "wealthy." Reagan gave tax breaks to everyone who pays taxes, as did Trump. What do you have against tax breaks?


Are you going to pretend that wealth differences are somehow bad? You are, aren't you?

All Marxists are economics-challenged and are undereducated in all other disciplines. The greater the economy, the greater the wealth and income differences; only where everyone is broke and miserable, wealth equality reigns.


What we have is great! Why do you want everyone to be broke and miserable? Oh wait, you just want all the wealth redistributed, from those who earned it to those who did not. You want the government to confiscate the wealth of those who have added value to society and who have brought happiness to people's lives, and to redistribute that wealth to you for free, right?

I see where you're going with this. Go on ...


I'll tell you what, I'll totally endorse your plan if I get to be the guy who centrally plans everything and who determines how all the wealth is redistributed. Do we have a deal?


So you want to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs? Why? Why do you want everyone to be broke and miserable?


Aaaaaahhh! The Marxist "they" and "we"! @gfm7175, I hope you are tracking this.

"They" = "Everyone other than me"
"We" = "I"

Is that about right? The more wealth held by people other than you, should be seized by you, right? And you want me, as the central planner and wealth redistributor, to make this happen, right?


Nope. You and I are going to take it all, and spend our days drinking guava daquiris in the Bahamas! Woo-hoo! Cook Islands Trust here we come!


Why put ashes back into the barbeque pit? Let's take that as well.


I think we already know what we can do with all that.


That's great, we'll have the government artificially fuck with supply-demand price realization, accelerating the demise of the economy and rushing the entire country to abject poverty and dire misery. And the best part of it all is that we don't need to spend any of our war booty and spoils to make that happen. Not one thin dime.


Yeah, we can skip that part. Nobody was really ripped off, but you and I are owed all the money we'll be taking so that really is the best use of those funds.


Of course not. It had to be something else that made the US the most powerful economy in the world. Obviously it wasn't the supply-demand curve. I really wonder what it could have been.


No. That will seriously cut into our daquiri diet.

So, your novel idea is to steal wealth from those who earned it, so that you can give away lots of free stuff. Hmmmmm. That's refreshingly new. I wonder why Democrats haven't picked up on the idea.

I looked at your first two responses. It was pointless going any farther. You're an idiot.

 

[Highlight]

What is the definition of "renewables"?

Wind and Solar. Mostly, solar.

 

[Highlight]

The number of people willing to work their asses off in order to perform and achieve at the highest level in hopes of receiving a participation trophy is exactly zero.

What, do I hear some "blame the poor" bullshit?

 

[Highlight]

Could you give us a rough breakdown of how that "56 trillion in wealth" is distributed? That is, list what it is, like cash, stocks, real estate, personal property, etc.

Read the thread. I broke it all down for you.

 

[Highlight]

Excellent proposal, Highlight.

The MAGA morons here will heap scorn on it...which, for me, means it makes lots of sense. That is what MAGA morons do when something makes sense...heap scorn and contempt upon it.

Yes, we keep capitalism (free enterprise is a driving force) but keep it under control. Presently, it is VERY OUT OF CONTROL.

Socialism has bettered itself by borrowing ideas from capitalism. Time we learn we can better ourselves by borrowing ideas from them.

You are clearly very intelligent. A rarity at any forum.

 

[Highlight]

This proposal says the government should start by seizing $56 trillion from Americans. That's basically 1/3 of all household wealth in the country. If the goal is to have an absolute collapse of the American financial system, this would do it.

You know what they say about assuming, but I'm going to assume most people don't want that.

What a bunch of bullshit. You think 100 trillion isn't enough for the top 50%? That's fucking nuts! Also, what if the bottom 50% had more money as I suggested. What would they do with it? Spend it! Tell me of any company that wouldn't benefit from having people spending money. It would cause our economy to soar far higher than it has ever been.

 

[Ross Dolan]

This proposal says the government should start by seizing $56 trillion from Americans. That's basically 1/3 of all household wealth in the country. If the goal is to have an absolute collapse of the American financial system, this would do it.

You know what they say about assuming, but I'm going to assume most people don't want that.

The idea is good.

Maybe some adjustments to the amounts need to be made.

But right now the top 1% own one third of all the wealth in America...and the bottom 50% own only 2 1/2%

Surely you see that to be inappropriate.

Right?

 

[Highlight]

Of course, this is absurdly stupid and the most juvenile way of looking at wealth.

Most of that wealth being discussed here is not in the form of cash but rather in various forms of property and non-cash instruments like stocks and bonds.

Confiscating non-cash monetary instruments and property does not equate to the government then having the cash equivalent to spend. For example, if the government confiscated the Rich's mansions, vacation homes, etc., they'd have to find buyers to convert those things into liquid assets (cash) that could then be spent. If buyers couldn't be found, they end up being liabilities rather than assets as they require maintenance and upkeep while producing nothing of value. The same goes for cars, yachts, whatever. Stocks and bonds could be sold off if buyers could be found, but a mass sell off would almost certainly tank the stock and bond markets meaning the value of those confiscated would plummet almost immediately and suddenly bring in a small fraction of the expected value.

Then, after all that is done, the government would have wrecked the stock and bond market, flooded various markets like real estate with over-priced property that no one could afford to buy, and in the end simply bankrupt the nation.

Do you like hearing yourself talk? Because you know as little on this topic as you do on radiation. For the most part, money is in the form of numbers on a page. As for any seized assets or any other kind of wealth, they would be turned into the same. What they would become is equity. If you have the equity, you have the cash.

Next, let's take houses. They are WAY overpriced as it is. That is because the wealthy can buy them up and say whatever they want to say that they are worth, Also, Trump is already trying to destroy the economy. Then the wealthy can buy up whatever for pennies on the dollar. I remember seeing something on TV where they were talking about the stock market crash that brought about the great depression. They talked about an instance where some well known financier had gone into NY on business for a few days. Somebody like a Rockefeller or JP Morgan. He left his wife back at their country estate. While he was away, his wife had heard on the radio about the stock market crash. When he got back home, his wife brought it up to him and asked him, "How much money did we lose." His answer was, "I made more money than I ever have in my life." The reason why I think that was so is because things like buildings, machinery, land, railroads, etc. have a tendency to retain their value.

 

[cawacko]

The idea is good.

Maybe some adjustments to the amounts need to be made.

But right now the top 1% own one third of all the wealth in America...and the bottom 50% own only 2 1/2%

Surely you see that to be inappropriate.

Right?

You and I spoke previously about this idea of mass violence in this country. If one really wants to see it, pass this proposal.

This would absolutely collapse the financial system in our country. The government seizing private assets on this scale would create mass panic, collapse credit markets, and wipe out jobs in savings for everyone not just the rich.

Part of the fun of message boards, like the movies, is the ability to suspend disbelief and pretend a proposal like this could really happen. In reality it hasn’t happened for a reason.

 

[IBDaMann]

I looked at your first two responses. It was pointless going any farther.

... because you can't defend your position. You know nothing about economics. You can't think for yourself; all of your arguments are handed to you by someone else. You're only in it for the attention.

 

[IBDaMann]

Wind and Solar. Mostly, solar.

You didn't define "renewable". Why aren't hydrocarbons (petroleum and natural gas) also listed as renewables? Hydrocarbons seem to be the world's best, cheapest and most reliable renewable form of energy on the planet, bar none, but you didn't list them. You also didn't provide the definition that shows that wind and solar somehow meet that definition.

 

[IBDaMann]

Because you know as little on this topic as you do on radiation.

Are you still referring to radioactivity as radiation? You are, aren't you? Too funny.

For the most part, money is in the form of numbers on a page.

He didn't ask about money. He asked about wealth. You don't know the difference, you say?

If you have the equity, you have the cash.

Somebody is not an accountant. I wonder who that is.

That is because the wealthy can buy them up and say whatever they want to say that they are worth,

Then Zillow comes along and says what they are actually worth.

Also, Trump is already trying to destroy the economy.

... but the jokes on him, right, with the economy skyrocketing to its 50x!

Then the wealthy can buy up whatever for pennies on the dollar.

How are the wealthy going to buy up properties for pennies on the dollar from the wealthy who say whatever they want to say that they are worth?

 

[Ross Dolan]

You and I spoke previously about this idea of mass violence in this country. If one really wants to see it, pass this proposal.

I seriously doubt the proposal can be passed...and by now you should realize that.

It is something we could rightly, justifiably work toward.

This would absolutely collapse the financial system in our country. The government seizing private assets on this scale would create mass panic, collapse credit markets, and wipe out jobs in savings for everyone not just the rich.

The government does not seize the money. They adjust tax rates so that the ends can be achieved. It already "seizes" much more than you suppose would panic and collapse credit markets. What has to happen is that the rates have to be adjusted so that a fairer situation can exist.

Or, the kind of bullshit that happened in the late 18th century France and early 20th century Russia will happen here.

My guess, though, is that IF the Republic survives Trump and the MAGA morons...enough people will see the problem and start working on a solution so that one will be found.

Part of the fun of message boards, like the movies, is the ability to suspend disbelief and pretend a proposal like this could really happen. In reality it hasn’t happened for a reason.

Read my first comment.