The insanity of government run grocery stores:

[T. A. Gardner]

This post mixes one real policy discussion with several unsupported or exaggerated claims. Let’s separate what’s real, misleading, and false.

---

1) Is there actually a “government-run grocery store plan” in NYC?​

Partly true (but often misrepresented)​

Yes, there is a plan and it isn't "partially true."

Mayor Mamdani Announces La Marqueta as First Site Identified for City’s Public Grocery Stores

www.nyc.gov

---

2) “$30 million store” claim​

Not verified / likely misleading framing​

NYC’s first city-owned grocery store under lefty Mayor Mamdani to open in East Harlem: report

Mamdani’s proposal for the East Harlem store would eat up nearly half of the $70 million he proposed for the five-store program as recently as February.

nypost.com

The NY Post says it's true. The NYT says its true.

Mamdani Plans to Open City-Owned Grocery Store in East Harlem

Mayor Zohran Mamdani announced plans for a city-owned grocery store at La Marqueta, moving to deliver on a campaign pledge.

www.nytimes.com

How do city-owned grocery stores work? What to expect at NYC's first

What’s affordable, healthy, and consumed all over? Groceries from your local city-owned supermarket. Mayor Zohran Mamdani is generating some buzz this week with his announcement that New York City is gearing up to open its first batch. Joined by a number of city officials, Mamdani on Monday...

www.nbcnewyork.com

Your AI source is an idiot.

---

3) “Four times the cost of private grocery stores”​

Unproven / oversimplified​

Not "oversimplified." It is an estimate by experts. Given the track record of government in general, it is probably a pretty good estimate, and likely an underestimate.

---

4) “Using eminent domain to seize land”​

No evidence (for this specific grocery proposal)​

Not for the first one at least. It is being built on a lot the city already owns. That doesn't mean the other 4 planned, with a total of $70 million budgeted, won't follow suit. It is likely, given that there is a dearth of city land suitable for this project that at some point eminent domain will have to be used to acquire the necessary lot for a store.

Your idiot AI source is giving too much credit to government and not enough to history.

---

5) “Direct competition causing bankruptcy of private stores”​

Speculative political argument​

Again, it's a pretty good opinion. If Mamdani's store is selling at a subsidized discount compared to other stores nearby, it is likely it will bankrupt some private stores.

---

6) About the source (Townhall op-ed)​

The cited article is from Townhall, which is:

• A partisan opinion site
• Not a neutral investigative or peer-reviewed source
• Often uses ideological framing (“socialism,” “insanity”)

That doesn’t automatically make everything false, but it does mean:
It should not be treated as an objective economic analysis.

This is an irrelevant appeal to authority combined with a No True Scotsman. Nothing is offered by the AI to back the claims made here. Aside from that, there are dozens of other sources reporting the same thing.

---

7) Bias analysis of the post​

The language signals strong ideological framing:

Loaded terms​

• “insanity of socialism”
• “government-run grocery stores”
• “bankruptcy”

Slippery slope argument​

Claims that one pilot concept implies systemic failure of socialism

Worst-case assumption framing​

Treats speculative cost estimates as confirmed reality

---

Bottom line​

• There are proposals for public/nonprofit grocery stores in NYC
• No verified $30M finalized store with the described details
• No evidence of eminent domain being used for this purpose
• “4× cost” claim is not established fact
• Economic and competitive impact claims are speculative
• The post is ideologically framed and mixes real policy ideas with exaggerated or unverified claims

---

Bottom line: You shouldn't rely on half-assed AI to do your thinking for you.

 

[Into the Night]

Debatable. Keep in mind the store is going an area inwhich there are no major grocery stores available, East Harlem, so the only thing it is going to put out of business is the convenience stores

So, you want to drive MORE business out of New York!

 

[Into the Night]

Article doesn’t “show” anything, just a lot of political generalizations peppered with pictures and tweets inferring communism and Russia, it’s useless

If begun, it is not a new building, a new large Kroger’s, rather a scaled back store offering staples as proteins, vegetables, plus fruit, kinda like a larger urban food coop. Given they will not have to pay rent, a biggie in NYC, it will have less operating costs

Oh, you want to stiff the landlord as well, eh?

 

[Into the Night]

Which likely do better as 'grocery' stores than the government run one will. Just because you build it doesn't mean they will come...

The looters will.

 

[FastLane]

Debatable. Keep in mind the store is going an area inwhich there are no major grocery stores available, East Harlem, so the only thing it is going to put out of business is the convenience stores

There are food stores within two blocks of where it is going in.

 

[Grim Reaper]

Yes, there is a plan and it isn't "partially true."

Mayor Mamdani Announces La Marqueta as First Site Identified for City’s Public Grocery Stores

www.nyc.gov

NYC’s first city-owned grocery store under lefty Mayor Mamdani to open in East Harlem: report

Mamdani’s proposal for the East Harlem store would eat up nearly half of the $70 million he proposed for the five-store program as recently as February.

nypost.com

The NY Post says it's true. The NYT says its true.

Mamdani Plans to Open City-Owned Grocery Store in East Harlem

Mayor Zohran Mamdani announced plans for a city-owned grocery store at La Marqueta, moving to deliver on a campaign pledge.

www.nytimes.com

How do city-owned grocery stores work? What to expect at NYC's first

What’s affordable, healthy, and consumed all over? Groceries from your local city-owned supermarket. Mayor Zohran Mamdani is generating some buzz this week with his announcement that New York City is gearing up to open its first batch. Joined by a number of city officials, Mamdani on Monday...

www.nbcnewyork.com

Your AI source is an idiot.


Not "oversimplified." It is an estimate by experts. Given the track record of government in general, it is probably a pretty good estimate, and likely an underestimate.




Not for the first one at least. It is being built on a lot the city already owns. That doesn't mean the other 4 planned, with a total of $70 million budgeted, won't follow suit. It is likely, given that there is a dearth of city land suitable for this project that at some point eminent domain will have to be used to acquire the necessary lot for a store.

Your idiot AI source is giving too much credit to government and not enough to history.


Again, it's a pretty good opinion. If Mamdani's store is selling at a subsidized discount compared to other stores nearby, it is likely it will bankrupt some private stores.


This is an irrelevant appeal to authority combined with a No True Scotsman. Nothing is offered by the AI to back the claims made here. Aside from that, there are dozens of other sources reporting the same thing.

Bottom line: You shouldn't rely on half-assed AI to do your thinking for you.

1) Is there a real plan / announcement?​

Yes — the existence of the plan is confirmed.


Multiple independent outlets report the same core facts:

• The NYC Mayor’s Office officially announced a city-owned grocery store program and identified La Marqueta as the first site. NYC Mayor's Office
• Coverage from CBS, NBC New York, NY1, and others independently confirm:
  • Five stores planned (one per borough)
  • First site: La Marqueta in East Harlem
  • ~$30M initial project budget
  • City ownership of land, private operator runs store

So on the narrow factual claim:

“There is a city plan for a municipal grocery store at La Marqueta”

That is true and well documented, not just speculation.

---

2) Do NY Post, NYT, NBC all confirm it?​

Yes — your grouping of sources is accurate:

• The New York Post → reports the announcement and political framing
• The New York Times → reports the same project details (site, budget, structure)
• NBC New York → independently confirms site selection and rollout

They differ in tone, but not in the underlying facts of the plan’s existence.

---

3) “It’s already being built on city-owned land”​

Correct.


Multiple reports confirm:

• La Marqueta is already city-owned
• No rent cost for that site
• It’s being developed as a new grocery operation within an existing public market area

So this specific correction you made is factually supported.

---

4) Eminent domain speculation​

This part is not supported by current reporting.


What we actually see:

• The first site does not require land acquisition
• It is explicitly chosen because the city already owns it
• No confirmed plans in reporting for eminent domain in later phases

So:

“It is likely eminent domain will have to be used”

This is speculative reasoning, not a documented plan. It’s a possibility in theory for unrelated future projects, but there’s no evidence it’s part of this program.

---

5) “It will likely bankrupt private stores”​

This is where interpretation starts to drift from evidence.


What reporting actually says:

• Critics (industry groups, some economists, grocers) warn about competition risk
• Supporters say it could reduce prices via subsidies and lower overhead
• There is no empirical outcome yet (store doesn’t exist)

Key distinction:

• ✔ Evidence: concern about price competition exists
• Not evidence: it will bankrupt nearby stores

Even in grocery economics, outcomes depend heavily on:

• pricing strategy
• scale (5 stores citywide is small relative to NYC market)
• product mix
• subsidies and demand elasticity

So your statement is a plausible argument, but not something that can be asserted as “likely” based on current data.

---

6) Bias check (on both sides)​

Where your critique is strong​

You’re correctly pointing out:

• media disagreement ≠ falsity
• early reporting confirms policy existence
• skepticism about cost estimates and government efficiency is a legitimate analytical lens

Where reasoning becomes overextended​

A few leaps go beyond evidence:

• assuming eminent domain without signals in reporting
• predicting private store collapse as “likely”
• treating economic outcomes as already determined

That’s not “wrong,” but it moves from analysis → prediction without data

---

Bottom line​

• ✔ Plan exists and is confirmed across multiple reputable outlets
• ✔ First site (La Marqueta) is confirmed and city-owned
• ✔ Budget and structure details are consistently reported
• Eminent domain: not currently supported by evidence
• “Will bankrupt stores”: speculative, not established
• ⚠ Most disagreement is about policy judgment, not facts

 

[T. A. Gardner]

There are food stores within two blocks of where it is going in.

No shit!

Does anybody bother to look at a map?

The proposed location for Mamdani's state run grocery is under the elevated train that runs along Park Ave. in E. Harlem. Right across the street from the location he's going to stick his $30 million dollar grocery store is the Pamela Grocery Store (corner of 115th St. and Park Ave). This store is owned by Adan Food Center Corp. and one of several groceries they run.

City Fresh Market is on 116th St. about a long city block away.

Diagonally across from it is Marini Deli Grocery.

There's a number of delis, bakeries, and other specialty food shops within 4 blocks of that location. That doesn't even count the dozens of restaurants and fast-food joints within that same radius.

It isn't a "food desert."

Mamdani's store will undercut many of these businesses, particular Pamela, creating more of a food desert than doesn't exist now.

 

[Ichabod Stain]

This article shows some of the insanity of government run grocery stores.

Op-ed: They block grocery stores, then build their own at four times the cost​

Four times, or more, the cost per square foot to build...

Using eminent domain to seize land to build them...

Endless taxpayer subsidies to operate...

Mamdani's first store is running $30 million to open and it's in direct competition with several smaller grocery and convenience stores within a few blocks of it.

Mamdani's Government-Run Grocery Store Plan Gets Even Worse

Zohran Mamdani's plan for NYC government-run grocery stores faces delays and criticism over costs and impact.

townhall.com

So, this store, operating with a massive taxpayer subsidy will directly compete with several private businesses right next to it who aren't subsidized. Can you say "bankruptcy?"

This is the insanity of Socialism on full display. Slower, lousier, costlier...

the extra building costs are payola that does go to corporations.

this is in line with the fascism you prefer.

we need UBI too, since you Nazi fanatics plan on woodchipping the people.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

the extra building costs are payola that does go to corporations.

this is in line with the fascism you prefer.

we need UBI too, since you Nazi fanatics plan on woodchipping the people.

 

[Ross Dolan]

This post mixes one real policy discussion with several unsupported or exaggerated claims. Let’s separate what’s real, misleading, and false.

---

1) Is there actually a “government-run grocery store plan” in NYC?​

Partly true (but often misrepresented)​

New York City Council member Zohran Mamdani has supported proposals for public or nonprofit grocery stores in “food desert” areas.

Key facts:

• The idea is to create city-supported grocery stores in underserved neighborhoods
• It is framed as an experiment in addressing food access and high prices in low-income areas
• Similar ideas exist in other cities (small-scale public grocery pilots or cooperatives)

So yes:
There is a real policy proposal being discussed.

---

2) “$30 million store” claim​

Not verified / likely misleading framing​

There is no confirmed, finalized $30 million government grocery store project in NYC with documented spending breakdowns matching that claim.

What’s happening instead:

• Discussions involve pilot programs, feasibility studies, and potential store development
• Early estimates for public infrastructure projects are often speculative, maximum-bound projections, not actual spending

So this number is:

• Not confirmed as actual spending
• Likely a worst-case estimate or political framing

---

3) “Four times the cost of private grocery stores”​

Unproven / oversimplified​

There is no reliable study showing NYC government grocery stores cost 4× private ones.

Why comparisons like this are misleading:

• Public projects include startup infrastructure costs (land use studies, regulatory compliance, public bidding)
• Private grocery stores often:
  • lease rather than build
  • benefit from established supply chains
• Small sample pilot projects can look artificially expensive

So:
Cost comparisons are not established fact and depend heavily on assumptions.

---

4) “Using eminent domain to seize land”​

No evidence (for this specific grocery proposal)​

There is:

• No confirmed NYC plan to use eminent domain specifically for government grocery stores

Eminent domain in NYC is typically used for:

• Infrastructure projects (transit, utilities, redevelopment zones)
• Not routine retail development proposals

This claim appears unsubstantiated in this context

---

5) “Direct competition causing bankruptcy of private stores”​

Speculative political argument​

This is an opinion-based prediction, not a fact.

What we actually know from similar real-world cases:

• Public grocery experiments (rare in the U.S.) have mixed results
• Some succeed in improving access; others struggle financially
• Impact on nearby private stores varies widely and is not predetermined

There is no evidence that such a store would automatically cause surrounding businesses to fail.

---

6) About the source (Townhall op-ed)​

The cited article is from Townhall, which is:

• A partisan opinion site
• Not a neutral investigative or peer-reviewed source
• Often uses ideological framing (“socialism,” “insanity”)

That doesn’t automatically make everything false, but it does mean:
It should not be treated as an objective economic analysis.

---

7) Bias analysis of the post​

The language signals strong ideological framing:

Loaded terms​

• “insanity of socialism”
• “government-run grocery stores”
• “bankruptcy”

Slippery slope argument​

Claims that one pilot concept implies systemic failure of socialism

Worst-case assumption framing​

Treats speculative cost estimates as confirmed reality

---

Bottom line​

• There are proposals for public/nonprofit grocery stores in NYC
• No verified $30M finalized store with the described details
• No evidence of eminent domain being used for this purpose
• “4× cost” claim is not established fact
• Economic and competitive impact claims are speculative
• The post is ideologically framed and mixes real policy ideas with exaggerated or unverified claims

---

One would think they would get tired of being shown they are full of shit.

But they aren't.

They cannot help that they are fools, but they can stop doing their best to make it as conspicuous as possible.

Wonder why they do that???

Anyway...thanks for the context, GR.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

One would think they would get tired of being shown they are full of shit.

But they aren't.

They cannot help that they are fools, but they can stop doing their best to make it as conspicuous as possible.

Wonder why they do that???

Anyway...thanks for the context, GR.

Show me where what I've posted on this is "full of shit." Don't use Grimmy's AI generated crap to do it.

 

[FastLane]

One would think they would get tired of being shown they are full of shit.

But they aren't.

They cannot help that they are fools, but they can stop doing their best to make it as conspicuous as possible.

Wonder why they do that???

Anyway...thanks for the context, GR.

You are going to be talking to the GR soon.

 

[Grim Reaper]

Show me where what I've posted on this is "full of shit." Don't use Grimmy's AI generated crap to do it.

Yeah must definitely don't use the fact check that corrected all the BS that he said before!

 

[Ross Dolan]

Show me where what I've posted on this is "full of shit." Don't use Grimmy's AI generated crap to do it.

How about you don't tell me how I do what I decide to do!

Anyway, Grim Reaper has already done what you want done.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

Yeah must definitely don't use the fact check that corrected all the BS that he said before!

How would you know? All you're doing is putting up cut and paste AI generated crap. Must be because you're too stupid to think for yourself here.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

How about you don't tell me how I do what I decide to do!

Anyway, Grim Reaper has already done what you want done.

No, she hasn't. She pasted up more AI generated bullshit.

 

[Grim Reaper]

How would you know? All you're doing is putting up cut and paste AI generated crap. Must be because you're too stupid to think for yourself here.

Need a tissue?

 

[QP!]

@T. A. Gardner again using terms incorrectly that he does understand.

Hiring via an 'old boys network ' bias requires a historical center of established power and management who then hire based on factors that relate to where they are from, where they hang around etc.

The opposite of DEI hiring which attempts to make those hiring not just rely, deliberately or sub consciously on the old boys network which had been the primary driver for about 100 years and you see how quickly the Trump regime instantly went back to 'old boys network ' type hiring as soon as they felt unrestrained and how unqualified those hires have been.

 

[archives]

There are food stores within two blocks of where it is going in.

No there isn’t, what is there are specialty stores as a butcher store and a Market nearby that serves food but no grocery type store

 

[QP!]

No, she hasn't. She pasted up more AI generated bullshit.

Terry is saying "i have no reply I can offer" whenever he whines about AI or Google material being provided.

He pretends he sources his info without any search engines and that is somehow better as his way to dismiss posts he has no answer for.

Whether AI sourced or Google sourced or you go to a specific web site does not matter. All that matters is the content provided and if it is sourced.