Supreme Court rules juvenile life without parole cruel and unusual

[apple0154]

I don't understand what you are getting at. Are you suggesting the parents should be charged with murder if their child comments one? What is an investigation into the parents going to do?

It's going to see if their upbringing contributed to the child's actions like I mentioned in msg #12. Did the parents witness behavior that should have led them to seek professional help for the child? If society believes a child is not capable of making major decisions then how can society hold a child responsible for such a major decision?

And you don't think kids who grew up in foster homes and with different families aren't subjected to crazy dsyfunctional families all their lives either? Those are the types of kids that grow up without ever feeling loved and it is much easier for someone like that to take anothers life.

That's quite possible. I'm not discounting it. My point is they are children. In order to prevent such things from happening the child's background has to be thoroughly checked and that includes the adult(s) in whose custody they were.

On that note I'm off to bed. I'll check back in the morning. Have a good night.

 

[cawacko]

It's going to see if their upbringing contributed to the child's actions like I mentioned in msg #12. Did the parents witness behavior that should have led them to seek professional help for the child? If society believes a child is not capable of making major decisions then how can society hold a child responsible for such a major decision?



That's quite possible. I'm not discounting it. My point is they are children. In order to prevent such things from happening the child's background has to be thoroughly checked and that includes the adult(s) in whose custody they were.

On that note I'm off to bed. I'll check back in the morning. Have a good night.

Yes, have a good evening. I'm still not understanding what effect you think discovering what the murderer's home situation was like should have on their punishment.

 

[Billy the Great Khan]

The average teenage brain is still a work in progress. Read something scientific on the topic for a change.

Yes, but fundamental societal norms should be recognized at this point in developement, like murder being wrong.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

If a young kid grows up in a crap environment and murders someone what do you think his punishment should be?

The same as it would be for a young kid who grew up in a good enviroment and murders someone.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

I believe it should be a case by case review, there are some juveniles that need to stay in prison forever.

Yea...like my psycho newspaper boy!

 

[apple0154]

Yes, have a good evening. I'm still not understanding what effect you think discovering what the murderer's home situation was like should have on their punishment.

It depends on how they were brought up. I gave an example about the girl who delivered a baby in the school washroom. What type of home life did she have where she was so concerned about her father's reaction she ended up doing that? Maybe nothing. Or maybe her parents are basket cases. Who knows?

As Christiefan keeps trying to get across their brain is still developing. Why do young kids strap explosives to themselves and blow people up in the ME? Is the child to blame?

 

[cawacko]

It depends on how they were brought up. I gave an example about the girl who delivered a baby in the school washroom. What type of home life did she have where she was so concerned about her father's reaction she ended up doing that? Maybe nothing. Or maybe her parents are basket cases. Who knows?

As Christiefan keeps trying to get across their brain is still developing. Why do young kids strap explosives to themselves and blow people up in the ME? Is the child to blame?

We are talking about murder laws in the U.S. Yes a child's brain is still developing during their teenage years but do you think they don't know that murder is illegal? At the end of the day the argument is about whether children murderers deserve the same length of punishment as adult murderers. You can talk all you want about a child murderers home environment but that does not answer the question.

 

[apple0154]

Yea...like my psycho newspaper boy!

I used to get the daily paper delivered. Sometimes they never put it in a plastic bag when it was raining. Or they'd throw it on the walk when it was snowing and I'd notice it as it came out the snow blower chute! I complained for YEARS! Finally, I stopped delivery.

They kept phoning me to re-start my subscription. " We changed delivery people." "We follow up on complaints and check on deliveries." On and on with crap.

"Too late", I told them. "I complained for years. Never again."

 

[apple0154]

We are talking about murder laws in the U.S. Yes a child's brain is still developing during their teenage years but do you think they don't know that murder is illegal? At the end of the day the argument is about whether children murderers deserve the same length of punishment as adult murderers. You can talk all you want about a child murderers home environment but that does not answer the question.

I said it depends on the age and circumstance. No, they do not deserve the same sentence as an adult. Are we going to punish children as adults while denying them adult benefits?

 

[christiefan915]

We are talking about murder laws in the U.S. Yes a child's brain is still developing during their teenage years but do you think they don't know that murder is illegal? At the end of the day the argument is about whether children murderers deserve the same length of punishment as adult murderers. You can talk all you want about a child murderers home environment but that does not answer the question.

I think they know murder is illegal but in the heat of the moment give in to impulse, while a mature adult might take a step back to consider the consequences.

 

[cawacko]

I said it depends on the age and circumstance. No, they do not deserve the same sentence as an adult. Are we going to punish children as adults while denying them adult benefits?

So what should the punishment be for a 16 year old murderer who comes from a f'd up background?

 

[Bonestorm]

We are talking about murder laws in the U.S. Yes a child's brain is still developing during their teenage years but do you think they don't know that murder is illegal? At the end of the day the argument is about whether children murderers deserve the same length of punishment as adult murderers. You can talk all you want about a child murderers home environment but that does not answer the question.

At the end of the day the argument is whether there may be some circumstances under which life without parole is an inappropriate sentence for a 14 year old who commits murder. We're talking about a mandatory minimum of life without parole that removes all discretion from the sentencing judge.

 

[cawacko]

I think they know murder is illegal but in the heat of the moment give in to impulse, while a mature adult might take a step back to consider the consequences.

Do you see how full our jails are with adult murderers compared to kid murderers? If your senario was the case those numbers would be reversed.

 

[Disillusioned]

I think they know murder is illegal but in the heat of the moment give in to impulse, while a mature adult might take a step back to consider the consequences.

Doesn't change the fact that somebody is dead. It's not the person under judgement here, it's the crime.

 

[cawacko]

At the end of the day the argument is whether there may be some circumstances under which life without parole is an inappropriate sentence for a 14 year old who commits murder. We're talking about a mandatory minimum of life without parole that removes all discretion from the sentencing judge.

What role, if any, should a child murderers background play in their sentencing? Because that is what Apple is getting at and what I'm responding to.

 

[Disillusioned]

At the end of the day the argument is whether there may be some circumstances under which life without parole is an inappropriate sentence for a 14 year old who commits murder. We're talking about a mandatory minimum of life without parole that removes all discretion from the sentencing judge.

If it's an appropriate sentence for an adult why not for a kid? The murder isn't nicer just because a kid did it. And in general I consider parole to be a stupid concept on it's very foundation, "We know you did it, you should serve a longer time, except too many other people are committing similar crimes and we can't house them all so, you get off with half the time you should serve."

 

[cawacko]

If it's an appropriate sentence for an adult why not for a kid? The murder isn't nicer just because a kid did it. And in general I consider parole to be a stupid concept on it's very foundation, "We know you did it, you should serve a longer time, except too many other people are committing similar crimes and we can't house them all so, you get off with half the time you should serve."

This is just me but I don't think all kids charged with murder should get mandatory life in prison without. Adults don't get it so I don't believe minors should get it either. To a family that lost a loved one murder is murder and their loved one is never coming back. But there's a reason courts distinguish between pre-meditated first degree murder and manslaughter.

Now when apple starts talking about interviewing parents and finding out if the murderer beat animals in terms of how the kid is sentenced I think it is ridiculous. Punishment should be based on the act.

 

[BRUTALITOPS]

probably is gangs will get all their young ones to go out and do killing when they know they wont have big charges.

but this ruling doesn't say the young proles can't be sentenced to life, just that judges now have the option and can take other things into account. So I think thats fine.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

I used to get the daily paper delivered. Sometimes they never put it in a plastic bag when it was raining. Or they'd throw it on the walk when it was snowing and I'd notice it as it came out the snow blower chute! I complained for YEARS! Finally, I stopped delivery.

They kept phoning me to re-start my subscription. " We changed delivery people." "We follow up on complaints and check on deliveries." On and on with crap.

"Too late", I told them. "I complained for years. Never again."

You mean you went and made this decision, without checking into the past home life of the delivery person.
Here you went and deprived this person a portion of their income, without taking all the possibilities into consideration.

 

[Damocles]

We are talking about murder laws in the U.S. Yes a child's brain is still developing during their teenage years but do you think they don't know that murder is illegal? At the end of the day the argument is about whether children murderers deserve the same length of punishment as adult murderers. You can talk all you want about a child murderers home environment but that does not answer the question.

There is no "same" length of time for the young if you give no chance for parole. Their punishment will always be longer, and the changes to their lives and minds more significant.