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[FUCK THE POLICE]

I am a Math teacher in a public school and I preach. I have been teaching Math for 21 years and preaching full time for 20.

My old preacher had a doctorate in math. I'm pretty certain that the congregation couldn't afford to pay for an entire preachers salary on their lonesome. Unless it was a mega-church...

What denomination are you guys?

 

[leaningright]

My old preacher had a doctorate in math. I'm pretty certain that the congregation couldn't afford to pay for an entire preachers salary on their lonesome. Unless it was a mega-church...

What denomination are you guys?

I'm a member of the Church of Christ. And you're right....one couldn't make a living preaching where I preach and I suppose I would do it even if they didn't pay me a little as I am very comfortable living on my taching salary. Our congregation has about 50 - 60 members and is located in a community of about 200 people.

 

[Cancel5]

I respect your perspective as usual my friend, but the difference in our perspectives is that I tend to focus on society, not the individual whether good or bad, positive or negative. Start from what is in the best interest of society and work to eliminate the abuses. We should never allow the exception to define the whole.

I grew up poor, and for a several years my mother was on welfare with five kids, me being the oldest. I know what powdered milk and eggs taste like. I know how hard it is to stir the oil into the giant can of peanut butter we got along with the powdered milk and eggs. I know what it's like as a child having to go to the store with food stamps .. and hope no one sees you using them.

I also know what my father endured. When he was laid-off by Chrysler, and like many black men, couldn't find a job that paid more than peanuts, he worked long hours for those peanuts and refused to accept any assistance. One scene that will always remain in my mind is my brother and I walking over to my father's small apartment with a plate of food my mother had made for him. He was so hungry that when he sat down to eat his hands were shaking. I could see him fighting back the tears .. so I kissed him good bye, grabbed my younger brother and we left. My father was too proud to accept assistance and he gave my mother whatever peanuts he could make .. but he was not an anomaly or an exception. There were a lot of men doing just what my father was doing and a lot of families doing just what my mother was doing.

But both of them and all the families around them were just statistics on somebody's chart. Just figures to point at while exhalting the wonders of their ideology .. which is not at all what I'm suggesting you're doing good brother.

I don't believe the notion that large percentages of people don't want to work and/or are inherently lazy. Job fairs even today draw thousands of applicants for a few available jobs .. and those are just the ones who haven't already given up.

But there is an even deeper question here in my opinion .. the question of spirituality. I do not disconnect my spirituality from my politics. What best serves children, seniors, handicapped, and the whole of society is my concern first and foremost, not my anger at the exception.

I am a care taker and right now, I just want to hug you for many reasons!

No wonder we scored so close together on the graft.

I had an easy white bread life growing up, I have had a life of plenty as an adult. I have no idea what you went through growing up. It is very unfortunate that this occurs in the USA.

 

[blackascoal]

No Water. Around 20% of the people whom I deal with who are on welfare are abusing the system. I deal with a lot of underprivileged kids. Eighty percent of our public school's enrollment are considered socio-economically challenged.

Is that figure an assumption or do you know that for fact?

 

[blackascoal]

I am a care taker and right now, I just want to hug you for many reasons!

No wonder we scored so close together on the graft.

I had an easy white bread life growing up, I have had a life of plenty as an adult. I have no idea what you went through growing up. It is very unfortunate that this occurs in the USA.

A big cyber-hug for you too.

Regardless of how differently we grew up, it is spirituality that we share today.

The good news is that in spite of my poor beginnings, education provided me the opportunity to be anything I wanted to be. I thank this country for that opportunity, but I especially thank those who fought, died, and suffered to ensure I had that opportunity .. many of them people just like you good sister.

I am who I am because of people like this ...

Viola Liuzzo

She had beginnings and a life much as you describe, but it wasn't enough. She had the courage to stand up for civil rights, and it cost her life.

I OWE a debt to this society .. I owe a debt to Viola Liuzzo .. and people just like you my Queen.

 

[Annie]

I respect your perspective as usual my friend, but the difference in our perspectives is that I tend to focus on society, not the individual whether good or bad, positive or negative. Start from what is in the best interest of society and work to eliminate the abuses. We should never allow the exception to define the whole.

I grew up poor, and for a several years my mother was on welfare with five kids, me being the oldest. I know what powdered milk and eggs taste like. I know how hard it is to stir the oil into the giant can of peanut butter we got along with the powdered milk and eggs. I know what it's like as a child having to go to the store with food stamps .. and hope no one sees you using them.

I also know what my father endured. When he was laid-off by Chrysler, and like many black men, couldn't find a job that paid more than peanuts, he worked long hours for those peanuts and refused to accept any assistance. One scene that will always remain in my mind is my brother and I walking over to my father's small apartment with a plate of food my mother had made for him. He was so hungry that when he sat down to eat his hands were shaking. I could see him fighting back the tears .. so I kissed him good bye, grabbed my younger brother and we left. My father was too proud to accept assistance and he gave my mother whatever peanuts he could make .. but he was not an anomaly or an exception. There were a lot of men doing just what my father was doing and a lot of families doing just what my mother was doing.

But both of them and all the families around them were just statistics on somebody's chart. Just figures to point at while exhalting the wonders of their ideology .. which is not at all what I'm suggesting you're doing good brother.

I don't believe the notion that large percentages of people don't want to work and/or are inherently lazy. Job fairs even today draw thousands of applicants for a few available jobs .. and those are just the ones who haven't already given up.

But there is an even deeper question here in my opinion .. the question of spirituality. I do not disconnect my spirituality from my politics. What best serves children, seniors, handicapped, and the whole of society is my concern first and foremost, not my anger at the exception.

BAC I didn't know poverty as a child, but I do now. I don't think only blacks were laid off at Chrysler or any place else. I'm certain there was discrimination when you were growing up, I don't argue there isn't today, in areas, (not geographically, rather economically). With that said, regardless of race, here's poor, (I can now relate):

http://whatever.scalzi.com/2005/09/03/being-poor/

Being poor is knowing exactly how much everything costs.

Being poor is getting angry at your kids for asking for all the crap they see on TV.

Being poor is having to keep buying $800 cars because they’re what you can afford, and then having the cars break down on you, because there’s not an $800 car in America that’s worth a damn.

Being poor is hoping the toothache goes away.

Being poor is knowing your kid goes to friends’ houses but never has friends over to yours.

Being poor is going to the restroom before you get in the school lunch line so your friends will be ahead of you and won’t hear you say “I get free lunch” when you get to the cashier.

Being poor is living next to the freeway.

Being poor is coming back to the car with your children in the back seat, clutching that box of Raisin Bran you just bought and trying to think of a way to make the kids understand that the box has to last.

Being poor is wondering if your well-off sibling is lying when he says he doesn’t mind when you ask for help.

Being poor is off-brand toys.

Being poor is a heater in only one room of the house.

Being poor is knowing you can’t leave $5 on the coffee table when your friends are around.

Being poor is hoping your kids don’t have a growth spurt.

Being poor is stealing meat from the store, frying it up before your mom gets home and then telling her she doesn’t have make dinner tonight because you’re not hungry anyway.

Being poor is Goodwill underwear.

Being poor is not enough space for everyone who lives with you.

Being poor is feeling the glued soles tear off your supermarket shoes when you run around the playground.

Being poor is your kid’s school being the one with the 15-year-old textbooks and no air conditioning.

Being poor is thinking $8 an hour is a really good deal.

Being poor is relying on people who don’t give a damn about you.

Being poor is an overnight shift under florescent lights.

Being poor is finding the letter your mom wrote to your dad, begging him for the child support.

Being poor is a bathtub you have to empty into the toilet.

Being poor is stopping the car to take a lamp from a stranger’s trash.

Being poor is making lunch for your kid when a cockroach skitters over the bread, and you looking over to see if your kid saw.

Being poor is believing a GED actually makes a goddamned difference.

Being poor is people angry at you just for walking around in the mall.

Being poor is not taking the job because you can’t find someone you trust to watch your kids.

Being poor is the police busting into the apartment right next to yours.

Being poor is not talking to that girl because she’ll probably just laugh at your clothes.

Being poor is hoping you’ll be invited for dinner.

Being poor is a sidewalk with lots of brown glass on it.

Being poor is people thinking they know something about you by the way you talk.

Being poor is needing that 35-cent raise.

Being poor is your kid’s teacher assuming you don’t have any books in your home.

Being poor is six dollars short on the utility bill and no way to close the gap.

Being poor is crying when you drop the mac and cheese on the floor.

Being poor is knowing you work as hard as anyone, anywhere.

Being poor is people surprised to discover you’re not actually stupid.

Being poor is people surprised to discover you’re not actually lazy.

Being poor is a six-hour wait in an emergency room with a sick child asleep on your lap.

Being poor is never buying anything someone else hasn’t bought first.

Being poor is picking the 10 cent ramen instead of the 12 cent ramen because that’s two extra packages for every dollar.

Being poor is having to live with choices you didn’t know you made when you were 14 years old.

Being poor is getting tired of people wanting you to be grateful.

Being poor is knowing you’re being judged.

Being poor is a box of crayons and a $1 coloring book from a community center Santa.

Being poor is checking the coin return slot of every soda machine you go by.

Being poor is deciding that it’s all right to base a relationship on shelter.

Being poor is knowing you really shouldn’t spend that buck on a Lotto ticket.

Being poor is hoping the register lady will spot you the dime.

Being poor is feeling helpless when your child makes the same mistakes you did, and won’t listen to you beg them against doing so.

Being poor is a cough that doesn’t go away.

Being poor is making sure you don’t spill on the couch, just in case you have to give it back before the lease is up.

Being poor is a $200 paycheck advance from a company that takes $250 when the paycheck comes in.

Being poor is four years of night classes for an Associates of Art degree.

Being poor is a lumpy futon bed.

Being poor is knowing where the shelter is.

Being poor is people who have never been poor wondering why you choose to be so.

Being poor is knowing how hard it is to stop being poor.

Being poor is seeing how few options you have.

Being poor is running in place.

Being poor is people wondering why you didn’t leave.

I hope to rise about that, but with a diagnosis of skin cancer at 54, unlikely. However, I have hope and I do hope all, regardless of race do to.

Here is another post by same author:

http://whatever.scalzi.com/2009/04/01/reader-request-week-2009-5-having-been-poor/

X writes:

Reading your ‘being poor’ topic and having been under-monetized at points in my past, I’m wondering how you think that affects/should affect a person’s current lifestyle. Could being a packrat be related to that? Habitually looking at the price of everything just another case of OCD? How about being traumatized by the thought of throwing away leftover food?

It’s an interesting question. I don’t think having been poor at a certain point in one’s life should have to affect one’s lifestyle on a day to day basis; having been poor doesn’t necessarily have to afflict one with something akin to post-traumatic stress disorder when it comes to money, or have caused lasting damage to one’s psyche. I’m aware the sometimes it does, of course. But I’m also aware of people who handle that aspect of their past just fine, and don’t let their previous poverty fill with with either shame or apprehension. I’m pretty much in that boat, as far as I can tell: Having been poor when I was younger was not fun, but it’s not something I dwell on day to day. I have other things to fill up my time.

That said, speaking on a personal level, I am aware of some behaviors that I suspect have at least something to do with having been poor when I was a kid:

I tend to save a lot more of my income than most people I know, so that if the bottom drops out of my life, I have a cushion. And when I say “I” here, you should understand it to mean “we,” as it’s actually my wife who handles the family finances. Without going into actual figures, I suspect we save about 20% of our income on a yearly basis; the current national savings rate is about 4% at the moment (and not too long ago was rather a bit under that). Now, one reason that we can do that is that we make a comparatively large amount of income relative to the national average, so doing a large amount of saving does not cut into our spending on essentials or even much on our frivolities. But even when we made substantially less we were saving quite a lot.

I’m notably debt-adverse. Having seen first-hand how debt screws with people, neither I nor Krissy has much in the way of consumer debt. I use my Amex for most purchases I make so that I can have a paper trail for my accountant, but the Amex is a charge card, not a credit card, and I have to pay it off every month (Amex keeps trying to enroll me in the program that lets me carry a balance; I keep telling them that’s not why I use them). We have Visa cards as well and also use them, but keep the balance on them low enough that we could pay them off at once without making a dent in our savings.

Likewise, we don’t get fancy with the debt we do have, namely our mortgages: We have stable, predictable, boring 30-year mortgages on our properties, thus avoiding the drama of ARMs and other dumb ways to finance the place one lives.

I buy for value over flash: I’m not particularly cheap when it comes to high ticket items, but I also have a tendency to buy solidily performing objects over the hottest and coolest thing, partly because I intend to use whatever I’m buying for a fairly long time. This is why, as an example, the average life expectancy for a car in the Scalzi household is 12 years and climbing and why I still use a television I bought in 1991, and also why, when I buy a new computer, I pass the old one down to Athena. It’s also why I mildly resent cell phones at this point, since I know the Blackberry Storm I bought last November will have a usable lifespan of about two years, which doesn’t fit with my lifestyle choices, those bastards.

Related to the above, while not notably cheap in a day-to-day sense, you’re also not going to be seeing me spend conspicuously; my tastes and most of my enthusiasms are notably middle class at best. Part of this is the financial section of my brain asking “why are you spending money on that?” and if I can’t come up with a good answer for it, I tend not to buy it. Part of it is also a practical aspect of my personality (”what are you going to do with that?”) that keeps me from collecting things if I don’t have a use for them in more than a “gee, that’s pretty” aspect.

(This isn’t always true, of course: I bought the original artwork for the Old Man’s War hardcover for about half the advance for the book, primarily because you only have a first novel once, and I wanted a physical commemoration of that. On the other hand, that’s also probably the single most expensive thing I have in the house. The thing I spend the most on is books, which drives Krissy a little nuts, because I already have enough of those.)

(Related to this: I’m a bit of a packrat, but I don’t think it’s because I was once poor, it’s because a) I’m lazy and getting rid of stuff takes time and thought, and b) I tend to associate things with events around the time I got them, so it’s like getting rid of memories, and I’m sentimental bastard. I sort of need to get over that; at this point I have more crap than clear memories.)

All of the above can be summed up, I think, as: Don’t buy what you can’t afford, don’t buy what you don’t have use for and have enough on hand for when life whacks you upside the head. Which I think in general is good advice for anyone, but in practice tends to be an attitude of people who have experience with poverty one way or another.

(But not the attitude of everyone with experience with poverty, to be sure: there’s the flip side of this attitude, in which people who were formerly poor feel the need to show off their new perceived wealth through ostentatious display. I’ve been fortunate that my showing off gene did not feel the need to express itself that way.)

Note I don’t think these attitudes of mine are particularly virtuous one way or another; they’re simply attitudes that I’m comfortable with and which work for me. But I don’t doubt that the reason they are there has something to do with where I have been before in my life, in terms of poverty. There are worse ways for poverty to mark someone, to be sure. In this as well as in other ways, I’ve been pretty lucky.

(You can still get in requests for Reader Request Week! Put them in the comment thread at this link. Please note: I have all the writing questions I want to deal with already. Ask me something else.)

Sounds sane to me.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

Well if we just posted that article everywhere then poverty would be solved! A long article full of irrelevant personal anecdotes with no evidence = cure to poverty.

 

[Cancel5]

20% of the people you know get all (or most) of their income from government programs?

Hmmm...

The only person I really know on disability is my uncle, who has diabetes. I don't know many people who get welfare for their children either, but isn't that limited to like two years anyway?

The only persons I know on disability are a 32 year old Iraqi vet and a 21 year old who has seizures so severe he is not able to work, drive or do many other things some of us take for granted.

 

[Cancel5]

A big cyber-hug for you too.

Regardless of how differently we grew up, it is spirituality that we share today.

The good news is that in spite of my poor beginnings, education provided me the opportunity to be anything I wanted to be. I thank this country for that opportunity, but I especially thank those who fought, died, and suffered to ensure I had that opportunity .. many of them people just like you good sister.

I am who I am because of people like this ...

Viola Liuzzo

She had beginnings and a life much as you describe, but it wasn't enough. She had the courage to stand up for civil rights, and it cost her life.

I OWE a debt to this society .. I owe a debt to Viola Liuzzo .. and people just like you my Queen.

Why thank you, I just love the human race and I think we deserve more than we are getting right now. I saw my hard working, devoted father passed over because he didn't have a college education. He had thirty years of experience, but to some that doesn't seem to matter, he had customers that loved him and his honesty and that didn't seem to matter. He worked for the bank for 45 years and in the end, they took away some of the security they promised him for all those years of service.

It was then I knew I was forever an activist for the little guys! All those hard working fools who just want what they deserve and yet, some people just don't want that for them. My dad was also a WWII vet who didn't ask for and get shit from his government, like many vets. My husband won't sign up for the veterans care he deserves. He says he won't take anything from the government for his service because he feels in the end he was fucked, this is how many Vietnam era vets feel.

 

[apple0154]

Your PERSONAL issues Score is 70%.
Your ECONOMIC issues Score is 10%.

According to your answers, the political group that agrees with you most is...

Liberal

 

[blackascoal]

Annie,

Thanks for the articles .. I can relate.

As in the 2nd article, my poor beginnings have given me an insight I don't think I would have otherwise. It may be difficult for anyone to imagine how being poor ends up being beneficial, but I wouldn't change anything about how I grew up, only the pain others were suffering.

Additionally, even in the midst of poverty, there was family and community. There was love and compassion for people around us.

Priceless

I too have hope that your cancer will be controlled and you will continue to live the fiull and blessed life that you deserve.

 

[blackascoal]

Why thank you, I just love the human race and I think we deserve more than we are getting right now. I saw my hard working, devoted father passed over because he didn't have a college education. He had thirty years of experience, but to some that doesn't seem to matter, he had customers that loved him and his honesty and that didn't seem to matter. He worked for the bank for 45 years and in the end, they took away some of the security they promised him for all those years of service.

It was then I knew I was forever an activist for the little guys! All those hard working fools who just want what they deserve and yet, some people just don't want that for them. My dad was also a WWII vet who didn't ask for and get shit from his government, like many vets. My husband won't sign up for the veterans care he deserves. He says he won't take anything from the government for his service because he feels in the end he was fucked, this is how many Vietnam era vets feel.

Thank you good sister.

I could spend all day talking about the shit our vets get from the government .. especially those of the Vietnam Era.

While working for Congress I used to go to the VA in Atlanta to review care and to assist vets with problems they may be having. It was heartbreaking.

Rooms full of guys sitting in wheelchairs waiting to be seen by a doctor.

Lots of sad and ugly stuff too ugly to start the day with.

 

[apple0154]

I have a serious question and I hope you do not take this in the wrong way: Should someone who is healthy and able to work who chooses not to be supported by those who do?

Good question. The idea that there are sufficient numbers of such people is brought up by those opposed to social programs. The truth is healthy (both physically and emotionally) human beings strive to better their living conditions.

While there will always be exceptions the great majority of "lazy" people have limited education or skills or good health.

Welfare and similar government programs do not "support" people. They barely keep people above the starvation level. Another fault is the person is required to lose almost everythig they have before they qualify for assistance. All that does is result in the individual becoming despondent.

As a society we allow that to happen and then question why they lack ambition and self-esteem. Not only have we allowed that to happen but we insisted on it happening before offering help.

 

[evince]

I think we have seen what lack of regulations on the market produce already.