Solar Power continues to expand exponentially

[Walt]

The problem with solar, in particular, is the combination of low capacity factor and highly variable output. The cost of the panels themselves is almost irrelevant here. The panels could damn near be free and solar would still end up more expensive to operate on the grid.

We are looking at periods of time that energy will be nearly free. Energy has value, so if it is being offered for free the markets will take advantage of that.

For instance, it could be used for desalination. No one cares if the water they drink, or use to grow crops was desalinated a day or two ago.

It is all going to take new thinking, but it is an opportunity of immense proportions. It is an opportunity that Republicans do not want Americans to have. Basically, Republicans want the USA to become a third world country over the next few decades.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

We are looking at periods of time that energy will be nearly free. Energy has value, so if it is being offered for free the markets will take advantage of that.

For instance, it could be used for desalination. No one cares if the water they drink, or use to grow crops was desalinated a day or two ago.

It is all going to take new thinking, but it is an opportunity of immense proportions. It is an opportunity that Republicans do not want Americans to have. Basically, Republicans want the USA to become a third world country over the next few decades.

All of that requires that you have a grid capable of shifting those loads as necessary. As Germany has already found out, that is a very expensive, and nearly unobtainable, goal.

It is cheaper to go nuclear and natural gas than solar and wind. Massive carbon reduction there, if that interests you.

 

[Walt]

All of that requires that you have a grid capable of shifting those loads as necessary. As Germany has already found out, that is a very expensive, and nearly unobtainable, goal.

It is cheaper to go nuclear and natural gas than solar and wind. Massive carbon reduction there, if that interests you.

It is expensive to develop, but the countries that develop it will sell it to the others. We have to decide if we are going to be a first world country selling smart grids to the world, or a third world country hoping for some scraps off the table.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

It is expensive to develop, but the countries that develop it will sell it to the others. We have to decide if we are going to be a first world country selling smart grids to the world, or a third world country hoping for some scraps off the table.

Nope on that too. In Europe, Germany's neighbors have largely disconnected from Germany's grid because of frequent 'dumping' when solar and wind over produce.

Loops and cracks: Excess German power strains Europe’s grids

www.cleanenergywire.org

Germany’s Maxed-Out Grid Is Causing Trouble Across Europe

The growing mismatch between Germany’s renewables capacity and the strength of its electricity network is leading to curtailment, crazy pricing and challenges for neighboring nations.

www.greentechmedia.com

Poland Builds Electronic Wall to Keep Out German Renewables

German renewables are invading Poland.

www.greentechmedia.com

 

[Into the Night]

The Economist is a right wing British magazine. I can either believe them, and the multiple reputable sources they cite, or I can believe Night, someone who does not believe fossil fuels exist... Let me repeat that, Night does not believe fossil fuels exist.

So you are going to mindlessly believe everything the government tell you. A magazine is neither science nor engineering, Wally.
Fossils don't burn. They aren't used as fuel.

And there are many, many other sources, on top there is what I have had to pay myself. And remember people are basing trillions of dollars of investment on this, so there is a huge incentive to find something wrong in the numbers.

Again, Night does not believe fossil fuels exist.

This really is not a contest in my mind. I might be wrong, but right now I see no need to discuss this further.

Attempted proof by 'expert'. Fossils don't burn, Wally.

 

[Into the Night]

You could not be more wrong. What they are looking at is the cost per KWH produced. That is the cost including construction costs.

There is an additional problem that they delve into. The electricity from solar is produced on the sun's/weather's schedule, not based on needs. It goes deeper into the solutions for this, but suffices to say on cost per KWH, solar is among the cheapest, if not the cheapest.



While I am not in electrical production, I do have a masters degree in computer and electrical engineering. I have never heard of anyone using a kilowatt-day. I suppose that you could multiple the cost of producing a KWH by 24, and come up with a kilowatt-day. Given that solar power beats others based on the KWH, it would naturally beat others based on 24 times KWH.

The one point you could have had was the solar does not produce the electricity on demand. That would have had some merit. Instead, you have come up with bizarre claims that all the businesses and experts in the world do not know how to price electricity production correctly, or that multiplying two numbers by 24 will change which is bigger.

Blatant lie. Solar power is the most expensive method of generating electricity there is. Nuclear power is far cheaper. Natural gas, oil, and coal, are far cheaper still.

Being a programmer that could probably not code your way out of a wet paper bag does not help you here.
And you are no engineer. You are pretending, obviously.

 

[evince]

Massively rising power prices are destroying civilization....which may well be a feature not a bug.

Suck that Putin cock

 

[Into the Night]

I am not retarded,

Perhaps not, but you are certainly illiterate in engineering.

nor are the huge numbers of experts that are saying you are wrong.

'Expert' worship doesn't work here. You cannot change the laws of physics by claiming 'experts'. You don't get to speak for everyone. Omniscience fallacy. Void authority fallacy.

Beyond you just being incorrect,

He is correct here.

there is a bizarre arrogance in you thinking you have outsmarted a lot of smart people who have spent their lives studying these issues.

Omniscience fallacy. Void authority fallacy.

That somehow you have figured out something simple that everyone else in the world missed....

You don't get to speak for everyone, Wally. Omniscience fallacy. Void authority fallacy.

What are the odds?

Math errors: Failure to declare boundary. Failure to declare randX. I guess you don't know any probability math either.

Amazingly, you do this several times a day, and yet are unable to make any money off your great genius...

He does make money off of it. So do I.

Let's say a solar panel costs $700(installation and lifetime maintenances) for a theoretical maximum output of a KWH, actually produces 20% of that on average, and has a lifespan of on average of 20 years. That is $700/20/365/24/0.2 = $0.02 per KWH. Because most of that cost is front loaded, and money over time has a cost to it, that might go up to $0.04 per KWH.

Oh THIS bad math again. Solar panels are not an investment, Wally. There is no 'lifetime maintenance' of solar panels. Making up numbers and using them as 'data' is another fallacy. Argument from randU fallacy.

Now I am just doing simple math here. There are experts out there really drilling down deep into this. They are spending their lives figuring out these costs, because tiny mistakes, if found, can give huge payoffs.

It suffices to say that you are completely wrong.

 

[Into the Night]

It is expensive to develop,

Develop what, Wally. You were talking about solar power, the most expensive method of producing electricity there is.

but the countries that develop it will sell it to the others.

Develop what, Wally?

We have to decide if we are going to be a first world country selling smart grids to the world, or a third world country hoping for some scraps off the table.

You cannot sell 'smart grids'. They are imposed. A grid produces NO power. There is only one Earth.

 

[Into the Night]

We are looking at periods of time that energy will be nearly free.

Solar power is not free. It is the most expensive method of producing electrical power.

Energy has value, so if it is being offered for free the markets will take advantage of that.

Free markets reject solar power. It can only be imposed by a government.

For instance, it could be used for desalination.

Not enough power.

No one cares if the water they drink, or use to grow crops was desalinated a day or two ago.

Not enough power.

It is all going to take new thinking, but it is an opportunity of immense proportions.

Solar power is not the grid. A grid produces NO power. Your 'opportunity' is nothing but government mandates.

It is an opportunity that Republicans do not want Americans to have.

Communism and fascism don't work, Wally.

Basically, Republicans want the USA to become a third world country over the next few decades.

There is only one Earth, Wally. You cannot blame the problems of Democrats on Trump or anybody else.

 

[Walt]

Develop what, Wally. You were talking about solar power, the most expensive method of producing electricity there is.

Develop what, Wally?

You cannot sell 'smart grids'. They are imposed. A grid produces NO power. There is only one Earth.

A smart grid would be expensive to develop, but the equipment developed could be exported.

It is an interesting idea of an electrical grid more like the internet, with distributed consumers and producers.

 

[Into the Night]

A smart grid would be expensive to develop, but the equipment developed could be exported.

It is an interesting idea of an electrical grid more like the internet, with distributed consumers and producers.

A grid does not produce any power, Wally.
A 'Smart Grid' is imposed by government, Wally. You can't sell it.