That's odd...this isn't how Dictators act

Cypress

Well-known member
First, why would a "dictator" hold a vote, to amend a constitution to remove term limits so he could keep running for president. Why wouldn't he just declare himself president imperpituity?

Second, even if he held a vote, couldn't he just rig it? Especially since the final vote tally margin was razor thin, wouldn't it have been easy for him to "flip" the results?

For some strange reason I'm starting to think Venezuela is closer to being a democracy, than a dictatorship


Venezuelans Vote Against Allowing Chavez To Run Indefinitely

CARACAS, Venezuela — Humbled by his first electoral defeat ever, President Hugo Chavez said Monday he may have been too ambitious in asking voters to let him stand indefinitely for re-election and endorse a huge leap to a socialist state.

"I understand and accept that the proposal I made was quite profound and intense," he said after voters narrowly rejected the sweeping constitutional reforms by 51 percent to 49 percent.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20071203/venezuela-constitution/
 
The right wingnuts are totally bamboozled by this. However that doesn't stop them still banging on about how Chavez is a dictator. The latest propaganda seems to be, "you wait an' see, he'll kill his opposition and then do this thing again." :shock:
 
1.Why would a dictator hold a vote? See the electoral history of most dictators since 1945.

2.Couldn't he just rig it? Yes, but unusually he didn't, unlike another election held this week.

Conclusion?
Chavez is very popular but not "popular" to the point of automatic electoral consent. Imagine, eh? An actual 'backward' socialistic tin-pot country actually voting for something legitimately without the CIA sponsoring a coup, just in case. Amazing.
 
Haha wow. Yeah do you honestly believe what you're implying?

No fucking way.

What am i implying?

That given a choice Bush/Chavez the vast majority of Venezualans would vote for Hugo.

That given a choice Bush/Chavez in the US, Chavez may just run Bush close in terms of competence as a leader?
 
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What am i implying?

That given a choice Bush/Chavez the vast majority of Venezualans would vote for Hugo.

That given a choice Bush/Chavez in the US, Chavez may just run Bush close in terms of competence as a leader?

Charver, I like when you talk politics, you really haven't done that on here. I know you said you used to on FP, and trust me, I totally understand why you got tired of it.
 
I misread your post as you claiming that Chavez might be more popular than Bush in the US. That's why I edited my last one.

Of course he would be more popular in his own country.

And I absolutely hate Bush and Chavez in equal measure.
 
Charver, I like when you talk politics, you really haven't done that on here. I know you said you used to on FP, and trust me, I totally understand why you got tired of it.

It's very difficult to really get worked up about anything now. I go ballistic, on a daily basis, over the sleaze, incompetence and dishonesty in our own political system but as it's an American based board i try not to bring too much of my baggage into your check-in.

Now that most people see things for what they are nowadays, in America, there's very little to get to grips with in terms of political argument. I'm not qualified to discuss many of the purely American domestic issues which crop up so i tend to confine myself to the depths of the off-topic areas.

However, i may re-emerge at intermittent intervals. :D
 
First, why would a "dictator" hold a vote, to amend a constitution to remove term limits so he could keep running for president. Why wouldn't he just declare himself president imperpituity?

Second, even if he held a vote, couldn't he just rig it? Especially since the final vote tally margin was razor thin, wouldn't it have been easy for him to "flip" the results?

For some strange reason I'm starting to think Venezuela is closer to being a democracy, than a dictatorship

Hugo is no "dictator" according to lefties.....it was a fair election....

the Venezuelan recall referendum of 2004, according to the Center for Security Policy, "the [Hugo Chávez] regime delayed and obstructed the recall referendum process at every turn. Once the regime was forced to submit to such a referendum, moreover, it used a fraud-filled voting process to ensure victory. The government did everything—including granting citizenship to half a million illegal aliens in a crude vote-buying scheme and “migrating” existing voters away from their local election office—to fix the results in its favor. (Sounds just like the plans of the US Democrats)

The outcome was then affirmed and legitimated by ex-President Jimmy Carter’s near-unconditional support." "Jimmy Carter ignored pleas from the opposition and publicly endorsed the results, despite the fact that the government reneged on its agreement to carry out an audit of the results."[17] The Carter Center claims to have carried out the audit.[18] What a great American, go Jimmy, go!
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In August, 2006, following reported differences with Chávez during his recent international tour, Presidential Secretary Delcy Rodríguez was replaced by Adán Chávez, the brother of Hugo Chávez.

Adina Bastidas was appointed Production and Commerce Minister less than two weeks after she was fired as vice-president.[43] coming after weeks of protests against Chávez's economic policies,[44] was seen as a further radicalization of Chávez's government, according to the BBC

Human rights organization Amnesty International has catalogued a number of human rights violations under Chávez's administration.

April 9 and 11, the government required all radio and TV stations to transmit numerous speeches by President Chávez, other government officials, and other programming favorable to the Government, even shutting the signals of the stations who refused, in an attempt to block coverage of the demonstrations and ensuing violence

The National Assembly approved by a simple majority the controversial Law on the Social Responsibility of Radio and Television, or gag law, which, in effect, makes the private radio and television system part of the state, which controls its schedules, programs and content.

President Chávez announced that the operating license for RCTV — Venezuela's second largest TV channel which has been broadcasting for 53 years — will not be renewed.

The Economist reports that "Mr. Chávez has grasped all the powers of state into his own hands, and eliminated all independent oversight of his government.

The United Nations reported in 2005 that Venezuela had the highest number of deaths by gunfire per capita in the world.

How could this be mis-understood as the actions of a dictator?
In the eyes of the left...Hugo is just a great great leader
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Why do so many American lefties really love the guy...what makes so wonderful...why do they stick up for Hugo?
Well, its obvious why....hes on their side....he hates Bush too....

Chávez's foreign policy conduct and anti-Bush rhetoric has occasionally reached the level of personal attacks. In response to the ousting of Haitian President Jean-Bertrand Aristide in February 2004, Chávez referred to U.S. President George W. Bush as a pendejo. In a later speech, he made personal remarks regarding Condoleezza Rice, referring to her as a "complete illiterate" with regards to comprehending Latin America.

Another ally of the US left....:clink:
 
For Christ sake...you're the beacon of democracy for the free world and you've decided elections on the basis of questionable electronic voting machines, disenfranchisement of legitimate voters and an old pals act in a state controlled by the prospective President's brother. Fucking sweet, man.

You want to lecture Venezuela about democracy?
 
For Christ sake...you're the beacon of democracy for the free world and you've decided elections on the basis of questionable electronic voting machines, disenfranchisement of legitimate voters and an old pals act in a state controlled by the prospective President's brother. Fucking sweet, man.

You want to lecture Venezuela about democracy?

You're the ones who call us a beacon of democracy. We are not. But like any other free country we have those vigilant citizens who fight for accountability and transparency in elections.

These like-minded people, regardless of where they live, can and should criticize injustice and anti-democratic tactics in any country.

It is not only their right, it is their duty.
 
Not if you separate the bull from the bullshit....and realize that "questionable electronic voting machines, disenfranchisement of legitimate voters and an old pals act in a state controlled by the prospective President's brother" was just so much crap from the losers in an attempt to steal an election....

but thats beyond the Hugo topic...
 
For Christ sake...you're the beacon of democracy for the free world and you've decided elections on the basis of questionable electronic voting machines, disenfranchisement of legitimate voters and an old pals act in a state controlled by the prospective President's brother. Fucking sweet, man.

You want to lecture Venezuela about democracy?

Good points. I'm offering electoral system advice elsewhere (just being a cheeky bastard really) but it's not going down well :eek:
 
You're the ones who call us a beacon of democracy. We are not. But like any other free country we have those vigilant citizens who fight for accountability and transparency in elections.

These like-minded people, regardless of where they live, can and should criticize injustice and anti-democratic tactics in any country.

It is not only their right, it is their duty.

Actually, in Britain we've had the democracy thing for a while and tend to regard ourselves as top dogs on that score. Rather too boastful for my liking, but there's no accounting for taste.

However, many people around the world did see the US, at one time, as that beacon of democracy. Nobody takes any pleasure in the fact that it is no longer the case. OK some people do but they are, on the whole political hacks or simpletons.

Yes, you're right that people should fight injustice and work for democracy but expecting peoples who have been royally shafted by what they have seen as "democracy" in action to embrace that philosophy is a little optimistic, no? In order to succeed democracy has to fail by itself and not with the "help" of American or European meddling.
 
So Chavez will forever be beacon of democracy. Next time when he rigs it in his favor, there will be no questioning of the outcome allowed, with this spurious 'honesty' cited as proof.
 
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