The Bible and Sexuality - Op-Ed.

poet

Banned
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/amyjill-levine/the-bible-and-sexuality_b_1087405.html



The culture wars over family values have yet to reach détente and will not until the messiah comes (or returns, depending on the reader's affiliation). Battles continue over women's equality vs. a wife's graceful submission, no-fault divorce vs. attempts to strengthen marital bonds, the ordaining of gays and lesbians and the legalization of "gay marriage" vs. exhortations to "love the sinner but hate the sin," birth control and abortion, private sexual expression vs. public interest....

People who read the Bible often find themselves on the opposite sides of many of these issues. This does not mean that they are necessarily reading their texts incorrectly. Indeed, before we even ask, "What does the Bible say?" we need to ask, "Whose Bible?" Canons - and so, cannons - differ among various Christian churches as well as between Jews and Christians, as do translations. Moreover, the Bible is open to multiple interpretations: we need to determine what is metaphor and what is to be taken literally, what is case specific and what is timeless, what is a matter of personal choice and what should be legislated.

How then do we read in a manner that is grounded and thoughtful rather than uninformed or soporific? Here are five general guidelines.

One approach is to begin with the broad picture of what the Bible says about physical intimacy. Before addressing the various "Thou shalt nots," it is often salutary to look at the "Thou shalts" and the "Thou might want tos." For example, although traditionally read as a love song between God and Israel, or Christ and the Church, the Song of Solomon/Song of Songs celebrates physical intimacy between a man and a woman. Even Sarah, Abraham's menopausal wife, speaks of the pleasure she will have with her husband (Genesis 18:12, a verse easily remembered given the cannons in Tchaikovsky's 1812 overture). Ancient Hebrew women were not expected to lie back and think of Torah.

A second is to acknowledge that the Bible is often less a book of answers than a book that helps us ask the right questions. From the narratives of rape, we learn to listen for the voice of the victim; we find that sexual abuse happens in the best of families, including that of King David; we realize that revenge taken on the perpetrator of sexual abuse leads to more abuse, to war, to death; we discover that this crime, like that of adultery, impacts more than just the people directly involved: it impacts their extended families, and society as a whole. And it means knowing that the perpetrators as well as their families are also human beings, also in the image and likeness of the divine.

Third, we must read carefully. This means not simply looking at what the text says: it requires seeking accurate translation, knowing to the best of our ability why the text was written and what it meant to its original audience, determining how it has been interpreted over time and what other passages say concerning the same subject.

For example, the first interpreter of the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, the prophet Ezekiel, condemns Sodom not for homosexuality but for "pride, excess of food, and prosperous ease" and for failing to "aid the poor and needy" (Ezekiel 16:49). Nor does the story suggest that homosexuality is the problem. The Hebrew of Genesis 19 tells us that all the people of Sodom sought to "know" the two visitors: the people would have included the women, and they, like the men, died in the conflagration that destroyed their city. The problem is sexual violence, not homosexuality; attempted rape, not love.

As for the Levitical commandments typically cited as prohibiting homosexuality, the Hebrew is not as clear as some claim, and the historicizing rationales typically proposed for the injunctions - e.g., keeping up the birth rate, avoiding Canaanite practices -- lack foundation. Some readers even find the Levitical codes trumped by earlier pronouncements: given that Genesis 2:18 states that it is not good for the human being to be alone, they cannot support condemning gay people to lives of singleness and solitude.

Fourth, we do well to recognize that biblical standards are not always our standards, and nor should they be. The Bible makes adultery a capital crime; if that legislation were put into practice, we'd knock out a third of our population. King Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines; we become apoplectic over bigamy.

Fifth, we should continually reassess our views. If we ignore tradition, experience, science, and the personal testimony of our neighbors and look only to Scripture, we become bibliolators: we turn the Bible into an idol. And if we listen to those with whom we disagree rather than dismiss them as benighted literalists or atheistic relativists, then at the very least we might be able to avoid the demonization that usually comes with the culture wars.



So, to those whom it may concern about condemning homosexuality: STFU.
 
As for the Levitical commandments typically cited as prohibiting homosexuality, the Hebrew is not as clear as some claim


actually, it is, if we follow rule #3

we must read carefully. This means not simply looking at what the text says: it requires seeking accurate translation, knowing to the best of our ability why the text was written and what it meant to its original audience, determining how it has been interpreted over time and what other passages say concerning the same subject

I don't know if you've ever taken the time to look at the original text I pointed out to you.......I do know you haven't had the nerve to mention it, if you have......
 
actually, it is, if we follow rule #3



I don't know if you've ever taken the time to look at the original text I pointed out to you.......I do know you haven't had the nerve to mention it, if you have......

Absolutely not. When folks first come "disingenuously, they can't expect, at a later date, to be taken seriously, or conventionally. You are attempting to put your interpretation on the table...I'm not buying it...I have my own interpretation, which I go by. You can call it bogus, invalid, or insane. It wouldn't matter one iota, because your reality is not mine.
And if you can, at least wrap your brain around that, then you'll understand how much time you've been wasting trying to convince me that you're right.
 
Absolutely not. When folks first come "disingenuously, they can't expect, at a later date, to be taken seriously, or conventionally. You are attempting to put your interpretation on the table...I'm not buying it...I have my own interpretation, which I go by. You can call it bogus, invalid, or insane. It wouldn't matter one iota, because your reality is not mine.
And if you can, at least wrap your brain around that, then you'll understand how much time you've been wasting trying to convince me that you're right.

so you admit you haven't looked at the original text because you like YOUR interpretation better......good job of trashing the strategy you outlined in your OP......and to clear the air, I'm not trying to convince you that you're right.....I'm trying to convince everyone else you're wrong......
 
so you admit you haven't looked at the original text because you like YOUR interpretation better......good job of trashing the strategy you outlined in your OP......and to clear the air, I'm not trying to convince you that you're right.....I'm trying to convince everyone else you're wrong......

And? That goes without saying. Why would I entertain a rightie, trying to punch holes in my position, based on his belief system? Duh. It's what you believe....not me.
It took me some time to arrive at my present day position....through much soul searching and internal flogging. And I'm not about to alter my conclusions, simply because you're uncomfortable with it. What is disturbing is why you're so concerned. And you can't convince anyone of shit, as raggedy as your act is. But you keep trying, you hear?
 
.through much soul searching and internal flogging. And I'm not about to alter my conclusions, simply because you're uncomfortable with it.

if you came to your conclusions through soul searching and flogging, why didn't you post an article about soul searching and flogging instead of about reading scripture?...........it's rather pointless to pretend scripture backs you up when it so obviously doesn't.....
 
if you came to your conclusions through soul searching and flogging, why didn't you post an article about soul searching and flogging instead of about reading scripture?...........it's rather pointless to pretend scripture backs you up when it so obviously doesn't.....

Why can't you stop? I don't care for your proselytizing. Scripture is and has always been open to interpretation. Folks have used scripture for everything from justification for slavery to war. How aligned are you with it? God will be the judge...meantime, back at the ranch, chores are going undone, because you, in your holier-than-thou, self-righteous vigor, have taken it upon yourself to flog me, publicly, for my reprobate mind. Jesus said, "he who is without sin, cast the first stone".....that wouldn't be you, bitch.
 
the only flogging I've engaged in deals with your attempts to justify your beliefs with misused scriptures......I have offered you, and our readers, a way to examine the original text......you've indicated you have no intention of doing so, obviously because you're afraid to totter your house of cards......

you should anticipate my continued response any time you claim "the scriptures say" in instances where it is easily determined that it doesn't......
 
Who would name their child "Op"?

;) <- for the humorless left, this winky means this is sarcasm. It refers to a previous post that you may be able to find if you are particularly clever.
 
Who would name their child "Op"?

;) <- for the humorless left, this winky means this is sarcasm. It refers to a previous post that you may be able to find if you are particularly clever.

Why can't you stop? I don't care for your proselytizing. Smilies are and have always been open to interpretation. Folks have used smilies for everything from embarassement :o to anger :fu:. How aligned are you with it? The readers will be the judge...meantime, back at the ranch, chores are going undone, because you, in your holier-than-thou, self-righteous vigor, have taken it upon yourself to flog us, publicly, for our reprobate mind. Jesus said, "he who is without sin, cast the first stone".....that wouldn't be you.

:chesh:
 
the only flogging I've engaged in deals with your attempts to justify your beliefs with misused scriptures......I have offered you, and our readers, a way to examine the original text......you've indicated you have no intention of doing so, obviously because you're afraid to totter your house of cards......

you should anticipate my continued response any time you claim "the scriptures say" in instances where it is easily determined that it doesn't......

Which is why I have you on ignore, and from time to time, view your posts to see if there is any substance....to no avail. Insanity is also defined as doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Insane no more.
 
if you came to your conclusions through soul searching and flogging, why didn't you post an article about soul searching and flogging instead of about reading scripture?...........it's rather pointless to pretend scripture backs you up when it so obviously doesn't.....

Oh, but it does back him up. I could give you many Biblical scholars works who agree with poet and more are coming to this conclusion. My favorite, that I buy and hand out to my homophobic friends and relatives, "What the Bible Really Says About Homosexuality", Daniel A. helminiak, PhD, foreword by John S. Spong, Episcopal Bishop of Newark, NJ.

Another very good one, "Embodiment, An Approach to Sexuality and Christian Theology, James Nelson, Professor of Christian Ethics, United Theology Seminary of the Twin Cities.

John Boswell of Yale, Daniel Boyarin, California-Berkeley, Bernadette Brooten of Brandeis University, Victor P. Furnish of Southern Methodist University, Saul M. only an of Brown University, believe and have shown that those who preceive the Bible passages as condemning homosexuality are being misled by faulty translation and poor interpretation.

So many great books. If you would like more suggestions, please let me know.
 
Oh, but it does back him up. I could give you many Biblical scholars works who agree with poet and more are coming to this conclusion. My favorite, that I buy and hand out to my homophobic friends and relatives, "What the Bible Really Says About Homosexuality", Daniel A. helminiak, PhD, foreword by John S. Spong, Episcopal Bishop of Newark, NJ.

Another very good one, "Embodiment, An Approach to Sexuality and Christian Theology, James Nelson, Professor of Christian Ethics, United Theology Seminary of the Twin Cities.

John Boswell of Yale, Daniel Boyarin, California-Berkeley, Bernadette Brooten of Brandeis University, Victor P. Furnish of Southern Methodist University, Saul M. only an of Brown University, believe and have shown that those who preceive the Bible passages as condemning homosexuality are being misled by faulty translation and poor interpretation.

So many great books. If you would like more suggestions, please let me know.
Right. Now watch as he, impotently, tries to take you to task. A losing proposition. LOL.
 
Oh, but it does back him up. I could give you many Biblical scholars works who agree with poet and more are coming to this conclusion. My favorite, that I buy and hand out to my homophobic friends and relatives, "What the Bible Really Says About Homosexuality", Daniel A. helminiak, PhD, foreword by John S. Spong, Episcopal Bishop of Newark, NJ.

Another very good one, "Embodiment, An Approach to Sexuality and Christian Theology, James Nelson, Professor of Christian Ethics, United Theology Seminary of the Twin Cities.

John Boswell of Yale, Daniel Boyarin, California-Berkeley, Bernadette Brooten of Brandeis University, Victor P. Furnish of Southern Methodist University, Saul M. only an of Brown University, believe and have shown that those who preceive the Bible passages as condemning homosexuality are being misled by faulty translation and poor interpretation.

So many great books. If you would like more suggestions, please let me know.

how do they get past the obstacle of the original text of Leviticus?......or like poet, do they not even bother to look at it.......
 
Why can't you stop? I don't care for your proselytizing. Scripture is and has always been open to interpretation. Folks have used scripture for everything from justification for slavery to war. How aligned are you with it? God will be the judge...meantime, back at the ranch, chores are going undone, because you, in your holier-than-thou, self-righteous vigor, have taken it upon yourself to flog me, publicly, for my reprobate mind. Jesus said, "he who is without sin, cast the first stone".....that wouldn't be you, bitch.

The modern school of thought does not agree with PMP. He is still in the Dark Ages with his thinking. Again, PMP, read today's scholars, or those in the recent past for enlightenment, may I suggest, Daniel A. Helminiak, PhD or James B. Nelson, or Daniel Boyarin, or bailey D Sherwin, Tom Horner, Victor Paul Furnish, John Boswell, Robin Scroggs, David F Wright, William L Petersen, Richard B Hayes, l. William Countryman, Lynne. c. Boughton, John Boswell, Samuel Olyan, just to name a few.

My favorite, Helminiak, Daniel A. "What the Bible Really Says About Homosexuality"
 
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