The Defensive Power of the Stateless Nation

Timshel

New member
The cries for a legitimate and functioning government in Iraq are for one reason. That reason is, that without one the US can not hope to succeed as conqueror and occupier. Bush, being an imperialist and an idiot, crushed the state there which offered him his only real hope of success.

A look at history will show that successful occupation requires that the conquered state be left intact, subjugated to the will of the conqueror and able to suppress the "conquered" peoples. The reason for this is that people generally are under the delusion that their state is legitimate and so they will submit willingly. But a foreign invading state? The primary reason Iraq has proven such a problem is because we destroyed the Iraqi state.

Further, the worst losses to the Iraqi people were suffered while their state apparatus was intact. This is due to the irrational idea that a people are one with their state. Therefore, there was less moral outrage at the killing of civilians before Saddam was considered ousted. The Iraqi people were then merely an extension of Saddam. Now that the state is gone, though, that connection and rationalization can no longer be made.

Rather than serving as protector, the Iraqi government endangered the people of Iraq and once that government was scattered the defenses of the Iraqi people improved.

It should serve as answer to those that demand that at the very least, a large state run military is necessary to protect from foreign invasion.
 
Libertarians are on crack. I swear. Either that or they're robots that never stop propagating their ideology. Where the fuck do you get the energy to write 8-10 of these things a day anyway?
 
Yeah, the usual potshots from the mindless idiot. I am sure usc will have some more worthless comments to add.

I offered many points for you to counter. Can you do it?

I am not sure what you mean. This is the only one I have written spontaneously today (other posts have been responses or posting of articles), and it was easy. I am listening to Rothbard's "For a New Liberty: The Libertarian Manifesto" and I am at the chapter on national defense. I merely thought about his arguments and applied them to Iraq.
 
More points...

The argument from even Democratic Party warmongers seems to be that we cannot leave Iraq until a functioning government is in place. This is horseshit. The reason for the desperate demand for a functioning government is so we don't ever have to leave.

The argument is that Iran may move in without an adequate government to offer defense. What a joke. If we can't conquer these people under what cirsumstances could Iran? Well, if Iraq has a functioning government and Iran is wise enough not to destroy it, they may succeed.
 
I wear myself out reading your daily dissertations. You can't expect everyone to read every word you write on this board. You've got to hold the record for number of words puked out of your keyboard since Ron Paul announced his candidacy.
 
So what you are sayin is since a democratic govt. isn't taking root in Iraq the way Bushs neocons thought it would, we should install an iron fisted strongman, a military man who will force the fragmented country to remain intact and unify the different factions now fighting for power? Where's Sadam when you need him... oh yea, never mind.

If Iran were to attack, wouldn't the Shiites (about 1/3 of the population I think) back them?

What a quagmire, Bush's Folly.
 
So what you are sayin is since a democratic govt. isn't taking root in Iraq the way Bushs neocons thought it would, we should install an iron fisted strongman, a military man who will force the fragmented country to remain intact and unify the different factions now fighting for power? Where's Sadam when you need him... oh yea, never mind.

If Iran were to attack, wouldn't the Shiites (about 1/3 of the population I think) back them?

What a quagmire, Bush's Folly.

The Shiites are 60% of the population. The Sunni are only 17%. When we leave Iraq will effectively become part of Iran. We've sure got ourselves into a pickle!
 
Yeah, the usual potshots from the mindless idiot. I am sure usc will have some more worthless comments to add.

I offered many points for you to counter. Can you do it?

I am not sure what you mean. This is the only one I have written spontaneously today (other posts have been responses or posting of articles), and it was easy. I am listening to Rothbard's "For a New Liberty: The Libertarian Manifesto" and I am at the chapter on national defense. I merely thought about his arguments and applied them to Iraq.

Cabbage, slipshot many herring!
 
So what you are sayin is since a democratic govt. isn't taking root in Iraq the way Bushs neocons thought it would, we should install an iron fisted strongman, a military man who will force the fragmented country to remain intact and unify the different factions now fighting for power? Where's Sadam when you need him... oh yea, never mind..

Huh? Strawman.

If Iran were to attack, wouldn't the Shiites (about 1/3 of the population I think) back them?

What a quagmire, Bush's Folly.

I am not sure about that. Hostilities between Iraq and Iran go back thousands of years. I would guess, that they would be less hostile to Iran than to the US, though.
 
The enemy of my enemy is my friend. well at least till the first enemy is taken care of. Or so some mindsets go....
 
More points...

The argument from even Democratic Party warmongers seems to be that we cannot leave Iraq until a functioning government is in place. This is horseshit. The reason for the desperate demand for a functioning government is so we don't ever have to leave.

The argument is that Iran may move in without an adequate government to offer defense. What a joke. If we can't conquer these people under what cirsumstances could Iran? Well, if Iraq has a functioning government and Iran is wise enough not to destroy it, they may succeed.

They won't arrest their soldiers for violent acts. And they won't won't listen when some politician says "you can't go into sadr city, or sunniville, " or whatever.
 
The cries for a legitimate and functioning government in Iraq are for one reason. That reason is, that without one the US can not hope to succeed as conqueror and occupier. Bush, being an imperialist and an idiot, crushed the state there which offered him his only real hope of success.

A look at history will show that successful occupation requires that the conquered state be left intact, subjugated to the will of the conqueror and able to suppress the "conquered" peoples. The reason for this is that people generally are under the delusion that their state is legitimate and so they will submit willingly. But a foreign invading state? The primary reason Iraq has proven such a problem is because we destroyed the Iraqi state.

Further, the worst losses to the Iraqi people were suffered while their state apparatus was intact. This is due to the irrational idea that a people are one with their state. Therefore, there was less moral outrage at the killing of civilians before Saddam was considered ousted. The Iraqi people were then merely an extension of Saddam. Now that the state is gone, though, that connection and rationalization can no longer be made.

Rather than serving as protector, the Iraqi government endangered the people of Iraq and once that government was scattered the defenses of the Iraqi people improved.

It should serve as answer to those that demand that at the very least, a large state run military is necessary to protect from foreign invasion.

I disagree with this, Bush and most politicians fucked up on Iraq over WMD and Al-Qaida ties but they are not imperialists. Were that true they would not be getting out of Saudi Arabia or pulling troops from Germany.

The second part with the Iraqi people's deaths associated with Saddam makes sense though. People do define themselves through their national identity and are usually thought of as such.
 
C'mon Scott..........

The Shiites are 60% of the population. The Sunni are only 17%. When we leave Iraq will effectively become part of Iran. We've sure got ourselves into a pickle!


Not really...the shits(pun) will get their just reward from Israel...Kosher at that! Iran is going down by Jan 2008...even the old AF dude like you can see the writing on the wall!:cof1:
 
Not really...the shits(pun) will get their just reward from Israel...Kosher at that! Iran is going down by Jan 2008...even the old AF dude like you can see the writing on the wall!:cof1:
Yeah right seems like I have heard this story before someplace about another country or two in the area....
 
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