The existence of Israel is proof there is no God

moon2012 said:
Let me attempt to answer my own question.
OK, so six million Jews were ' liquidated ' by the Nazis of the Third Reich in the 1940s. That disgusting crime against all humanity will never be forgotten. However, the total of victims of that madness is eighteen million. A further twelve million Roma and other minorities were slaughtered. The survivors call this ' The Devouring ', not the ' Holocaust. Who has ever even heard of the Devouring ? Precious few, I dare say, yet it represents twice as many victims as the Holocaust.
Why then is ' our ' sympathy directed only at the Jewish survivors of WW2 - so much so that 'we ' are willing to sit back and applaud while the descendants of the Holocaust survivors act like Nazis against the innocent people whose land was divided and given to Europeans by the victors of WW2 ?
Was it that the Zionists' propaganda machinery was employed to good effect and that Zionists were in positions which enabled them to gain the ears and twist the arms of the leaders of these victors ? It certainly seems that way. Yet it is a fact that the early recorded writings and speeches of the Zionist leadership clearly outline their plans for the brutal ethnic cleansing of Palestinians. Now, this may have been ' under the radar ' of the war-torn Western people of the 1940s - but that's not the case today . The Internet has exposed neoZionism for what it is- a secular doctrine of ethnic cleansing which is preying upon an indigenous people and there is NOTHING- as the OP suggests- remotely ' godly ' about that. ' We' are propaganda victims- and it's high time that we took a realistic moral stand.
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In support of post #220;

Genocide Scholar Blasts Israel's 'Racist' Teaching of the Holocaust
Prof. Yair Auron's thesis is clear: Israel prefers to avoid, repress and minimize the suffering of other peoples in the Holocaust and other circumstances, to perpetuate victimization and isolationism.

http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.699749
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So let's see all you Israel buffs salute the other twelve million victims whose descendants are NOT ethnic cleansing land thieves and international scoundrels.
 
moon2012 said:
In support of post #220;



So let's see all you Israel buffs salute the other twelve million victims whose descendants are NOT ethnic cleansing land thieves and international scoundrels.
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What ? Not a single word of remembrance for the other twelve million victims of Hitler's ' final solution ' ? Why would that be, do you think ? Could we be witnessing the harmful effects of allowing our media to be controlled by vested interests ?
 
There's nothing like a bit of spontaneous compassion for ones fellow man.

Gypsies have contributed hugely to all our cultures, of course, so there really should be some form of commemoration of ' The Devouring '. Nazi criminality goes way beyond the Jewish torment- yet the Holocaust is all we ever hear about. Further, Gypsies are still being persecuted today to a far greater extent than Jews are suffering real and contrived forms of ' antisemitism ' . It's time that the pendulum was in swing again, surely.
 
moon2012 said:
There's nothing like a bit of spontaneous compassion for ones fellow man.

Gypsies have contributed hugely to all our cultures, of course, so there really should be some form of commemoration of ' The Devouring '. Nazi criminality goes way beyond the Jewish torment- yet the Holocaust is all we ever hear about. Further, Gypsies are still being persecuted today to a far greater extent than Jews are suffering real and contrived forms of ' antisemitism ' . It's time that the pendulum was in swing again, surely.
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I was told once that there's a sizable Gypsy population in Eastern WA. We do have a German town called Leavenworth in Central WA, so that's interesting...


EDIT: I found a NYT article from 1992 about how actions taken by Spokane, WA police in a 1986 incident had gotten the city sued by a Gypsy family. It explains that the Pacific NW is home to a sizable chunk of the US Gypsy population.

http://www.nytimes.com/1992/04/14/us/police-raid-and-suit-open-window-into-gypsy-life.html
 
Demographics can be revealing, even if based partly upon hearsay.

A quick search shows a lot of Gypsy activity in Leavenworth- including Gypsy music, cafes and horse fairs. Never been there. Sounds interesting.
 
Almost Half of Israeli Jews Back Transfer or Expulsion of Arabs

About half of Israel’s Jews support the transfer of Arabs to other countries, according to a survey by the American Pew Research Center published Tuesday.

http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.707589
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It doesn't come across as any sort of a ' godly ' country, does it.

Quid pro quo . Now let's see a survey amongst Israel's Arabs to determine their support for the expulsion and transfer of Jews to other countries.
 
No such survey ? Fancy that.

Now then- I challenge anybody to read the following and not conclude that Israel's chief rabbi is barking mad;

Chief Rabbi Urges Israeli Soldiers to Kill Palestinian Assailants, Not Worry About Court or Chief of Staff


Rabbi Yosef made his statement during a discussion of the question as to whether it is permitted to kill Amalekites, a biblical enemy of the Hebrews, on Shabbat. “On Shabbat you can’t kill Amalek,” he said. “If some terrorist comes to me now, and I know he’s a terrorist, and we caught him. He doesn’t have a knife in his hand, he doesn’t have anything. And I know, Elijah the Prophet will come to me and tell me that he’s from Amalek. Is it permitted to kill him on Shabbat? No. But Elijah the Prophet says that it’s Amalek. Put him in prison, after Shabbat say a blessing and kill him.”
Yosef also said that it’s impossible today to know with certainty that a terrorist belongs to the seed of Amalek, and therefore he shouldn’t be executed that way: “Now, we don’t know if he’s a seed of Amalek until the righteous Messiah comes. Put him in prison, let him get life imprisonment, until the righteous Messiah comes and tells *us if he’s the seed of Amalek - and then we can kill them.”


http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.708648
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Ask yourself- who was responsible for allowing these people to evict three-quarters of a million indigenous Palestinians and set up camp ? The conclusion of the OP might be a tad theatrical but no sane person could fail to acknowledge that Israel's top religious honchos are loonies.
And what if Palestinians issued an edict that all armed Zionists in Palestine should be killed ? You know what ? We'd be siding with the loonies.
 
More Bigotry...from those who state they are seeking "social justice"? Really?

Why Blame "God" for the free will choices of man? The revelations from God make it clear....Man is made in the image of God (in a spiritual manner, as God is a Spirit) via the Specific Reason that only man out of all God's creation has the innate ability to reason his/her own mortality and make judgement's that are either Good or Evil in nature.

God made man in His own imagine and gave mankind dominion over the earth and all the creatures that dwell on it, on it or under it, Birds, Fish, Animals, over the land itself....man was ordered to reproduce until such time as he had subdued it. (Genesis 1:27-28). Man was separated from God because of the free will choices he made, and brought physical death to mankind...but the power of God still rests within man, THE POWER TO JUDGE and MAKE DECISIONS concerning and effecting not only himself but others, either Good or Evil.

"Then the Lord God said, "Behold the man has become like one of us, to know good and evil......" Genesis 3:22-24.

Thus....man is to blame for his/her own choices, NOT GOD. And FYI...it was the United Nations that created the modern nation calling itself Israel (in name only)...NOT GOD. Biblical Israel was destroyed "never to be made whole again." As God promised to destroy Israel or allow it to be destroyed if it ever disobeyed the righteousness of God's commandments (Lev. 26:27-39), they would be driven from the land of promise (Deut. 4:25-28).

THEY WOULD CEASE TO BE A NATION (Deut. 8:19-20)

Some claim that God promised the land to Israel for ever and are still awaiting for God to Keep His Promise. Never mind the fact that the Scriptures declare the truth, God Fulfilled ALL THE LAND PROMISES in their entirety, "So the Lord gave to Israel all the land which He had sworn to give to their fathers, and they took possession of it and dwelt in it. The Lord gave them rest all, around, according to all that He had sworn to their fathers.......NOT A WORD FAILED ANY GOOD THING WHICH THE LORD HAD SPOKEN TO THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL. ALL CAME TO PASS." -- Joshua 21:43-45.

Indeed God promised the land with a covenant...but, that promise had exceptions, the land would be Israel's forever "IF" Israel remained loyal to God. God had longsuffering and mercy. He allowed some to return to the land...another chance, but Israel would never be whole again, like a broken potters jar, there would always be pieces missing. (Jer. 19:7-13). It was in such a fractured nature that the Christ was born into this world....and when Israel rejected the promised Messiah.....they were totally destroyed in the 1st century. It was promised "forever" as long Israel obeyed God "....be careful to seek out all the commandments of the Lord your God...that you may possess the GOOD LAND....and leave it as an inheritance to your children." -- 1 Chron. 28:8

Israel did not and God kept His promise, "....but if you Forsake Him....He will cast you out forever." -- 1 Chron. 28:9

Jerusalem fell to the Roman Empire in 70AD. And was gone for over 2000 years. Until the United Nations allowed the creation of another nation calling itself ISRAEL...but living by none of the guidelines established by God and given to Moses. Today's Israel is governed by Man Made Laws. Biblical Israel was governed by a King appointed by God. Modern Israel is ruled by a type of European government. Biblical Israel had a royal Priesthood...Modern Israel does not. Modern Israel has no Tribal IDs as did Biblical Israel.

Do I support modern Israel? Of course...but not because of some mistranslated type of reasoning declaring they are God's Chosen People. I support them because they are a US ALLY surrounded in a sea of 14th century ignorance and despotism.
 
The neoZionists have plenty of '14th century ignorance and despotism' of their own;

Jewish Activists Arrested Trying to Enter Temple Mount for Banned Passover Sacrifice

Kach activist Noam Federman, who tries to perform sacrifice on the Temple Mount every year, among the arrested.

http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.716008
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These throwbacks were trying to sacrifice baby goats.

' Kach ' is, of course, a neoZionist terrorist organization which, among many other neoZionist terrorist groups, is proscribed by the US State Department;

From Presidential Executive Order 13224: "Blocking Property and Prohibiting Transactions With Persons Who Commit, Threaten to Commit, Or Support Terrorism." (Sept. 2001)

Kach; Kahane; Kahane Chai; Kahane Lives
American Friends Of The United Yeshiva
American Friends Of Yeshivat Rav Meir
Committee For The Safety Of The Roads
Dikuy Bogdim
Dov
Forefront Of The Idea
Friends Of The Jewish Idea Yeshiva
Jewish Idea Yeshiva
Jewish Legion
Judea Police
Judean Congress
Kahane Tzadak
Kfar Tapuah Fund
Koach
Meir's Youth
New Kach Movement (New York chapter)
No'ar Meir
Repression Of Traitors
State Of Judea
Sword Of David
The Committee Against Racism And Discrimination (CARD)
The Hatikva Jewish Identity Center
The International Kahane Movement
The Jewish Idea Yeshiva
The Judean Legion
The Judean Voice; The Voice of Judea
The Qomemiyut Movement
The Rabbi Meir David Kahane Memorial Fund
The Way Of The Torah
The Yeshiva Of The Jewish Idea
Yeshivat Harav Meir
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Ralph said:
Do I support modern Israel? Of course...but not because of some mistranslated type of reasoning declaring they are God's Chosen People. I support them because they are a US ALLY surrounded in a sea of 14th century ignorance and despotism.
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In the light of the evidence provided you support neoZionism because you're conditioned to support neoZionism.
In the light of the evidence of neoZionist theft, brutality, ethnic cleansing and murder neoZionism has no respectability and cannot qualify for rational support- so conditioning it must be.
 
Yang Wenli said:
How could a just God allow such an injustice to occur? Israel is proof of the inherent evil and barbarism of man, that people with power will take whatever they want from whomever they want, that there is no such thing as justice, that, as Thucydides put it 2000 years ago, "Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they will and the weak suffer what they must."
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By that reasoning, America is proof there is no God.
 
Northwestman said:
By that reasoning, America is proof there is no God.
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I repeat post #6

The nearest that we've come to divine justice is international law as described by the United Nations. Israel is most certainly a pariah under international law so, in those terms, you make a good point. Why- every believer in law should be asking- do we continually suffer the transgressions of America's scurrilous client state ?
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In the sense of there being no 'divine justice ' manifested through the application of international law then yes, you're correct in pointing out America's part in obstructing justice when it comes to its client state. So you could say that Israel's and the USA's obstruction of international law proves that democracy cannot provide justice and so both are equally guilty of contributing to a godless world order.
It's time for change, isn't it.
 
The Blood of Angry Men said:
How could a just God allow such an injustice to occur? Israel is proof of the inherent evil and barbarism of man, that people with power will take whatever they want from whomever they want, that there is no such thing as justice, that, as Thucydides put it 2000 years ago, "Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they will and the weak suffer what they must."
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If the mere existence of Israel is your proof there is no God, you will have to do better than that if you expect to convince any reasonable person. Particularly since the entire earth is over-run by rebellious humans committing wrongdoing against one another.

And since you claim there is no God, suppose you explain to the rest of us why our universe is fine-tuned for life. Are you suggesting that that happened by itself?


Alter2Ego


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"That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18
 
Alter2Ego said:
If the mere existence of Israel is your proof there is no God, you will have to do better than that if you expect to convince any reasonable person. Particularly since the entire earth is over-run by rebellious humans committing wrongdoing against one another.

And since you claim there is no God, suppose you explain to the rest of us why our universe is fine-tuned for life. Are you suggesting that that happened by itself?


Alter2Ego


________________
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Yes. And you are insane
 
'Israel' is a profoundly evil state, but there have been lots of them over history, many of them worshipping evil gods. It seems to me that the God question and the question of why racist scumbags manage to gain power are very different, and the second is at least answerable
 
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