The Church should respect tough questions

[Yakuda]

There may be. Just not the personal, interactive, omni-everything Christian one. No doubt about that.

Prove it

Not sure how much more simply I can make this but I'll try again.

I FAIL TO BELIEVE IN GOD.

That's pretty simple. It really, really is. Even for someone like you.

Why does that frighten you so much?

The question isnt what you fail to believe in.

There are idiots that fail to believe the world is round.

According to you there is no God, correct?

 

[Kafka]

The question isnt what you fail to believe in.

Yes it is.

There are idiots that fail to believe the world is round.

According to you there is no God, correct?

I fail to believe in God. It's pretty simple. Even if you don't like it.

Not sure why this scares you so, but trust me, it isn't intended to. Just accept what people say about themselves.

 

[Yakuda]

Yes it is.



I fail to believe in God. It's pretty simple. Even if you don't like it.

Not sure why this scares you so, but trust me, it isn't intended to. Just accept what people say about themselves.

That's not the same question. You know it and I know it. There are other idiots who fail believe that the earth is round. Is the earth not round?

The question of whether God exists or not has nothing to do with what you believe or don't believe. God either exists or doesnt exist regardless of my belief and your apparent non belief. You don't even have conviction in your own beliefs. You claim there is zero likelihood God exist but can't say there is no God.

 

[Kafka]

That's not the same question. You know it and I know it. There are other idiots who fail believe that the earth is round. Is the earth not round?

Why do atheists threaten you so? You don't want to listen to what they tell you so how on earth can you possibly ever get over your terror of them?

The question of whether God exists or not

Unlike you I am not under the impression that I am perfect and have all knowledge. I can only tell you what I believe in or fail to believe in.

I fail to believe in God.

That is literally ALL I CAN DO. I hope you will understand but I am guessing you can't. It's too subtle a point and you don't have the ability to think that deeply.

has nothing to do with what you believe or don't believe. God either exists or doesnt exist regardless of my belief and your apparent non belief. You don't even have conviction in your own beliefs. You claim there is zero likelihood God exist but can't say there is no God.

I can only tell you that I fail to believe in God.

Not sure why that threatens so many of you but I can only guess it is because your "faith" is SO WEAK that it can't stand the mere existence of anyone who might think differently from you.

 

[Yakuda]

Why do atheists threaten you so? You don't want to listen to what they tell you so how on earth can you possibly ever get over your terror of them?



Unlike you I am not under the impression that I am perfect and have all knowledge. I can only tell you what I believe in or fail to believe in.

I fail to believe in God.

That is literally ALL I CAN DO. I hope you will understand but I am guessing you can't. It's too subtle a point and you don't have the ability to think that deeply.



I can only tell you that I fail to believe in God.

Not sure why that threatens so many of you but I can only guess it is because your "faith" is SO WEAK that it can't stand the mere existence of anyone who might think differently from you.

What a coward. You're a chicken shit coward.

 

[Cypress]

Yep. The immaterial. That feeling I get when I ponder the amazing things I see about me. Damn incorporeal, those emotions. Damn immaterial, that sense of awe.

Thanks for that validation of spiritual.

I know enough about the religion that affects us most in this country to know that is based on pure fucking myth. Hocum. Starting with the mythical storm god in the pantheon of gods, to the evolution to the angry and cruel monotheistic one, to the bizarre belief of a virgin birth and a divine man/god that was supposedly resurrected after death. And do not forget that twisted concept of a Trinity that the Christians took about 4 centuries to concoct. You know, that concept that not one fucking Christian can explain?

Fuck, man. Which is MORE spiritual? Being in awe of the immenseness, beauty and wonder of the universe or that your eternal life depends on your belief in the resurrection myth?

I agree that being awestruck by the activity of stargazing is a very real sensation. I was electrified the first time a friend pointed out the Andromeda Galaxy frim a dark, star splashed mountain top.

I've never heard it described as a transcendent spiritual experience.

Belief in an incorporeal and immaterial transcendent reality unprovable by science is not something that comports with the materialistic scientism atheists have been hollering about on message boards for decades.

Pantheism, Pantheism, Deism are all types of religions or spiritual belief systems that some atheists seem keen to hijack and shoehorn to fit under the umbrella of atheism. Atheists will sometimes even try to hijack Buddhism and agnosticism.

The only two reasons two reasons I can think to warrant this strategy is a reticence to actually embrace a strictly materialistic and reductionist view of the universe and human life; and a desire to exaggerate the amount of people actually affiliated with atheism.

 

[Hume]

I agree that being awestruck by the activity of stargazing is a very real sensation. I was electrified the first time a friend pointed out the Andromeda Galaxy on a dark mountain top night.

I've never heard it described as a transcendent spiritual experience.

Belief in an incorporeal and immaterial transcendent reality unprovable by science is not something that comports with the materialistic scientism atheists have been hollering about on message boards for decades.

Pantheism, Pantheism, deism are all types of religions of spiritual belief systems that some atheists seem keen to hijack and squeeze or shoehorn under the umbrella of atheism. Atheists will sometimes even try to hijack Buddhism and agnosticism.

The only two reasons two reasons I can think to warrant this strategy if a reticence to actually embrace a strictly materialistic and reductionist view of the universe and human life; and and a desire to exaggerate the amount of people actually affiliated with atheism.

So, to you, atheism is just a belief by scientists that only matter is real, that is, physicalism.

 

[Cypress]

atheism today is a movement to destroy morality and lead people to great spiritual evils.



of course there are people who don't believe in stuff, but they're not generally willing to spend hours about it debating online unless the SPIRITUALITY OF OTHERS is their agenda.

see "demoralization agenda".

Hogwash

 

[Cypress]

So, to you, atheism is just a belief by scientists that only matter is real, that is, physicalism.

I've been yelled at for years by enough atheists that beliefs have to be confirmed empirically and by scientific investigation.

This new concept of the 'religious' atheist who contemplates the night sky are percieves a deep incorporeal transcendental spiritual reality and a higher truth, is just an attempt to hijack pantheism, panentheism, or Deism.

 

[Ross Dolan]

You don't understand atheism.

I am pretty sure I do understand atheism.

Fair enough.

Thank you for that.

You are an agnostic so you don't have to know anything about anything else.

You don't understand agnosticism.

Fair enough, though.

 

[Hume]

I've been yelled at by enough atheists that beliefs have to be confirmed empirically and by scientific investigation.

This concept of the 'religious' atheist who contemplates the night sky are percieves a transcendental spiritual reality and a high truth, is just an attempt to hijack pantheism or Deism.

Very specific. Physicalists might be atheists but atheism is not defined as materialism.

 

[Litmus]

Hogwash

I stand by every word.

do you have a rebuttal, cletus?

 

[Ross Dolan]

I agree that being awestruck by the activity of stargazing is a very real sensation. I was electrified the first time a friend pointed out the Andromeda Galaxy frim a dark, star splashed mountain top.

I've never heard it described as a transcendent spiritual experience.

Belief in an incorporeal and immaterial transcendent reality unprovable by science is not something that comports with the materialistic scientism atheists have been hollering about on message boards for decades.

Pantheism, Pantheism, Deism are all types of religions or spiritual belief systems that some atheists seem keen to hijack and shoehorn to fit under the umbrella of atheism. Atheists will sometimes even try to hijack Buddhism and agnosticism.

The only two reasons two reasons I can think to warrant this strategy is a reticence to actually embrace a strictly materialistic and reductionist view of the universe and human life; and a desire to exaggerate the amount of people actually affiliated with atheism.

BINGO!

 

[Cypress]

Very specific. Physicalists might be atheists but atheism is not defined as materialism.

Genuine atheism does not involve contemplating the night sky and experiencing the perception of an incorporeal, immaterial transcendental spiritual reality.

That's just an atheist who is reluctant to call themselves a pantheist, transcendentalist, or Deist.

I get the reticence and reluctance. Scientism, materialism, or a belief that no reality or truth exists apart from subatomic particles strikes most people as very cynical and empty of meaning.

 

[Hume]

Genuine atheism does not involve contemplating the night sky and experiencing the perception of an incorporeal, immaterial transcendental spiritual reality.

That's just an atheist who is reluctant to call themselves a pantheist, transcendentalist, or Deist.

I get the reticence and reluctance. Scientism, materialism, or a belief that no reality or truth exists apart from subatomic particles strikes most people as very cynical and empty of meaning.

Okay. But I do not think atheism is confined to physicalism. Atheism can mean simply that one does not believe in the Christian god.

 

[Cypress]

I stand by every word.

do you have a rebuttal, cletus?

Your insinuation that atheists can't follow a moral code is beyond stupid

 

[Litmus]

Your insinuation that atheists can't follow a moral code is beyond stupid

I didn't say they couldn't.

I'm saying they won't even discuss it.

 

[Cypress]

Okay. But I do not think atheism is confined to physicalism. Atheism can mean simply that one does not believe in the Christian god.

Don't take my word for it.

Message board atheists have, for decades, hollered that beliefs have to be confirmed empirically or by the scientific method.

Suddenly, I am expected to believe in 'religious' atheists who hold spiritual beliefs and have transcendental spiritual experiences, which are best described as Pantheism

 

[Hume]

Don't take my word for it.

Message board atheists have, for decades, hollered that beliefs have to be confirmed empirically or by the scientific method.

Suddenly, I am expected to believe in 'religious' atheists who hold spiritual beliefs and have transcendtal spiritual experiences, which are best described as Pantheism.

I have no idea what you are reading. That is not germane to my comment.

 

[Ross Dolan]

Genuine atheism does not involve contemplating the night sky and experiencing the perception of an incorporeal, immaterial transcendental spiritual reality.

That's just an atheist who is reluctant to call themselves a pantheist, transcendentalist, or Deist.

I get the reticence and reluctance. Scientism, materialism, or a belief that no reality or truth exists apart from subatomic particles strikes most people as very cynical and empty of meaning.

My point has been that anyone who wants to call him/herself an "atheist" can do so for whatever reason he/she wants to. Some people who identify as atheists claim that they are atheists JUST because they lack a belief in God (or gods). But my experience is that every one of them actually has a second reason (perhaps hidden from them) that involoves either:

...a "belief" that there are no gods...or...

...a "belief" that it is more likely that there are no gods than that there is at least one.