The coming loss in Iraq

C

Cypress

Well-known member
Politicians are afraid to say it. Media pundits won't dare touch it.

But (IMO), this is the reality. Iraq is lost. None of the so-called reasons we went to war will play out. No pro-american democracy will take root there. And do we even need to mention WMD?

Dem politicians won't say this. Well, Reid said it once, and then shut up after the wingnutosphere savaged him. Cons won't say it. To admit it, is to admit thier war, their foreign policy, and their ideology is and was a massive failure.

So, I'll say it: We've lost in Iraq. We (i.e., Bush) is just running out the clock. There will be no jeffersonian pro-american democracy in Iraq. Who knows what we're fighting for at this point. Ego? Stubborness? And unwillingness to be called "weak on terror".

This dude is right. This will probably go down in history and the worst american foreign policy blunder ever. Unless some miracle happens, which I doubt.


Christopher J. Fettweis: Coming loss in Iraq will long plague us

The Vietnam syndrome divided this country for decades, and the Iraq syndrome will be no different.

Losing hurts more than winning feels good. This maxim applies to virtually all areas of human interaction: sports, finance, love. And war.
Defeat in war damages societies quite out of proportion to what a rational calculation of cost would predict. The United States absorbed the loss in Vietnam quite easily on paper, for example, but the societal effects of defeat linger to this day. Defeats can have seemingly inexplicable consequences.

And as any sports fan can tell you, the only thing that feels worse than a loss is an upset. An upset demands explanation and requires that responsible parties be punished.

The endgame in Iraq is now clear, and it appears that the heavily favored United States will be upset. Once support for a war is lost, it is gone for good; there is no example of a modern democracy having changed its mind once it turned against a war. So we ought to start coming to grips with the meaning of losing in Iraq.

The consequences are likely to be profound, throwing American politics into a downward spiral of bitter recriminations the likes of which it has not seen in a generation. It will be a wedge that politicians will exploit for their benefit. The Vietnam syndrome divided this country for decades; the Iraq syndrome will be no different.

The battle for interpretation already has begun, with fingers of blame pointed in all directions. The war's supporters have staked out their position: Attacking Iraq was strategically sound but operationally flawed. Key decisions on troop levels, de-Baathification, the disbanding of the Iraqi army and the like doomed what otherwise would have been a glorious war.

The American people seem to understand, however -- and historians will certainly agree -- that the war itself was a catastrophic mistake. It was a faulty grand strategy, not poor implementation. The Bush administration was operating under an illusion, one that is further discredited with every car bombing of a crowded Baghdad marketplace and every Iraqi doctor who packs up his family and flees his country.

At some point during the recriminations to come, let us hope the American people will seize the opportunity to ask themselves fundamental questions about the role and purpose of U.S. power in the world. How much influence can the United States have in the Middle East? Is its oil worth American blood and treasure? Might we not be better off just leaving the region alone?

continued

http://www.startribune.com/562/story/1244295.html
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Cypress, I'm afraid they are going to try and circumvent the full force of the Vietnam syndrome by going to a huge bombing campaign of Iran, giving the American people a much-needed ego boost so that they can still feel good about their "USA, we're number 1" t-shirts. And, it's ok if we have to kill a lot of innocent people in order to accomplish this.

I know a lot of people don't believe we are going to bomb Iran, but I smell it coming.
 
it is a desired thing for many Darla. to supress Iran would secure the gulf area pretty much. Well except for that pesky civil war in iraq. And we might trigger one in Iran as well. and what will pakistan do if we bomb Iran ? Nothing ? Remember they do have THE BOMB.
 
Darla said:
Cypress, I'm afraid they are going to try and circumvent the full force of the Vietnam syndrome by going to a huge bombing campaign of Iran, giving the American people a much-needed ego boost so that they can still feel good about their "USA, we're number 1" t-shirts. And, it's ok if we have to kill a lot of innocent people in order to accomplish this.

I know a lot of people don't believe we are going to bomb Iran, but I smell it coming.
Click to expand...


Hmmmmm. You think so? You might be right. Good God, that's a scary prospect.

I have noticed that Bush adminstration officials keep making unsubstantiated assertions about Iran supporting __________(insert: Taliban, Insurgent, Militias here), and about the state of an alleged Iran nuclear weapons program.

Coincidence? Probably not.
 
Geez, about 7 months ago I told you to start watching for when they redeploy anti-missile technology to Iraq, Kuwait, and other surrounding territories, that coupled with more Aircraft Carriers in the Gulf. At that point you will know they are going to attack Iran.

There already are more Aircraft Carriers, you remember the whole Brits being hostages thing... so we need to start watching for more of the missile defense tech.
 
Bush has already said this will be the next President's problem. Cy, you're right. He's running out the clock so when the next President (no doubt a Democrat) withdrawals troops, they can be blamed for losing the war or not finishing Bush's plan which they'll say would have worked if we had only stuck with it for another 40 or 50 years.
 
Cypress said:
Politicians are afraid to say it. Media pundits won't dare touch it.

But (IMO), this is the reality. Iraq is lost. None of the so-called reasons we went to war will play out. No pro-american democracy will take root there. And do we even need to mention WMD?

Dem politicians won't say this. Well, Reid said it once, and then shut up after the wingnutosphere savaged him. Cons won't say it. To admit it, is to admit thier war, their foreign policy, and their ideology is and was a massive failure.

So, I'll say it: We've lost in Iraq. We (i.e., Bush) is just running out the clock. There will be no jeffersonian pro-american democracy in Iraq. Who knows what we're fighting for at this point. Ego? Stubborness? And unwillingness to be called "weak on terror".

This dude is right. This will probably go down in history and the worst american foreign policy blunder ever. Unless some miracle happens, which I doubt.
Click to expand...

wwwwhhhhaaaat.... the left has been saing we lost dame near from the getgo
 
C'mon Bob...

bob said:
do you guys belive the big oil is conspiring to keep oil as the US's main source or energy ?
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Get real..ya bought the coolaid already..stick with the Regay(pun ) music already( I like this music when kept in perspective) Soul rocks as dose reygay...lol:pke:
 
Battleborne said:
Get real..ya bought the coolaid already..stick with the Regay(pun ) music already( I like this music when kept in perspective) Soul rocks as dose reygay...lol:pke:
Click to expand...

what do you mean by get real ? it was a simple question.

i dont drink da koolaid, its bad for the teeth.

you got somthing aginst reggae ?
 
bob said:
wwwwhhhhaaaat.... the left has been saing we lost dame near from the getgo
Click to expand...


Please address the issue that was raised, instead of inventing a completely unrelated strawman.

This was the first sentence of the post:

"Politicians are afraid to say it. Media pundits won't dare touch it.

To be clear, I could have, and should have, said "mainstream" media pundits. I clearly did NOT refer to grass roots democrats, or small time bloggers and writers.


Can you name more than a small handful of politicians, or major media pundit who have said the Iraq War is lost for America?
 
Nah...

bob said:
what do you mean by get real ? it was a simple question.

i dont drink da koolaid, its bad for the teeth.

you got somthing aginst reggae ?
Click to expand...



I actually like reggae..I am old school..albeit I can't swing the hips as I did back in the day...al is good...'Surfs Up' or down depending on circumstances...

lol..Carry on and 'Rock Out'...!
 
Cypress said:
Please address the issue that was raised, instead of inventing a completely unrelated strawman.

This was the first sentence of the post:

"Politicians are afraid to say it. Media pundits won't dare touch it.

To be clear, I could have, and should have, said "mainstream" media pundits. I clearly did NOT refer to grass roots democrats, or small time bloggers and writers.


Can you name more than a small handful of politicians, or major media pundit who have said the Iraq War is lost for America?
Click to expand...


will i could if i relly wanted to argue the point, but quite frankly i am sick of hearing it, so say what ever you will, you know what i am talking about.


dems, grassroots dems, mainstreem.. they all end up on the same page no matter what you call em
 
Battleborne said:
I actually like reggae..I am old school..albeit I can't swing the hips as I did back in the day...al is good...'Surfs Up' or down depending on circumstances...

lol..Carry on and 'Rock Out'...!
Click to expand...

ahh you must e somewhat of a fan of te duo tones, dick dale and thoese types... good stuff
 
bob said:
will i could if i relly wanted to argue the point, but quite frankly i am sick of hearing it, so say what ever you will, you know what i am talking about.


dems, grassroots dems, mainstreem.. they all end up on the same page no matter what you call em
Click to expand...

and actuly, this war isnt anything more then a political opertunity for most politicians on both sides. quite sad
 
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