The Garden of Eden as recast Mesopotamian Myth

PostmodernProphet said:
just say some atheists and get it over with......and please quote this made up "Mesopotamian myth" (unless of course, like all the others you have mentioned, it simply doesn't exist)......
Click to expand...

Oh course it does and that has been recorded in thousands of Clay tablets in cuneiform.. in several locations. Including Dilmun and Ras Shamra.

Have you ever heard of King Hammurabi of Babylon? 1795 to 1750 B.C

The stories in Genesis came from Babylon long before there were any Jews.
 
PostmodernProphet said:
you do not understand the concept of the sin of our origin......there is no blame of Eve......God criticized Adam for that foolishness on the day it happened.......we are to blame because we are what we are......human beings.....
Click to expand...

It wasn't doctrine until 300 AD. Human beings are not born sinful.
 
kudzu said:
Oh course it does and that has been recorded in thousands of Clay tablets in cuneiform.. in several locations. Including Dilmun and Ras Shamra.

Have you ever heard of King Hammurabi of Babylon? 1795 to 1750 B.C

The stories in Genesis came from Babylon long before there were any Jews.
Click to expand...

Duh alert,not till Noah,did the middle east come into play!Noah sailed from the America's!
 
kudzu said:
Jews and Muslims don't blame Eve for the Fall, and neither believes in original sin (inherited sin)... That's strictly Christian.
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Even so, all three are patriarchal religions which put Woman under the heel of Man, whether by scripture or in practice.
 
kudzu said:
Oh course it does and that has been recorded in thousands of Clay tablets in cuneiform.. in several locations. Including Dilmun and Ras Shamra.

Have you ever heard of King Hammurabi of Babylon? 1795 to 1750 B.C

The stories in Genesis came from Babylon long before there were any Jews.
Click to expand...

link the text copied by Genesis or simply shut the fuck up......its that simple.....every time you've pulled this shit I have proven you a liar.....
 
kudzu said:
The whole story about Marduk.. LOL.. You haven't proven anything ever. You're too lazy and uneducated.
Click to expand...

link some text, idiot.......you have absolutely nothing but still keep posing as someone who knows something.......back it up or back up......
 
kudzu said:
The whole story about Marduk..
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Enki and his siblings begin to despair when the young god Marduk steps forward and says he will lead them to victory if they will first proclaim him their king. Once this is accomplished, Marduk defeats Quingu in single combat and then kills Tiamat by shooting her with an arrow which splits her in two; from her eyes flow the Tigris and Euphrates rivers and, from her corpse, Marduk forms the heavens and completes the creation begun by Enki of the earth (in some myths Enki is not mentioned and Marduk is the sole creator of the world). In consultation with Enki, Marduk then created human beings from the remains of the defeated gods who had encouraged Tiamat to wage war on her children. The defeated Quingu is executed, and his remains used to create the first man, Lullu.
Click to expand...
https://www.ancient.eu/Marduk/
omigorsh, its Genesis 1 all over!.......not......I did find a parallel......both passages used the word "earth"........is that your claim of scholarship?.......
 
Ralph said:
Troll much MUSLIM? :bigthink: The only moderate Muslim is one that has his weapons removed. Reality: Its a most difficult thing to establish facts in evidence.....from a period of time that predates history. All the creation stories are a matter of oral history. That fact that all the nations of the world actually promote pre history creation stories reveals only one truth. Creation itself is a faith held by all the nations on earth. Just like there is a flood oral history from all the nations....there is a garden oral history among all the nations. Myths and Legends are developed from some common source.

If you want to know the truth....simply commit yourself to looking for the ONE RELIGION that has never been debunked by Science or History Actual. There is only one throughout the entire world.
Click to expand...

. River Gihon could not possibly flow from Mesopotamia and encompass Ethiopia (Gen 2:13)
B. The name Babel does not come from the Hebrew word 'balbal' or 'confuse' but from the babylonian 'babili' or 'gate of God' which is a translation of the original Sumerian name Ka-dimirra. (Gen 11:9)
C. Ur was not a Chaldean city until 1000 years after Abraham (Gen 11:28, 15:7)
D. Abraham pursued enemies to 'Dan' (Gen 14:14). That name was not used geographically until after the conquest (Judge 18:29)
E. Gen 36:31, telling of Jacob and Esau, lists kings of Edom "before there reigned any king over the children of Israel." This must have been written hundreds of years later, after Israel had kings.
F. Joseph tells Pharaoh he comes from the "land of the Hebrews" (Gen 40:15). There was no such land until after the conquest under Joshua.
G. The Egyptian princess names the baby she finds "Moses" because she "drew him out" of the water (Heb meshethi). Why would she make a pun in Hebrew (Ex 2:10)?
H. No Egyptian record exists mentioning Moses or his devastation of Egypt.
I. Moses refers to "Palestine" (Ex 15:14). No such name was in use then.
J. Law of Moses is the "statutes of God and his laws" (Ex 18:26), but it closely mirrors the Code of Hammurabi, which was penned 1800 BC, hundreds of years before Moses.
K. Priests are mentioned at Ex 19:22-24, but they are not provided for until Ex 28:1.
L. Moses mentions Rabbath, where Og's bedstead is located (Deut3:11). Moses could not have any knowledge of Rabbath,which was not captured by the Hebrews until David's time,500 years later (2 Sam 12:26).
M. Jericho and Ai (Josh 8) were both ancient ruins at the time of the conquest of Canaan, according to archaeologists. Jericho's walls were destroyed centuries before Joshua.
N. Kings are referred to at Deut 17:17-19, before Israel had kings.
O. The Wilderness is viewed as history at Num 15:32, showing that Numbers was written later.
P. The Sabbath law was unknown when the man gathered sticks at Num 15:32-34.
Q. Book of Joshua refers to Book of Jasher in the past, mentioned at 2 Sam 1:18, therefore Joshua must be post-David.
R. Captivity is mentioned at Judg 18:30, making it post-Exile.
S. David took Goliath's head to Jerusalem (1 Sam 17:54). But Jerusalem was not captured until 7 years after David became king (2 Sam 5).
T. David paid 600 shekels of gold for the threshing floor (1 Chron21:22-25). But shekels of gold were not yet used in business transactions (this is the only use of the term in the OT).
U. Psalm 18:6 mentions the temple, thus cannot be by David.
V. Defeat of Sennacherib did not happen at Jerusalem, but at Pelusium, near Egypt, and Jews were not involved, contrary to 2 Kings 19.
W. Ninevah was so large it took three days to cross, i.e. about 60 miles (Jonah 3:3-4). Yet it had only 120,000 inhabitants, making a population density of of about 42 people per square
mile for a city.
X. Daniel's account of Nebuchadnezzar and Belshazzar is historically inaccurate; Nebuchadnezzar was never mad. Belshazzar, whom he says was king, was never king, but only regent. Belshazzar was not the son of Nebuchadnezzar, but of Nabo-nidus. Babylon was not conquered by Darius the Mede, but by Cyrus the Great, in 539 BC (Dan 5:31). Darius the Mede is unknown to history.
Y. Chronology of the empires of the Medes and Persians is historically incorrect in Isa 13:17, 21:2, Jer 51:11, 28
Z. Esther (and all the characters in the Book of Esther except Ahasuerus [= Xerxes]) is unknown to history, even though itclaims that its events are "written in the chronicles of the kings of Media and Persia" (Est 10:2). The Book of Esther is not quoted by any pre-Christian writer, nor mentioned in
NT, nor quoted by early Christian fathers.

https://m.news24.com/MyNews24/The-P...fallacies-scientific-issues-and-more-20120517

These are just a few historical errors in the Bible.
 
Phantasmal said:
. River Gihon could not possibly flow from Mesopotamia and encompass Ethiopia (Gen 2:13)
B. The name Babel does not come from the Hebrew word 'balbal' or 'confuse' but from the babylonian 'babili' or 'gate of God' which is a translation of the original Sumerian name Ka-dimirra. (Gen 11:9)
C. Ur was not a Chaldean city until 1000 years after Abraham (Gen 11:28, 15:7)
D. Abraham pursued enemies to 'Dan' (Gen 14:14). That name was not used geographically until after the conquest (Judge 18:29)
E. Gen 36:31, telling of Jacob and Esau, lists kings of Edom "before there reigned any king over the children of Israel." This must have been written hundreds of years later, after Israel had kings.
F. Joseph tells Pharaoh he comes from the "land of the Hebrews" (Gen 40:15). There was no such land until after the conquest under Joshua.
G. The Egyptian princess names the baby she finds "Moses" because she "drew him out" of the water (Heb meshethi). Why would she make a pun in Hebrew (Ex 2:10)?
H. No Egyptian record exists mentioning Moses or his devastation of Egypt.
I. Moses refers to "Palestine" (Ex 15:14). No such name was in use then.
J. Law of Moses is the "statutes of God and his laws" (Ex 18:26), but it closely mirrors the Code of Hammurabi, which was penned 1800 BC, hundreds of years before Moses.
K. Priests are mentioned at Ex 19:22-24, but they are not provided for until Ex 28:1.
L. Moses mentions Rabbath, where Og's bedstead is located (Deut3:11). Moses could not have any knowledge of Rabbath,which was not captured by the Hebrews until David's time,500 years later (2 Sam 12:26).
M. Jericho and Ai (Josh 8) were both ancient ruins at the time of the conquest of Canaan, according to archaeologists. Jericho's walls were destroyed centuries before Joshua.
N. Kings are referred to at Deut 17:17-19, before Israel had kings.
O. The Wilderness is viewed as history at Num 15:32, showing that Numbers was written later.
P. The Sabbath law was unknown when the man gathered sticks at Num 15:32-34.
Q. Book of Joshua refers to Book of Jasher in the past, mentioned at 2 Sam 1:18, therefore Joshua must be post-David.
R. Captivity is mentioned at Judg 18:30, making it post-Exile.
S. David took Goliath's head to Jerusalem (1 Sam 17:54). But Jerusalem was not captured until 7 years after David became king (2 Sam 5).
T. David paid 600 shekels of gold for the threshing floor (1 Chron21:22-25). But shekels of gold were not yet used in business transactions (this is the only use of the term in the OT).
U. Psalm 18:6 mentions the temple, thus cannot be by David.
V. Defeat of Sennacherib did not happen at Jerusalem, but at Pelusium, near Egypt, and Jews were not involved, contrary to 2 Kings 19.
W. Ninevah was so large it took three days to cross, i.e. about 60 miles (Jonah 3:3-4). Yet it had only 120,000 inhabitants, making a population density of of about 42 people per square
mile for a city.
X. Daniel's account of Nebuchadnezzar and Belshazzar is historically inaccurate; Nebuchadnezzar was never mad. Belshazzar, whom he says was king, was never king, but only regent. Belshazzar was not the son of Nebuchadnezzar, but of Nabo-nidus. Babylon was not conquered by Darius the Mede, but by Cyrus the Great, in 539 BC (Dan 5:31). Darius the Mede is unknown to history.
Y. Chronology of the empires of the Medes and Persians is historically incorrect in Isa 13:17, 21:2, Jer 51:11, 28
Z. Esther (and all the characters in the Book of Esther except Ahasuerus [= Xerxes]) is unknown to history, even though itclaims that its events are "written in the chronicles of the kings of Media and Persia" (Est 10:2). The Book of Esther is not quoted by any pre-Christian writer, nor mentioned in
NT, nor quoted by early Christian fathers.

https://m.news24.com/MyNews24/The-P...fallacies-scientific-issues-and-more-20120517

These are just a few historical errors in the Bible.
Click to expand...

Its crazy for people to kill each other when their sacred texts contain so many errors and contradictions.
 
Phantasmal said:
. River Gihon could not possibly flow from Mesopotamia and encompass Ethiopia (Gen 2:13)
B. The name Babel does not come from the Hebrew word 'balbal' or 'confuse' but from the babylonian 'babili' or 'gate of God' which is a translation of the original Sumerian name Ka-dimirra. (Gen 11:9)
C. Ur was not a Chaldean city until 1000 years after Abraham (Gen 11:28, 15:7)
D. Abraham pursued enemies to 'Dan' (Gen 14:14). That name was not used geographically until after the conquest (Judge 18:29)
E. Gen 36:31, telling of Jacob and Esau, lists kings of Edom "before there reigned any king over the children of Israel." This must have been written hundreds of years later, after Israel had kings.
F. Joseph tells Pharaoh he comes from the "land of the Hebrews" (Gen 40:15). There was no such land until after the conquest under Joshua.
G. The Egyptian princess names the baby she finds "Moses" because she "drew him out" of the water (Heb meshethi). Why would she make a pun in Hebrew (Ex 2:10)?
H. No Egyptian record exists mentioning Moses or his devastation of Egypt.
I. Moses refers to "Palestine" (Ex 15:14). No such name was in use then.
J. Law of Moses is the "statutes of God and his laws" (Ex 18:26), but it closely mirrors the Code of Hammurabi, which was penned 1800 BC, hundreds of years before Moses.
K. Priests are mentioned at Ex 19:22-24, but they are not provided for until Ex 28:1.
L. Moses mentions Rabbath, where Og's bedstead is located (Deut3:11). Moses could not have any knowledge of Rabbath,which was not captured by the Hebrews until David's time,500 years later (2 Sam 12:26).
M. Jericho and Ai (Josh 8) were both ancient ruins at the time of the conquest of Canaan, according to archaeologists. Jericho's walls were destroyed centuries before Joshua.
N. Kings are referred to at Deut 17:17-19, before Israel had kings.
O. The Wilderness is viewed as history at Num 15:32, showing that Numbers was written later.
P. The Sabbath law was unknown when the man gathered sticks at Num 15:32-34.
Q. Book of Joshua refers to Book of Jasher in the past, mentioned at 2 Sam 1:18, therefore Joshua must be post-David.
R. Captivity is mentioned at Judg 18:30, making it post-Exile.
S. David took Goliath's head to Jerusalem (1 Sam 17:54). But Jerusalem was not captured until 7 years after David became king (2 Sam 5).
T. David paid 600 shekels of gold for the threshing floor (1 Chron21:22-25). But shekels of gold were not yet used in business transactions (this is the only use of the term in the OT).
U. Psalm 18:6 mentions the temple, thus cannot be by David.
V. Defeat of Sennacherib did not happen at Jerusalem, but at Pelusium, near Egypt, and Jews were not involved, contrary to 2 Kings 19.
W. Ninevah was so large it took three days to cross, i.e. about 60 miles (Jonah 3:3-4). Yet it had only 120,000 inhabitants, making a population density of of about 42 people per square
mile for a city.
X. Daniel's account of Nebuchadnezzar and Belshazzar is historically inaccurate; Nebuchadnezzar was never mad. Belshazzar, whom he says was king, was never king, but only regent. Belshazzar was not the son of Nebuchadnezzar, but of Nabo-nidus. Babylon was not conquered by Darius the Mede, but by Cyrus the Great, in 539 BC (Dan 5:31). Darius the Mede is unknown to history.
Y. Chronology of the empires of the Medes and Persians is historically incorrect in Isa 13:17, 21:2, Jer 51:11, 28
Z. Esther (and all the characters in the Book of Esther except Ahasuerus [= Xerxes]) is unknown to history, even though itclaims that its events are "written in the chronicles of the kings of Media and Persia" (Est 10:2). The Book of Esther is not quoted by any pre-Christian writer, nor mentioned in
NT, nor quoted by early Christian fathers.

https://m.news24.com/MyNews24/The-P...fallacies-scientific-issues-and-more-20120517

These are just a few historical errors in the Bible.
Click to expand...

can you document that any one of them is an historical error or are you just taking this guy's word for it....(I'm sure you noticed he provided no authority for any of his claims).......do you even know who Daniel Henson is?.......
 
PostmodernProphet said:
no......you have posted no texts.....you never do......do you know why?.......its because you make them all up........and you're stupid enough to keep doing it.....I would think you would be embarrassed by now........
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Enuma Elish - The Babylonian Epic of Creation - Full Text ...
https://www.ancient.eu/article/225

1 When the heavens above did not exist, 2 And earth beneath had not come into being — 3 There …
1 Tia-mat gathered together her creation. 2 And organised battle against the gods, her offspring. 3 …
1 Anšar opened his mouth. 2 And addressed Kaka, his vizier, 3 "Vizier Kaka, who gratifies my …
1 They set a lordly dais for him. 2 And he took his seat before his fathers to receive kingship. 3 …
See all full list on ancient.eu
The Enuma Elish: The Babylonian Creation Myth - CRI/Voice
www.crivoice.org › Bible Topics › History and Culture

The Enuma Elish is a Babylonian or Mesopotamian myth of creation recounting the struggle between cosmic order and chaos. It is basically a myth of the cycle of seasons. It is named after its opening words and was recited on the fourth day of the ancient Babylonian New Year's festival. The basic story exists in various forms in the area.
 
Genesis 1 and a Babylonian Creation Story

In the middle of the nineteenth century, archaeologists were digging in the library of King Ashurbanipal (668-627 B.C.) in the ancient city of Nineveh. They discovered thousands of clay tablets written in a language that came to be known as Akkadian (a distant and much older cousin to Hebrew).

These tablets contained things like laws, administrative matters, and literature. It was like unearthing a time capsule to see what life was like in the ancient Near East 3,000 to 4,000 years ago.

But it was the religious texts found there that got the most attention. One of those texts bore striking similarities to Genesis 1.

How people viewed Genesis would never be the same again.

Found among the ruins was a Babylonian creation story referred to today as Enuma Elish. It is a story about a highly dysfunctional divine family engaged in a major power struggle at the dawn of time. The heart of the story is where the god Marduk kills his nemesis Tiamat and then fillets her body in two, making the sky out of one half and the earth out of the other. Thus, Marduk claims the throne as the high god in the pantheon.

Scholars have termed Enuma Elish the “Babylonian Genesis.” The reason is that both stories share some concepts that were immediately apparent.

In both stories, matter exists when creation begins. Similar to Enuma Elish, Genesis 1 describes God ordering chaos, not creating something out of nothing.
Darkness precedes the creative acts.

continued

https://biologos.org/articles/genesis-1-and-a-babylonian-creation-story
 
kudzu said:
Enuma Elish - The Babylonian Epic of Creation - Full Text ...
https://www.ancient.eu/article/225

1 When the heavens above did not exist, 2 And earth beneath had not come into being — 3 There …
1 Tia-mat gathered together her creation. 2 And organised battle against the gods, her offspring. 3 …
1 Anšar opened his mouth. 2 And addressed Kaka, his vizier, 3 "Vizier Kaka, who gratifies my …
1 They set a lordly dais for him. 2 And he took his seat before his fathers to receive kingship. 3 …
See all full list on ancient.eu
The Enuma Elish: The Babylonian Creation Myth - CRI/Voice
www.crivoice.org › Bible Topics › History and Culture

The Enuma Elish is a Babylonian or Mesopotamian myth of creation recounting the struggle between cosmic order and chaos. It is basically a myth of the cycle of seasons. It is named after its opening words and was recited on the fourth day of the ancient Babylonian New Year's festival. The basic story exists in various forms in the area.
Click to expand...

and this is the creation story you say the Jews copied in Genesis?..........just out of curiosity, have you ever read Genesis......
 
kudzu said:
But it was the religious texts found there that got the most attention. One of those texts bore striking similarities to Genesis 1.

How people viewed Genesis would never be the same again.

Found among the ruins was a Babylonian creation story referred to today as Enuma Elish. It is a story about a highly dysfunctional divine family engaged in a major power struggle at the dawn of time. The heart of the story is where the god Marduk kills his nemesis Tiamat and then fillets her body in two, making the sky out of one half and the earth out of the other. Thus, Marduk claims the throne as the high god in the pantheon.

Scholars have termed Enuma Elish the “Babylonian Genesis.” The reason is that both stories share some concepts that were immediately apparent.
Click to expand...

can you identify one of these similarities?......
 
PostmodernProphet said:
and this is the creation story you say the Jews copied in Genesis?..........just out of curiosity, have you ever read Genesis......
Click to expand...

Many times..

There are several versions of the Babylonian creation story.. The Hebrews learned it when they were in exile in Babylon for 70 years.. They used it to write their own creation myth.

Prior to that and the writing of Leviticus and Deuteronomy they had no identity, origin myths or national narrative.
 
kudzu said:
There are several versions of the Babylonian creation story.. .
Click to expand...

why can't you find one that has some similarity with the Genesis story......after all, its your claim that the Jews copied the Babylonian story.....I put it to you that it is obvious you are lying since you cannot find a single Babylonian story that sounds ever remotely like anything that is written in Genesis.......doesn't that embarrass you?.......
 
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