The Language of God

[Sammy Jankis]

I never argued quantification, you brought that up. I said it isn't the point, and it isn't. We don't need to settle the 'debate of quantifiable' because we can observe there is a difference between humans and the rest of the animal world. Whether you can personal quantify that, is irrelevant, it is a fact.

Your problem is, you don't read what is posted. You ignore it, and just continue in your own pathetic stubborn ignorance, to rant whatever you are ranting. It's as if you think you have some power of pontification, where you can make things factually accurate and true, if you just rant about it enough. But guess what? We are mostly grown-ups here, and we understand you don't have those magic powers, and the truth of the matter is, you are a clueless idiot who can't develop an argument to support the idiocy you spew. Instead, you just blather on, ignoring the points raised by whomever is debating you, refusing to acknowledge facts or accept conventional wisdom.

Listen spaz. Human curiousity is not innately different than animal curiousity. It mary vary by degrees, or might be more complex, but it's not intrinsically different. And it's conceivable the curiousity and the resultant learning and enhanced ability to predict and interact with the environment is a trait which enhanced survivability in animals or men. If you can't handle the truth, that's your problem.

Talk to the hand.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Listen spaz. Human curiousity is not innately different than animal curiousity. It mary vary by degrees, or might be more complex, but it's not intrinsically different. And it's conceivable the curiousity and the resultant learning and enhanced ability to predict and interact with the environment is a trait which enhanced survivability in animals or men. If you can't handle the truth, that's your problem.

Talk to the hand.

It's conceivable, but we should be able to observe evidence of other animals making technological advancements and accomplishments, maybe not on the level of humans, but on some level. The fact is, we don't see this in any other species except humans. We are the ones with the ability of cognitive thought and reasoning, we are the most advanced of all species, and nothing out there even comes remotely close to "second place" behind us.

So, yes... something in humans is indeed intrinsically different from the rest of the animal kingdom, whether that comports with your belief system or not, doesn't change the fact. Instead of honestly discussing what IS different in humans, you insist on arguing that we are no different than the animals, and reality is proof we are different.

 

[Whomever]

Why does logic dictate that the universe has a purpose?

 

[ib1yysguy]

It's conceivable, but we should be able to observe evidence of other animals making technological advancements and accomplishments, maybe not on the level of humans, but on some level. The fact is, we don't see this in any other species except humans. We are the ones with the ability of cognitive thought and reasoning, we are the most advanced of all species, and nothing out there even comes remotely close to "second place" behind us.

So, yes... something in humans is indeed intrinsically different from the rest of the animal kingdom, whether that comports with your belief system or not, doesn't change the fact. Instead of honestly discussing what IS different in humans, you insist on arguing that we are no different than the animals, and reality is proof we are different.

Wrong, wrong, and more wrong.

Chimps use tools. Some groups of chimps in different parts of the world employ different tools than other groups of chimps, indicating a generationally taught tradition. That's also known as "culture."

 

[Whomever]

Some birds and sea otters also use tools.

An ex girlfriends Cockatoo kept stealing all my tools.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Wrong, wrong, and more wrong.

Chimps use tools. Some groups of chimps in different parts of the world employ different tools than other groups of chimps, indicating a generationally taught tradition. That's also known as "culture."

YouTube - Chimpanzee Culture and Medicine Usage

YouTube - Chimpanzee young learning to use tools

YouTube - Chimpanzees' sophisticated use of tools - BBC wildlife

Hmmm... Have these chimps organized a construction workers union? Do they build houses for the poor in their spare time? Have any of them purchased a Yellow Pages ad or gotten a business license?

I have already admitted that animals often "learn" behavior, that isn't really something disputable, but it also doesn't have anything to do with the profound difference between humans and the rest of the animal world, when it comes to technological advancement, discovery, exploration, achievement, etc. If you are not honest enough to admit that humans possess something the rest of the animal kingdom clearly doesn't, then we can't have a rational discussion, you are split from reality and I can't help schizophrenics here.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Why does logic dictate that the universe has a purpose?

Because, why else would the universe exist?

Think about this now, we have billions of galaxies, billions of stars, plenty of opportunity for life to emerge, we have principles and laws of physics, everything symmetrically balanced, building block elements, and here on Earth, an entire system of living things, interdependent on each other, all working in harmony to thrive and grow, on a finely tuned planet complete with everything required to support life.

Logic dictates there must be some reason for it. To imagine this is all just random chance at work, and nothing in our universe really means a thing, it just happened... that is devoid of logic. If water is falling from the sky, logic dictates there must be a reason for it. It isn't something that "just happens" for no reason. We examine the phenomenon through science and we discover the reason, it is precipitation, and we learn how it works, how water evaporates into the clouds, which become saturated and eventually produce rain. We don't stubbornly insist that rain has no purpose, it just happens, because that defies logic. The same is true with the existence (and creation) of our universe.

 

[Whomever]

Because, why else would the universe exist?

Think about this now, we have billions of galaxies, billions of stars, plenty of opportunity for life to emerge, we have principles and laws of physics, everything symmetrically balanced, building block elements, and here on Earth, an entire system of living things, interdependent on each other, all working in harmony to thrive and grow, on a finely tuned planet complete with everything required to support life.

Logic dictates there must be some reason for it. To imagine this is all just random chance at work, and nothing in our universe really means a thing, it just happened... that is devoid of logic. If water is falling from the sky, logic dictates there must be a reason for it. It isn't something that "just happens" for no reason. We examine the phenomenon through science and we discover the reason, it is precipitation, and we learn how it works, how water evaporates into the clouds, which become saturated and eventually produce rain. We don't stubbornly insist that rain has no purpose, it just happens, because that defies logic. The same is true with the existence (and creation) of our universe.

Perhaps, but perhaps that purpose is not for us or God.
Do you really think that a supreme being built all of our universe just for humans?
And that of the billions and billions of planets that we are the only intelligent life in the universe?

Consider also that all of our known universe may be as an atom to something larger.

 

[Thorn]

Perhaps, but perhaps that purpose is not for us or God.
Do you really think that a supreme being built all of our universe just for humans?
And that of the billions and billions of planets that we are the only intelligent life in the universe?

Consider also that all of our known universe may be as an atom to something larger.

I suspect that that is highly likely, perhaps more than any other notion. It certainly puts us in our place, doesn't it, in terms of our significance!

 

[ib1yysguy]

Hmmm... Have these chimps organized a construction workers union? Do they build houses for the poor in their spare time? Have any of them purchased a Yellow Pages ad or gotten a business license?

I have already admitted that animals often "learn" behavior, that isn't really something disputable, but it also doesn't have anything to do with the profound difference between humans and the rest of the animal world, when it comes to technological advancement, discovery, exploration, achievement, etc. If you are not honest enough to admit that humans possess something the rest of the animal kingdom clearly doesn't, then we can't have a rational discussion, you are split from reality and I can't help schizophrenics here.

Or you can admit that you were wrong and humans aren't unique in using technology "on some level."

 

[ib1yysguy]

"Logic dictates that there must be some reason for it."

Totally bull. Logic says there doesn't need to be any reason at all. In fact, I'll bet most cosmologists who actually understand how the universe came to be (as opposed to the guy who thinks evolution can't explain an eyeball) would say just exactly that - there doesn't need to be a reason.

The fact is you are unwilling to confront the fact that the universe may have no reason for being and that is 100 percent of the reason you believe in God. The alternative is unthinkable to you because you have a very limited intellect.

 

[Whomever]

I suspect that that is highly likely, perhaps more than any other notion. It certainly puts us in our place, doesn't it, in terms of our significance!

Yes it does. Most people cannot accept that level of uncertainty or insignificance though.
Hence the crutch of religion.

Time may be involved as well. For us billiions of years may pass and for the larger scheme of things maybe only an instant passes.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Perhaps, but perhaps that purpose is not for us or God.
Do you really think that a supreme being built all of our universe just for humans?
And that of the billions and billions of planets that we are the only intelligent life in the universe?

Consider also that all of our known universe may be as an atom to something larger.

I have no idea, I have never articulated such a viewpoint. I just know that it makes no logical sense for all of the universe to be here without purpose or reason. I don't understand how rational thinking people, can simply dismiss the possibility of a supreme entity. We don't have to define it or agree on what it is (or isn't), and we don't even have to agree if such an entity really exists or not, but just the idea that it may be possible? Is that unreasonable? I don't think it is at all.

One problem I have with your comment, you seem to want to use human concepts.... "do you really think a supreme being built all of our universe" .... building would probably be something a Creator of the Universe wouldn't have to do, as it is something humans do when they want to construct. For some reason, people want to attribute humanistic qualities to a God, and I think that is a little far out there. God isn't a "he" and God doesn't live on a cloud or speak with a Charleton Heston voice. Even the concept of a "supreme being" denotes a hint of human ignorance, a God is not a "being" that is what WE are! You see, it is through this kind of ignorance we see people completely missing the concept, and making many false assumptions about God.

 

[Whomever]

Do I smell wood burning?

I am a human I can only put ideas and concepts into forms understood by humans.

What I really wanted to say was. Pogglesprak ech hirscheq demvort.
See what i mean?

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

"Logic dictates that there must be some reason for it."

Totally bull. Logic says there doesn't need to be any reason at all. In fact, I'll bet most cosmologists who actually understand how the universe came to be (as opposed to the guy who thinks evolution can't explain an eyeball) would say just exactly that - there doesn't need to be a reason.

The fact is you are unwilling to confront the fact that the universe may have no reason for being and that is 100 percent of the reason you believe in God. The alternative is unthinkable to you because you have a very limited intellect.

First of all, you are wrong, but that is no surprise. Logic does dictate there is a reason. It is illogical to conclude there is no reason for the universe, especially since you have no evidence to support that viewpoint. As for people who (presume to) understand how the universe came to be... I'll bet you not a single one of them can tell you WHY it came to be.

 

[Whomever]

First of all, you are wrong, but that is no surprise. Logic does dictate there is a reason. It is illogical to conclude there is no reason for the universe, especially since you have no evidence to support that viewpoint. As for people who (presume to) understand how the universe came to be... I'll bet you not a single one of them can tell you WHY it came to be.

And neither can a dog understand why their food comes in pellitized form from a bag.

 

[ib1yysguy]

First of all, you are wrong, but that is no surprise. Logic does dictate there is a reason. It is illogical to conclude there is no reason for the universe, especially since you have no evidence to support that viewpoint. As for people who (presume to) understand how the universe came to be... I'll bet you not a single one of them can tell you WHY it came to be.

That's got to be one of the most retarded arguments ever made on this board, and you have set the bar pretty high on that already.

Seriously. Your entire argument is "the universe must have a purpose because I say so."

There doesn't have to be a why. That's the bit that you struggle with so much and it betrays your limited intellect.

It's like asking "why did that baby have to die?" The answer of course is "why not?" The universe is totally indifferent. Even asking the question "Why does the universe exist" is us projecting our own psychology on the universe which has none.

You, sir, are fucking retarded. Until you can explain the "logic" that necessitates a reason for the universe's existence better than "cause I say so," you will remain retarded.

 

[Whomever]

I hope that if a supreme being did create the universe that we are not the most intelligent beings in it.
It would not seem to me to be a very supreme being if we are it's crowning achievement in the creation of life forms.

Ahh but the blissfully ignorant arrogance of the human species.

 

[ib1yysguy]

God was invented by and for the simple minded. My guess is there's a healthy plurality in this country who are simply intimidated into fibbing and proclaiming an allegiance to some religious tradition because to do otherwise could mean the loss of a job, opportunities, relationships, and even your life in some countries.

 

[Whomever]

God was invented by and for the simple minded. My guess is there's a healthy plurality in this country who are simply intimidated into fibbing and proclaiming an allegiance to some religious tradition because to do otherwise could mean the loss of a job, opportunities, relationships, and even your life in some countries.

Lets not forget the fear of the greatest unknown. Death, and the promise of everlasting life and being reunited with your dead loved ones if you are a good little lamb.

do not get me wrong now. Religion in some contexts can be a very positive and civilizing factor in the lives of barbaric humans that still kill each other over money, jealousy, power, fear, difference, etc.
But it has often been misused by those in power to use the believers for purposes outside of the religion.
And the promise of a payoff after death does cheapen this life, which is the only one we are certain to have.