Tax by the mile and not by the gallon?

[SmarterthanYou]

Seems very libertarian to me.

right. libertarians, who prefer less taxes, wants a mileage driven tax. pretty fucking stupid.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Yeah . . . looks like I picked the wrong week to quit huffing glue.

All I can say is that if the S&P closes at or below 740.... duck and cover... because the next support levels are about 15-20% down.

 

[uscitizen]

Hey we are just getting started here.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

Yeah it needs tweaking, but seems to be the only way to maintain our roads for the long term.

bullshit. I thought you had a clue about economy matters and taxes? There is plenty of funding for general welfare purposes, like highway maintenance, if budgets were mapped out better.

If highway maintenance is so dependent upon higher taxes, why not just turn every damned road in america in to a toll road.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

AP Interview: Transportation secretary says taxing how much we drive may replace gasoline tax

By JOAN LOWY

Associated Press Writer

7:17 AM EST, February 20, 2009

WASHINGTON (AP) — Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood says he wants to consider taxing motorists based on how many miles they drive rather than how much gasoline they burn — an idea that has angered drivers in some states where it has been proposed.

Gasoline taxes that for nearly half a century have paid for the federal share of highway and bridge construction can no longer be counted on to raise enough money to keep the nation's transportation system moving, LaHood said in an interview with The Associated Press.

"We should look at the vehicular miles program where people are actually clocked on the number of miles that they traveled," the former Illinois Republican lawmaker said.

Most transportation experts see a vehicle miles traveled tax as a long-term solution, but Congress is being urged to move in that direction now by funding pilot projects.

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-lahood-vehicle-mileage-tax,0,6754105,print.story

Mileage tax - all the negatives, none of the positive of a gas tax.

 

[uscitizen]

bullshit. I thought you had a clue about economy matters and taxes? There is plenty of funding for general welfare purposes, like highway maintenance, if budgets were mapped out better.

If highway maintenance is so dependent upon higher taxes, why not just turn every damned road in america in to a toll road.

Umm as the price of oil went up consumption went down thereby taking down the per gallon tax. Plus the costs of road repair rose at the same time since much oil and oil byproducts are used in highway repair and maintenance.

I think a percentage tax on gas would be best if we do not go to the mileage tax. that way if the price of gas goes up so does the taxes to offset the additional highway repair costs.

 

[SmarterthanYou]

Umm as the price of oil went up consumption went down thereby taking down the per gallon tax. Plus the costs of road repair rose at the same time since much oil and oil byproducts are used in highway repair and maintenance.

how are taxes based on gasoline? If I remember right, it's an assigned amount, not an adjustable rate. Therefore, how does the tax on a gallon of gas go up or down if it's an assigned amount?

 

[Timshel]

right. libertarians, who prefer less taxes, wants a mileage driven tax. pretty fucking stupid.

Basing the tax/fee on usage is libertarian. Invading our privacy with GPS and all that is clearly not.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

Basing the tax/fee on usage is libertarian. Invading our privacy with GPS and all that is clearly not.

Which is why a libertarian would support the gas tax and not this idiocy.

The gas tax hits you based on usage... whether you drive a lot in a hybrid or drive a little in a Hummer.... you are using gas more due either to mileage or weight.... and thus being taxed more for it.

 

[Bonestorm]

Which is why a libertarian would support the gas tax and not this idiocy.

The gas tax hits you based on usage... whether you drive a lot in a hybrid or drive a little in a Hummer.... you are using gas more due either to mileage or weight.... and thus being taxed more for it.

The libertarian answer would be tolls, wouldn't it? Direct fee for use as opposed to an indirect fee for use through the gas tax. But then either (1) the subsidies would be laid more bare or (2) tolls would have to increase a hell of a lot.

 

[Timshel]

Which is why a libertarian would support the gas tax and not this idiocy.

The gas tax hits you based on usage... whether you drive a lot in a hybrid or drive a little in a Hummer.... you are using gas more due either to mileage or weight.... and thus being taxed more for it.

The amount of gas consumed is not directly related to how much you use public roads. A hybrid car driven 10000 miles on a public road is going to use the public road as much as a gas guzzler of the same weight driven 10000 miles on the public road. A lot of gas is consumed without any use of public roads whatsoever.

 

[uscitizen]

The libertarian answer would be tolls, wouldn't it? Direct fee for use as opposed to an indirect fee for use through the gas tax. But then either (1) the subsidies would be laid more bare or (2) tolls would have to increase a hell of a lot.

And how would we track all the tolls?

Toll booths every few miles?

GPS tracking?

No I think a percentage based gasoline tax is probably best.
Not one with a flat tax per gallon, but a sales type of tax on gas to replace the per gallon one.
It is the cheapest one to implement and non privacy invasive.
But will grow as our consumption and or price of fuel grows.

 

[Bonestorm]

And how would we track all the tolls?

Toll booths every few miles?

GPS tracking?

No I think a percentage based gasoline tax is probably best.
Not one with a flat tax per gallon, but a sales type of tax on gas to replace the per gallon one.

I'm not saying it's a good idea in practice, just a libertarian idea. The two are often mutually exclusive.

As for the percentage gasoline tax, I think that makes sense. A lot of states do it that way. The drawback being that when gas gets expensive, having both the state and federal taxes being percentage based could drive the price to quite high levels in some states.

 

[uscitizen]

I'm not saying it's a good idea in practice, just a libertarian idea. The two are often mutually exclusive.

As for the percentage gasoline tax, I think that makes sense. A lot of states do it that way. The drawback being that when gas gets expensive, having both the state and federal taxes being percentage based could drive the price to quite high levels in some states.

Yes which will encourage alternative sources and conservation. Good things.
As long as energy is relatively cheap we will stay on the Middle eastern oily teat.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

The amount of gas consumed is not directly related to how much you use public roads. A hybrid car driven 10000 miles on a public road is going to use the public road as much as a gas guzzler of the same weight driven 10000 miles on the public road. A lot of gas is consumed without any use of public roads whatsoever.

I know you believe global warming is a noahide hoax, but it's worth the "unfairness" to encourage energy-efficient vehicles.

 

[Bonestorm]

Yes which will encourage alternative sources and conservation. Good things.
As long as energy is relatively cheap we will stay on the Middle eastern oily teat.

But I think we have figured out the point at which gasoline prices will alter behavior and can set a fixed price accordingly without being overly punitive towards those that are required to use gasoline because of land use and development patterns in the United States in general.

 

[uscitizen]

Umm What gas guzzlers weigh the same as fuel efficient hybrids?

Maybe an astin martin or some exotic sports car?

Hybrids are pretty light.

 

[uscitizen]

But I think we have figured out the point at which gasoline prices will alter behavior and can set a fixed price accordingly without being overly punitive towards those that are required to use gasoline because of land use and development patterns in the United States in general.

We have? What is that value?

Getting off the middle eastern oily teat is not going to be painless at all.

 

[Timshel]

And how would we track all the tolls?

Toll booths every few miles?

GPS tracking?

No I think a percentage based gasoline tax is probably best.
Not one with a flat tax per gallon, but a sales type of tax on gas to replace the per gallon one.
It is the cheapest one to implement and non privacy invasive.
But will grow as our consumption and or price of fuel grows.

Ideally, it would all be privatized and there would likely be competing models, at least until one won out.

I was not advocating anything. Just pointing out that your comment that it was a libertarian solution is not all that far off base.

 

[Cancel 2016.2]

The amount of gas consumed is not directly related to how much you use public roads. A hybrid car driven 10000 miles on a public road is going to use the public road as much as a gas guzzler of the same weight driven 10000 miles on the public road. A lot of gas is consumed without any use of public roads whatsoever.

No it is not an exact science... but it penalizes people for driving more and for using less efficient vehichles.

Yes, the Hybrid SUV may drive the same mileage and be of similar weight to a regular SUV and the regular would end up paying more for the road. But the Hybrid SUV will pay more typically than the non-hybrid compacts assuming the same mileage.

So when looking at JUST wear and tear on the road, you are right... the hybrid SUV essentially has the same wear and tear on the road as the regular SUV.

Like I said, it is not a perfect system, but it is one that does penalize those who drive more or use less efficient vehicles.