The Grand Old Meltdown

[Guno צְבִי]

while speaking via Zoom to a promising group of politically inclined high school students, I was met with an abrupt line of inquiry. “I’m sorry, but I still don’t understand,” said one young man, his pitch a blend of curiosity and exasperation. “What do Republicans believe? What does it mean to be a Republican?”

You could forgive a 17-year-old, who has come of age during Donald Trump’s reign, for failing to recognize a cohesive doctrine that guides the president’s party. The supposed canons of GOP orthodoxy—limited government, free enterprise, institutional conservation, moral rectitude, fiscal restraint, global leadership—have in recent years gone from elastic to expendable. Identifying this intellectual vacuum is easy enough. Far more difficult is answering the question of what, quite specifically, has filled it.


I decided to call Frank Luntz. Perhaps no person alive has spent more time polling Republican voters and counseling Republican politicians than Luntz, the 58-year-old focus group guru. His research on policy and messaging has informed a generation of GOP lawmakers. His ability to translate between D.C. and the provinces—connecting the concerns of everyday people to their representatives in power—has been unsurpassed. If anyone had an answer, it would be Luntz.

“You know I don’t have a history of dodging questions. But I don’t know how to answer that. There is no consistent philosophy,” Luntz responded. “You can’t say it’s about making America great again at a time of Covid and economic distress and social unrest. It’s just not credible.”



https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/08/24/republicanmeltdown-trump-convention-400039

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Let's assume that the above is completely accurate, that the GOP has no coherent, cohesive doctrine. Okay, what's the alternative?

I ask because for me--and I'm not a Republican--the alternative is the Progressive Leftist platform of the Democrats. That puts me in a position where it becomes vote for anyone but a Democrat. The reason is their platform both by observed ruination of Democrat run states and cities over decades, along with the general offensiveness of heavy handed, dictatorial government rule harms me personally, socially, and economically. Therefore, I have every reason to vote against Democrats and not for them.
Now, given that in the US we have a system where there are just two viable parties to vote for, I'm left with voting Republican for the most part unless I feel confident the Democrat for a particular office won't win.

So, that's how I would answer that question. Anything is better than suffering through Progressive Leftist government.

 

[archives]

Let's assume that the above is completely accurate, that the GOP has no coherent, cohesive doctrine. Okay, what's the alternative?

I ask because for me--and I'm not a Republican--the alternative is the Progressive Leftist platform of the Democrats. That puts me in a position where it becomes vote for anyone but a Democrat. The reason is their platform both by observed ruination of Democrat run states and cities over decades, along with the general offensiveness of heavy handed, dictatorial government rule harms me personally, socially, and economically. Therefore, I have every reason to vote against Democrats and not for them.
Now, given that in the US we have a system where there are just two viable parties to vote for, I'm left with voting Republican for the most part unless I feel confident the Democrat for a particular office won't win.

So, that's how I would answer that question. Anything is better than suffering through Progressive Leftist government.

Bullshit

First off, you may not be a Republican, but you sure as hell are a fan of right wing demagoguery, no nonpartisan observer generalizes with the correct radio rhetoric as you employed in the post

Secondly, those “ruined Democrat States” are the leading States in the US in just about any category you want to measure to include “socially or economically,” America isn’t famous nor thrives on the reality of its Kansas nor Mississippi, without those “ruined Democrat States” we would resemble Albania

Lastly, the point of the thread is correct, the GOP has been co opted by the cult of Trump, it has forgotten what was once its’ long standing principles, weak Executive, Fiscal conservatism, limited Federal Gov’t, Family values, Judicial restrain, etc

 

[Charoite]

while speaking via Zoom to a promising group of politically inclined high school students, I was met with an abrupt line of inquiry. “I’m sorry, but I still don’t understand,” said one young man, his pitch a blend of curiosity and exasperation. “What do Republicans believe? What does it mean to be a Republican?”

You could forgive a 17-year-old, who has come of age during Donald Trump’s reign, for failing to recognize a cohesive doctrine that guides the president’s party. The supposed canons of GOP orthodoxy—limited government, free enterprise, institutional conservation, moral rectitude, fiscal restraint, global leadership—have in recent years gone from elastic to expendable. Identifying this intellectual vacuum is easy enough. Far more difficult is answering the question of what, quite specifically, has filled it.


I decided to call Frank Luntz. Perhaps no person alive has spent more time polling Republican voters and counseling Republican politicians than Luntz, the 58-year-old focus group guru. His research on policy and messaging has informed a generation of GOP lawmakers. His ability to translate between D.C. and the provinces—connecting the concerns of everyday people to their representatives in power—has been unsurpassed. If anyone had an answer, it would be Luntz.

“You know I don’t have a history of dodging questions. But I don’t know how to answer that. There is no consistent philosophy,” Luntz responded. “You can’t say it’s about making America great again at a time of Covid and economic distress and social unrest. It’s just not credible.”



https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/08/24/republicanmeltdown-trump-convention-400039

I'm partial Conservative but republican values just seem like a bunch of fundie and big money interest folded into what I will describe as one big shit lasagna. They are hardly Conservative anymore as those values are often ditched when the shoe is on the other foot.

 

[TexanManWithPlans]

Let's assume that the above is completely accurate, that the GOP has no coherent, cohesive doctrine. Okay, what's the alternative?

I ask because for me--and I'm not a Republican--the alternative is the Progressive Leftist platform of the Democrats. That puts me in a position where it becomes vote for anyone but a Democrat. The reason is their platform both by observed ruination of Democrat run states and cities over decades, along with the general offensiveness of heavy handed, dictatorial government rule harms me personally, socially, and economically. Therefore, I have every reason to vote against Democrats and not for them.
Now, given that in the US we have a system where there are just two viable parties to vote for, I'm left with voting Republican for the most part unless I feel confident the Democrat for a particular office won't win.

So, that's how I would answer that question. Anything is better than suffering through Progressive Leftist government.

Progressive government works elsewhere in the world.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Progressive government works elsewhere in the world.

Yea, tell that to the Greeks or Italians...

 

[Yakuda]

Let's assume that the above is completely accurate, that the GOP has no coherent, cohesive doctrine. Okay, what's the alternative?

I ask because for me--and I'm not a Republican--the alternative is the Progressive Leftist platform of the Democrats. That puts me in a position where it becomes vote for anyone but a Democrat. The reason is their platform both by observed ruination of Democrat run states and cities over decades, along with the general offensiveness of heavy handed, dictatorial government rule harms me personally, socially, and economically. Therefore, I have every reason to vote against Democrats and not for them.
Now, given that in the US we have a system where there are just two viable parties to vote for, I'm left with voting Republican for the most part unless I feel confident the Democrat for a particular office won't win.

So, that's how I would answer that question. Anything is better than suffering through Progressive Leftist government.

This is a spot fucking on post!!!

 

[Yakuda]

Progressive government works elsewhere in the world.

Where?

 

[TexanManWithPlans]

Where?

Japan and Canada are two examples. Western Europe, too.

Would Monopoly be fair if the wealthiest player gets to invent rules and change rules to his convenience? That's why we need more socialist capitalism in the US.

 

[Yakuda]

Japan and Canada are two examples. Western Europe, too.

Would Monopoly be fair if the wealthiest player gets to invent rules and change rules to his convenience? That's why we need more socialist capitalism in the US.

So you think things should be "fair" is that it?

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Japan and Canada are two examples. Western Europe, too.

Neither practices Socialism or Progressivism. They have a few socialized things in place usually in competition with private industry. Neither uses a government planned or run economy.

Would Monopoly be fair if the wealthiest player gets to invent rules and change rules to his convenience? That's why we need more socialist capitalism in the US.

That would be Statist Capitalism or Socialism. The government is the monopoly power over the economy even if the means of production remains in private hands. But because the biggest companies can get the government's attention they can collude with the government to set the rules to favor them and eliminate competition. So, the Progressive ideas of more regulation and government control of the economy are the ones that meet your criteria closest.

 

[TexanManWithPlans]

So you think things should be "fair" is that it?

I have a simple belief. If you play by the rules and work hard, you should have a decent life and a shot at a really great life. There's something not quite right in the world when billionaires and starving babies coexist on the same planet.

 

[TexanManWithPlans]

Neither practices Socialism or Progressivism. They have a few socialized things in place usually in competition with private industry. Neither uses a government planned or run economy.



That would be Statist Capitalism or Socialism. The government is the monopoly power over the economy even if the means of production remains in private hands. But because the biggest companies can get the government's attention they can collude with the government to set the rules to favor them and eliminate competition. So, the Progressive ideas of more regulation and government control of the economy are the ones that meet your criteria closest.

You neither know what we "evil progressives" actually want, nor do you seem to grasp what socialist capitalism is.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_market_economy

 

[Yakuda]

I have a simple belief. If you play by the rules and work hard, you should have a decent life and a shot at a really great life. There's something not quite right in the world when billionaires and starving babies coexist on the same planet.

And in general people who actually do play by the rules and work hard do better than just ok and out themselves im a position to have a really great life. Its amazingly simplistic to conclude that the world is unfair because you can see billionaires starving babies on the same planet. There has never been not will there ever be a time in human history when there aren't those stark differences.

 

[TexanManWithPlans]

And in general people who actually do play by the rules and work hard do better than just ok and out themselves im a position to have a really great life. Its amazingly simplistic to conclude that the world is unfair because you can see billionaires starving babies on the same planet. There has never been not will there ever be a time in human history when there aren't those stark differences.

But it's not fair when the wealthy get to play by special rules to magnify their wealth even more. There are many loopholes to skip on taxes, for instance.

 

[Yakuda]

But it's not fair when the wealthy get to play by special rules to magnify their wealth even more. There are many loopholes to skip on taxes, for instance.

50 % of Americans pay no federal income tax at all and again you're assuming it should be fair.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

You neither know what we "evil progressives" actually want, nor do you seem to grasp what socialist capitalism is.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_market_economy

This is what the US already has. The problem with it, is when you get Progressives in power who KNOW with absolute certainty that what they want is what everyone wants, that KNOW their solution to a problem is the ONLY solution and that solution involves using the coercion of government through laws, regulations, and enforcement to make everyone comply regardless of outcome.

An example of this in the Democrat party right now, today, is The New Green Deal. It doesn't matter that solar and wind don't work. It doesn't matter these drive the cost of electricity through the rafters and have done exactly that everywhere something like the New Green Deal has been applied in whole or part. Slapping massive taxes on one group or another to pay for some Socialist program regardless of history is always part of any Progressive program. Tax the Rich. Tax Big Corporations. There's always some group that should pay for everyone else... That is right up until they leave where they can't be taxed, collapse because they can no longer afford the tax, or are pushed into failure in some other way.

I grasp that the ideal sounds great, its the repeated historical failures of such policies that bother me. Sure, in moderation such a system might work, but the Left is anything but moderate. With them it's All of nothing, our way or the highway. That's why the House can't work with the Senate or President right now. The Progressives and Leftists in the Democrat party have gained sufficient power to make any compromise impossible. That then results in pushback from the non-Left and what you get is an angry stalemate.

If Biden and the Progressive wing of the Democrat party get in power like they did when Bill Clinton and Barack Obama first came to office, they'll get two years. Then they will be tossed out of Congress wholesale because of their overreaching, expensive, economy killing actions. Clinton figured that out PDQ and went the moderate route with the Republicans. That was a success. Obama didn't have a clue and we got six years of impasse with nothing being done. Biden is simply too senile these days to be effective. So, we'll get two years of disaster followed by two years of stalemate then the Democrats will be largely out of power for another decade before people forget what they did and we go through another cycle of this crap.

 

[TexanManWithPlans]

50 % of Americans pay no federal income tax at all and again you're assuming it should be fair.

Oh. So now you're for taxing when it hurts the working poor. Classy.

You should know that none of us pay taxes on the first several thousand dollars we earn in a given year. It's just that some Americans earn so little that they manage to avoid most or all taxes via rebate.

Why do you whine about this, yet turn a blind eye when the billionaire uses dozens of loopholes to avoid taxes?

 

[TexanManWithPlans]

This is what the US already has. The problem with it, is when you get Progressives in power who KNOW with absolute certainty that what they want is what everyone wants, that KNOW their solution to a problem is the ONLY solution and that solution involves using the coercion of government through laws, regulations, and enforcement to make everyone comply regardless of outcome.

An example of this in the Democrat party right now, today, is The New Green Deal. It doesn't matter that solar and wind don't work. It doesn't matter these drive the cost of electricity through the rafters and have done exactly that everywhere something like the New Green Deal has been applied in whole or part. Slapping massive taxes on one group or another to pay for some Socialist program regardless of history is always part of any Progressive program. Tax the Rich. Tax Big Corporations. There's always some group that should pay for everyone else... That is right up until they leave where they can't be taxed, collapse because they can no longer afford the tax, or are pushed into failure in some other way.

I grasp that the ideal sounds great, its the repeated historical failures of such policies that bother me. Sure, in moderation such a system might work, but the Left is anything but moderate. With them it's All of nothing, our way or the highway. That's why the House can't work with the Senate or President right now. The Progressives and Leftists in the Democrat party have gained sufficient power to make any compromise impossible. That then results in pushback from the non-Left and what you get is an angry stalemate.

If Biden and the Progressive wing of the Democrat party get in power like they did when Bill Clinton and Barack Obama first came to office, they'll get two years. Then they will be tossed out of Congress wholesale because of their overreaching, expensive, economy killing actions. Clinton figured that out PDQ and went the moderate route with the Republicans. That was a success. Obama didn't have a clue and we got six years of impasse with nothing being done. Biden is simply too senile these days to be effective. So, we'll get two years of disaster followed by two years of stalemate then the Democrats will be largely out of power for another decade before people forget what they did and we go through another cycle of this crap.

Caring about the planet and investing in alternative energy are good things. Any child understands this.

 

[Yakuda]

Oh. So now you're for taxing when it hurts the working poor. Classy.

You should know that none of us pay taxes on the first several thousand dollars we earn in a given year. It's just that some Americans earn so little that they manage to avoid most or all taxes via rebate.

Why do you whine about this, yet turn a blind eye when the billionaire uses dozens of loopholes to avoid taxes?

Stop being a fucking drama queen. The bottom line reality is taxes arent a punishment. The "rich" that you want to rape to support all your social programs don't exist in large enough numbers to pay for it all. Do you know how the Scandinavian countries that you people love so much pay for it all? Payroll taxes on EVERYONE and a consumption tax that EVERYONE pays when they buy anything. You fucking whiny ass pricks would shit your pants. You want the 1% to pay for it all. It can't be done.

Taxes aren't a stick to beat people with but thats exactly what you dumb mthterfuckers use it for.