Stick it to the Taxpayers

SuperstringTheory said:
No, if you were not such a true believer you would know that meta analyses are suspect. There is a publication bias and many other problems. This one included studies with and without a sham acupuncture control group. None of the studies were double blind, meaning that the reserchers bias could have played a roll. The reported changes in pain (a highly subjective standard) were only -5 on a scale of 100 between the sham and real acupuncture. That is not clinically significant. Your best proof is pretty worthless.
Click to expand...

Side note... the same article says:
‘The difference between traditional and sham acupuncture in this study is greater than the difference between painkilling aspirin-like drugs and a sham pill or placebo,’ says Professor George Lewith, head of the complementary medicine research unit at the University of Southampton and another author on the paper.
Click to expand...

so obviously you also feel that aspirin is worthless?


​
 
Superfreak said:
LMAO... and you have NO proof that it is ineffective. You simply chant 'it be voodoo' and run away from discussion.
Click to expand...

Again, you show your ignorance of science. Prove that faith healing is not effective.

I have not just run away. I answered your best arguments. Sorry to be the one to piss in your cornflakes but there is no proof that acupuncture has anything more than a placebo effect.

There would be no reason to train/license any acupuncturists as there is nothing outside of the placebo effect (and the very temporary opioid effects) which anyone can point to as a physiological reason why poking someone with a needle shows any impact. It is no different than the power of prayer, which again there are crappy studies and misnterpreted studies one can point to showing it has a beneficial effect.
 
SuperstringTheory said:
Again, you show your ignorance of science. Prove that faith healing is not effective.

I have not just run away. I answered your best arguments. Sorry to be the one to piss in your cornflakes but there is no proof that acupuncture has anything more than a placebo effect.
Click to expand...

LMAO... the fact that you continue to call acupuncture 'faith healing' shows you are not interested in science. You simply want to bash that which you don't understand. Typical of religious types.

Again, the difference between acupuncture and sham acupuncture is greater than that between aspirin and a placebo for aspirin. Yet you are fully accepting of aspirin. Imagine that.

There would be no reason to train/license any acupuncturists as there is nothing outside of the placebo effect (and the very temporary opioid effects) which anyone can point to as a physiological reason why poking someone with a needle shows any impact. It is no different than the power of prayer, which again there are crappy studies and misnterpreted studies one can point to showing it has a beneficial effect.
Click to expand...

Again... the above is all nonsense. It is what you want to BELIEVE, it is not something you can show scientific evidence to back. The fact that we don't understand fully how it works is what scares you into believing it is a fraud. You clearly didn't read the articles where the doctors were discussing it. The different effects the acupuncture had on the brain vs. the scam acupuncture.

But please, do continue ranting and raving about that which you know so little. Have you ever even tried acupuncture?

Can't help but notice that you can't acknowledge that whether or not it is all placebo effect... both acupuncture and scam acupuncture showed significantly better results than standard Western medical practices.
 
Superfreak said:
LMAO... the fact that you continue to call acupuncture 'faith healing' shows you are not interested in science. You simply want to bash that which you don't understand. Typical of religious types.

Again, the difference between acupuncture and sham acupuncture is greater than that between aspirin and a placebo for aspirin. Yet you are fully accepting of aspirin. Imagine that.



Again... the above is all nonsense. It is what you want to BELIEVE, it is not something you can show scientific evidence to back. The fact that we don't understand fully how it works is what scares you into believing it is a fraud. You clearly didn't read the articles where the doctors were discussing it. The different effects the acupuncture had on the brain vs. the scam acupuncture.

But please, do continue ranting and raving about that which you know so little. Have you ever even tried acupuncture?

Can't help but notice that you can't acknowledge that whether or not it is all placebo effect... both acupuncture and scam acupuncture showed significantly better results than standard Western medical practices.
Click to expand...

I did not call it faith healing and your assertion is non sequitur. I am an atheist. I am not arguing for faith healing.

You base the aspirin thing on an off the cuff comment by some guy with an interest in complimentary or alternative medicine. I have not said a damn thing about aspirin other than none of the studies involved in the meta nalyses had any fucking thing to do with studying the effects of aspirin. Like I said, the comment says more about this guys bias than anything else.

Further, the studies were not about western medical practices. You are an idiot and your conspiracy theorist approach is typical of advocates. Your best arguments have been dismissed and now you are trying to attack all medical practices as equally invalid.
 
SuperstringTheory said:
I did not call it faith healing and your assertion is non sequitur. I am an atheist. I am not arguing for faith healing.
Click to expand...

you have equated it to faith healing multiple times on this thread. Your being an atheist has nothing to do with it. I also did not state you are arguing for faith healing. How many straw men must you create?

You base the aspirin thing on an off the cuff comment by some guy with an interest in complimentary or alternative medicine. I have not said a damn thing about aspirin other than none of the studies involved in the meta nalyses had any fucking thing to do with studying the effects of aspirin. Like I said, the comment says more about this guys bias than anything else.
Click to expand...

LMAO... you are right... we should instead take your word and off the cuff comments that are completely unbiased (as evidenced by your comparing something you don't know anything about to faith healings)
 
Superfreak said:
you have equated it to faith healing multiple times on this thread. Your being an atheist has nothing to do with it. I also did not state you are arguing for faith healing. How many straw men must you create?



LMAO... you are right... we should instead take your word and off the cuff comments that are completely unbiased (as evidenced by your comparing something you don't know anything about to faith healings)
Click to expand...

You are claiming that my position is based on religion. A strawman and ad hom.

I know enough not to count the control group as proof of the effectiveness of acupuncture. I have no idea what research the guy was citing in regards to aspirin. But it is likely coming from a study that is not heterogenous to ANY of the studies of the meta analyses, which suffers from problems surrounding there lack of heterogneous.

Again, there is absolutely NO support for any causal effects outside of the placebo. The supposed "science" surrounding acupuncture is disproven by the many studies showing that there is little difference between real acupuncture and sham acupuncture. The -5 effect of real acupuncture is not significant especially considering the fact that NONE of the studies were double blind. Was the study on aspirin this guy cited double blind? I don't know but probably.

You have failed to respond to any of the criticisms and instead revert to your bread and butter of throwing shit at everything.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top