The greatest success story in physics

... a Department of Energy graphic that summarized the fundamental fermion particles, the force carriers, and Higgs field of the Standard Model.
Too funny. Not only do you not know the difference between a model and what it represents, not only do you think that forces are carried, not only do you think that theories are somehow found/discovered, but you think that a model can somehow be complete.

Why do you only read crap by people who lead you astray?
 
What do you mean by "the standard model"? Are you asserting the same thing that Cypress is? If you are, then please name one way in which humanity has somehow benefitted from this particular unverified and unfalsifiable speculation.


It's not a theory if it's an attempt at a theory.
I accept the fact that physics keeps getting more difficult to test so the standard model may be the last that has experiments and makes predictions. I'm old-fashioned, so I like to see that in science.
 
I asked you what you mean by "the standard model".

Do you believe that there are science models that include leptons and gluons?
I'm not here to jump through your hoops. I don't keep up with physics the way I used to, yet the standard model is but one theory that is stuck in my head.
 
Thank you.

The loud mouthed poseur IBDumbass never heard of it until I brought it up, and he was completely befuddled by a Department of Energy graphic that summarized the fundamental fermion particles, the force carriers, and Higgs field of the Standard Model.

His sock puppet Into the Night has been roaming around this thread claiming there is no such thing as the standard model.:laugh:



I concur that after a flurry of activity in the 60s and 70s, progress on the Standard Model slowed to a crawl, but maybe that's because it's an almost complete theory of physical reality outside of gravity.
IBD has yet to post anything that got me interested enough to have a conversation with him.
 
I'm not here to jump through your hoops.
I totally get it. You're here to EVADE any questions that reveal that you don't have a clue about anything you are gibbering. I only wish you would just come out and admit it.

I don't keep up with physics the way I used to,
Physics is not something you "keep up with." Physics is something you learn and test and keep in your repertoire.

... yet the standard model is but one theory that is stuck in my head.
... and you don't even know what that supposedly means. If you are asked what you mean by the term, you haven't a clue and you are forced to EVADE (because you are dishonest).

Well, I think we're done here.
 
IBD has yet to post anything that got me interested enough to have a conversation with him.
... because you don't understand any of the concepts. You'd have to learn a lot just to open a dialog. That would be work, and you can't just start learning new things on a mere whim, now can you. That's just not who you are.

Could you at least babble some meaningless terms, e.g. "it's the forever wars of the military industrial complex that brings about forever wars." You don't necessarily corner the market on meaningless gibberish, but you have a great track record for producing very fine vapid crap.
 
... because you don't understand any of the concepts. You'd have to learn a lot just to open a dialog. That would be work, and you can't just start learning new things on a mere whim, now can you. That's just not who you are.

Could you at least babble some meaningless terms, e.g. "it's the forever wars of the military industrial complex that brings about forever wars." You don't necessarily corner the market on meaningless gibberish, but you have a great track record for producing very fine vapid crap.
I don't post on threads I know nothing about. I know the standard model is an important part in the evolution of particle physics.
 
[WARNING FLAG] Poster opening with a littany of supposed "credentials" on an anonymous message board[/WARNING FLAG] What does this tell me? You're about to lie and insult in the most extremely generic way, avoiding all specifics that would reveal that you have no clue on the subject matter. Go ahead and begin, but before you do, know that I'm not buying any of your claimed credentials and I will be scrutinizing your words to see if they stand on their own.


So, no specific errors with anyting that I have written, I see. Aren't you the guy who thinks that carbon is a hydrocarbon? Wait, yes you are as a matter of fact. ... and aren't you the scientifically illiterate moron who believes in Global Warming and who denies all science as demanded by his religious faith? Wait, yes you are as a matter of fact.

You aren't any sort of scientist, that much is obvious. You are as scientifically illiterate as a doorknob. You insist that coal is a hydrocarbon. Nobody but a Marxist political think-tank would hire you as a scientist. Let's take a look at how much Global Warming science you have contributed to the thread Why Should Anyone Believe in Global Warming. Oh look, you've added none. Hmmmm.

If we did deeper, will we also discover that you are mathematically incompetent as well? Let's find out, shall we? [yes, we shall]

What's the earth's average global equilibrium temperature, what is the margin of error, and how was this computed?

[

I could care less what ignorant shitheads like you think and am certainly not going to waste my time arguing with one.
 
What do you mean by "the standard model"?
:laugh: This thread has been wildly successful. It was flypaper that caught Rightwing trolls who claim scientific literacy, and exposed them as scientific illiterates :laugh:

The Standard Model of particle physics is one of the most important theories in the history of science. America's premier particle physics lab calls it the most successful theory ever:

"The Standard Model: The most successful theory ever" (Fermilab National Physics Lab)

But you and your sock puppet Into the Night have been roaming around the thread demonstrating your ignorance of it's existence :laugh:

Darwin's theory of evolution is not science
:lolup::lolup::lolup::lolup::lolup::lolup:
hint: energy and matter are not interchangeable
:lolup::lolup::lolup::lolup::lolup::lolup:
Wave-Particle duality is classical physics.
:lolup::lolup::lolup::lolup::lolup::lolup:
There is no such thing as an accelerating reference frame!!
:lolup::lolup::lolup::lolup::lolup::lolup:
science doesn't explain anything about nature!
:lolup::lolup::lolup::lolup::lolup::lolup:
:magagrin:
 
I'm a troll! :orang:



What do you mean by "the standard model"?

There is no such thing as a 'standard model' [of particle physics].


:laugh: Mission accomplished! I put this thread out as fly paper to trap Rightwing Trolls who bluster about their supposed scientific literacy, and expose them as scientific illiterates and frantic Googlers :laugh:.

Evolution and the Big Bang are part of popular culture, but the Standard Model tends to only be familiar to people who actively read science journalism, even though it is one of the most important scientific theories in human history.

:magagrin:
 
Please read through the entire post before responding. I am making a point here, but it takes a bit to get to it. It explains why I use the wording I use.
A theory is an assertion.
No. A theory is an explanatory argument. I will show why below.
A science theory/model is a falsifiable assertion.
No. A theory of science is falsifiable. Other than that, it is no different from any other theory (including those that became religions). I will show why below.
Assertions are neither explanations nor arguments.
A theory is both.

Every theory has predicates.
Every theory has a conclusion based on those predicates. (These two characteristics make every theory an argument)
Every theory is explaining something. That is no different with any theory of science. Take F=mA, for example. Newton didn't just come up with this theory in a vacuum. It is an explanation of observed phenomena and a coalition of existing theories into one.

You really should learn the history of various theories of science and how they came to be. NONE of them were developed in a vacuum. NONE of them are simple assertions that are just made with no explanation of something.

A prosecutor will present his theory/theorem (assertion) to the jury.

At that point it becomes incumbent upon him to form a valid argument that results in the theory/assertion being concluded, otherwise his theory/assertion is rejected and the accused is presumed innocent. The prosecutor is responsible for explaining all aspects of the argument to the jury's satisfaction in order to transform the valid argument into a sound argument, for the jury to accept concluding the assertion/theory as being correct.
Oops. You forgot the requirement of a crime that has to be explained. Any prosecutor presenting an assertion that doesn't have a crime to explain isn't going to get far! This is actually one of the biggest reasons that much of the persecution of Trump by Democrats doesn't really stick. They simply assert a 'crime' where no crime occurred. There is nothing to explain.
A scientist will present his falsifiable theory/theorem (assertion) to the public.
Not a simple assertion. ALL theories are explaining something...even theories of science, which explain some observed phenomena, or combines other theories based on that.
At that point it becomes incumbent upon the public to show that it is false, and all are empowered to do so if they can.
Fine.
The scientific method, a systematic battery of tests, is applied in an attempt to show the assertion false.
No 'systematic battery of tests'. ANY test that shows the theory is wrong will work. ANY single test.
After internal and external consistency is tested,
Internal consistency checks are NOT part of science, but of logic. ALL theories, both nonscientific theories and theories of science, must pass the Internal Consistency Check, or it's not a theory at all. It's a fallacy.

External consistency checks are part of logic, but also discuss the requirements of theories of science. This is nothing more than an expression of set exclusivity among theories of science (or anything else that makes use of such exclusivity).

an hypothesis is cherry-picked (devised, hand-crafted) that seemingly has the best chance at showing the assertion to be false.
You are describing a test, not a hypothesis. Tests are against the null hypothesis of a theory.
If the assertion is not falsified, the theory/assertion remains as science.
WRONG.
Anyone can make a simple assertion. That does NOT make it a theory of science by any means. Example:

I can simply assert that a god exists. That is not a theory of science. It is nothing more than a simple assertion. I don't even have to explain what this 'god' is. Note that this assertion doesn't explain anything at all.
According to your reasoning, this assertion is automatically part of the body of science until someone can prove it False.

Obviously, this line of reasoning results in an attempt to force a negative proof, a fallacy. Science is not based on any fallacy or fallacious reasoning.

As Newton developed F=mA, he was explaining why observed cannonballs or even a thrown stone or ball followed a parabolic curve, why Galileo's measurements were so consistent, why other things seem to fall straight to ground, and why the planets followed their regular courses (from Kepler) and saw he could combine them all into a single relationship.
I hate to splash you with cold water, but Newton's law F=mA accurately predicts that a mass of 10kg will accelerate at 10 meters/second^2 in the direction of an applied force of 10 Newtons, as a direct effect of that specific cause.
Circular argument fallacy. You cannot use the conclusion as a cause in a theory of science. You just violated the internal consistency check.
The prediction never explains why this will happen, just that you should bet your money on it, and that you should rest assured developing your technology based on the belief that this will always be the result.
Narrow thinking. The explanation why a theory states what it states is NOT based on the theory itself. That forms circular reasoning.
You will never, ever, ever, know why this happens ... only that it will, each and every time.
Correct. Newton observed the phenomena of gravity's effects, created a relationship to explain it, but never attempted to explain what caused gravity itself. He simply accepted that it exists as a force of nature. Once this theory is in place, a question becomes: what OTHER forces of nature are there? How many? This sort of question was never really brought up with such focus before Newton's theory of motion (and also his theory of gravitational attraction).
Explanations, and questions of "why" are not in the purview of science;
But they are. EVERY SINGLE THEORY of science is explaining something. Either observed phenomena, or how existing theories (based on that) fit together into a single relationship.

Again, I urge you to study the history of science, how these theories came into being, and the fascinating stories behind them. NONE of these theories are just an assertion made in a vacuum.
however, if you know any Christians or other religious people, they are better suited to address such questions and to offer such explanations.
Religion is not science. You already know that. BOTH use theories, however. BOTH use those theories to explain various phenomena. The big difference is that a theory of science can be tested to see if it's wrong. A nonscientific theory (which all religions are based upon), cannot. This is the sole difference.
I realize that it is common for people to use wording to the effect of science "explaining why things are."
That is exactly what science does. It is also exactly what religion does.
The sole difference between them is that theories of science are falsifiable. They can be tested to try to break the theory. A nonscientific theory cannot. All religions are based on some initial circular argument with arguments extending from that. Many of these are theories, just no theories of science.
Unfortunately, science is just a collection of models, which are assertions, and can neither argue nor explain.
No. The model is the noun. The theory is the verb, using the model to represent a snippet of the universe the theory is explaining. The model AND the theory are specifically created for the purpose.
They predict nature through mathematically/formally-expressed relationships/constraints.
Models don't predict anything. Theories don't predict anything. Prediction is not possible in an open functional system (such as science). The theory MUST be transcribed (or created within) a closed functional system to gain the power of the formal proof and the power of prediction that comes with it. Mathematics, of course, is such a closed functional system and has within it the power of prediction and the power of the formal proof. One comes with the other.
Whereas I don't prefer your wording, I totally agree with your point.
I realize you don't prefer my wording, but this wording comes from the English language, logic, and philosophy. Philosophy, I might point out, that you have already agreed to it's reasoning.
The purpose of science is to predict the effect of a cause, i.e. cause-->effect, and that requires the model to be unambiguous, i.e. expressed mathematically or otherwise formally in some manner. Technically, science is currently being expressed in SysML and displayed in parametric diagrams in efforts to develop technology, as one example (although it's still math at its base).
And here it is, all hanging out pink and naked. Theories of science predict a cause->effect. They are explaining why the cause->effect takes place! Once inside mathematics, a closed functional system, the power of prediction of that cause->effect becomes possible.

Technology, however, is NOT science. It certainly makes use of it, but it itself is not science. Engineering is not science. Technology is the result of engineering.

This is just another face of the warmizombie tactic of lifting bogus charts and graphics off the internet and presenting them as trump cards to win some sort of religious argument. "Hey, didn't you see the chart I posted? That debate is over!" "Hey, didn't you see the artwork I posted? All other achievements of humanity have been discarded in shame!"
This you have pegged exactly. We have seen this so many times before. This kind of behavior is mostly a collection of buzzword fallacies (they don't even know what their magick phrases even mean most of the time!). It also makes use of redefinition fallacies (including redefining some theory of science to some nightmare bastardization by adding or deleting or arbitrarily changing units of a relationship to take it out of context). Contextomy fallacies are also common, of course, since the theory redefinitions are often based on that. They then finish off with a circular argument fallacy showing their 'proof' (which is only based on fallacies itself) that their theory is True.

Discussions of Bessler wheels, Global Warming, Ozone Holes, Magick Bacteria and the I'm a Famous Scientist types (and others that like to puff themselves up using 'scientific' buzzwords), Perpetual Motion Machine types, etc. ALL do this. We have seen it. You and I have seen these types for years.

Yes. It does get old. I frankly don't blame you for getting particularly snarky with them. Some of your memes are getting particularly good!
 
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