The Church should respect tough questions

Obtenebrator said:
"Genuine atheism" = "Whatever Cypress wants it to be and ONLY that."


Ahhh, so you are AFRAID of atheism. That makes sense. You need that bit of "magic" in your world.


Try listening to what people say in debates. Don't just assume you are the god of all things knowledge.
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I am one of the few that claims to be agnostic and ignorant of the truth claims of both religions and atheism.

Being a god of knowledge seems to be a weird conclusion you reached in your own mind about me.

Agnosticism is easy to describe. I haven't made a decision one way or the other.

Atheists don't seem to be able to articulate what they actually believe, or else they are reluctant to embrace the unambiguous physical materialism NiftyNiblick is so capable of describing and embracing.
 
Cypress said:
I am one of the few that claims to be agnostic and ignorant of the truth claims of both religions and atheism.

Being a god of knowledge seems to be a weird conclusion you reached in your own mind about me.

Agnosticism is easy to describe. I haven't made a decision one way or the other.

Atheists don't seem to be able to articulate what they actually believe, or else they are reluctant to embrace the unambiguous physical materialism NiftyNiblick is so capable of describing and embracing.
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I articulate what I believe all the time. Maybe debate people you disagree with occasionally.
 
Cypress said:
I am one of the few that claims to be agnostic and ignorant of the truth claims of both religions and atheism.
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And that's fine. I think agnostics usually don't apply the term consistently but having that position is not a problem for me.

Cypress said:
Being a god of knowledge seems to be a weird conclusion you reached in your own mind about me.
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Why? You remind everyone how widely read you are and it is true. You seem extremely widely read.

Cypress said:
Agnosticism is easy to describe. I haven't made a decision one way or the other.
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And that's fine. You make plenty of decisions on imperfect data all the time, but I'm OK with you keeping "God" in a special bucket.

Cypress said:
Atheists don't seem to be able to articulate what they actually believe, or else they are reluctant to embrace the unambiguous physical materialism NiftyNiblick is so capable of describing and embracing.
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I have articulated my position quite clearly. But you hate me a lot so it clouds your ability to grok what I'm writing or posting. You seem most annoyed that I am taking a position that is a defensible position rather than taking an absurd position that I couldn't possibly support.
 
Obtenebrator said:
Oh, sorry, it's actually a "standard topic" in theology and philosophy. I thought you were familiar with those topics.



I'll wait for you to learn a bit more about the topic. Sorry, I keep forgetting that most believers never think too deeply about their faith.
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I am quite familiar with the topic and I noticed you can't or won't tell me why it's a problem that needs a solution. BTW I gave you the solution.

I would run away too if I was you. Believe me you don't possess the skills you would need to have to insult or embarrass me off the topic.
 
Yakuda said:
I am quite familiar with the topic
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Clearly you aren't since you asked about it. And your "solution" isn't the solution that relates to the topic. The topic is: "Why would an all-loving, all-powerful, all-knowing God allow pain and suffering (especially of innocents)".

There are many solutions proposed. Just curious what yours is. But since you clearly had never heard the phrase before you don't seem to have one formulated.

Yakuda said:
and I noticed you can't or won't tell me why it's a problem that needs a solution. BTW I gave you the solution.
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Hopefully it is clearer now. Go read some about it. You can find it all over the place.

Yakuda said:
I would run away too if I was you. Believe me you don't possess the skills needed to insult or embarrass me off the topic.
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By all means. Feel free to invoke whatever exegetical reasoning you come up with, or rely on Leibniz or whatever floats your boat.
 
Obtenebrator said:
Clearly you aren't since you asked about it. And your "solution" isn't the solution that relates to the topic. The topic is: "Why would an all-loving, all-powerful, all-knowing God allow pain and suffering (especially of innocents)".

There are many solutions proposed. Just curious what yours is. But since you clearly had never heard the phrase before you don't seem to have one formulated.



Hopefully it is clearer now. Go read some about it. You can find it all over the place.



By all means. Feel free to invoke whatever exegetical reasoning you come up with, or rely on Leibniz or whatever floats your boat.
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I want YOU to tell me what the "problem" of evil is and why it needs to be "solved". Can you do that, "Yes" or "No"? Look at the bright side I couldnt possibly think any less of you if you answer "No".
 
Cypress said:
I think I agree with most of that.

I also think there is something few people are willing to talk about. Genuine atheism, by necessity and taken to it's logical conclusion, means a rejection of the possibility of any eternal meaning, any higher transcendent truth, any ultimate purpose or meaning for us in this universe.


That is a very cynical and nihilistic pill to swallow, and I think is why so many of them dance on the edge of pantheism, Deism, transcendentalism, being forever reticent to fully embrace a materialistic reductionist view of the universe and human life.
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yes. nihilism is the poison pill.

you're getting warmer.
 
Blackwater Lunchbreak said:
yes. nihilism is the poison pill.
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There are a lot of things in reality that don't make me happy. Am I free to simply ignore them too?

I get it, though. It's the fear of an uncaring, meaningless universe in which you aren't the "Crown of Creation". It IS a tough pill for some people to swallow. I agree with Cypress. Some people are just too scared to consider that maybe the emperor has no clothes.

Some people need the "magic".

 
Obtenebrator said:
I LITERALLY just typed it out for you in the previous post.
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And I addressed the "omnis" well before you posted them. It's same old sad arguments. They've been spewed thousands of times and are not more effective after they many times than the first time they were traipsed out. They certainly don't disprove the existence of God and not one of you "geniuses" has ever shown how they might.
 
Obtenebrator said:
There are a lot of things in reality that don't make me happy. Am I free to simply ignore them too?
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yes.
Obtenebrator said:
I get it, though. It's the fear of an uncaring, meaningless universe in which you aren't the "Crown of Creation". It IS a tough pill for some people to swallow. I agree with Cypress. Some people are just too scared to consider that maybe the emperor has no clothes.

Some people need the "magic".
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life is what you make it.
 
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Yakuda said:
And I addressed the "omnis" well before you posted them. It's same old sad arguments. They've been spewed thousands of times and are not more effective after they many times than the first time they were traipsed out.
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So what's the solution? Is this Leibniz's "Best of all Possible Worlds"? Or do you have another solution?
 
Yakuda said:
I told you already. Is someone reading my responses to you and not reading them in their entirety?
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Whatev, dude. I don't really care what YOU think so I'll just leave it. You think you answered it yet you don't even know what it is. Weird but whatever.
 
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