The Offical Gun Thread

/MSG/

Uwaa OmO
I figured I'd create one, mainly so I and others can discuss guns. And to start things off, I figured I'd post some pictures of my collection. Not pictured are my FAL, AR15, or H&H. The first two I lent out to a buddy, and the third, well, it's worth a shit ton. I'm not putting that online.

Picture 1: From upper left to bottom right: Mossberg 183 (T), Maverick 88, Mossberg 500A, Mosin Nagant m91/30, Savage 110L 270, FS2000, W1200, Henery Golden Boy 22lr, Saiga 308, M1 Garand, PSL 54c, WASR-10, M39 sniper, SKS romanian.

Picture 2: Left to right: Cz-82, RIA 1911 Tactical, Hawes Western Marshal .45LC, Witness Pro-carry 10mm.
 
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i wonder if damo would de-mod me if i renamed this the "official faggot thread" and also if it would be worth it O_O
 
Eh, since this thread is about guns, we have some predictable responses.

I found this while transfering files from one computer to another, and I thought it was worth reposting.

I have enjoyed John Connor's writings in various gun magazines for years. Here is one of his better ones:


“Why do you carry a gun?”
by John Connor

If I had a nickel for every time I’ve been asked that question, I’d have, uh … as many guns as his firearm-festooned Editorial Immenseness, Roy-Boy. It’s been asked of me by all flavors of folks in all slices of society, with attitudes and expressions ranging from angry-arrogant to curtly-contemptuous, to brainless an’ befuddled. My answers to it have sorta formed three phases in my professional gun-carrying life. During that first and longest phase, I answered all of ’em sincerely and articulately, often following up with stacks of historic and legal documents. After many years, I concluded only a semi-significant sliver of people even heard what I was sayin’. The rest had already made up their muddled minds.

Finally, I just got sick of it, and moved on to Phase 2. If those asking seemed to have teensy open spaces in their minds, I gave ’em S & A: “Sincere & Articulate.” The more harshly-bleating sheep, however, often got exchanges like this:
“So,” queried Snidely Snotworth III, lookin’ down his un-busted but needed-bustin’ nose, “Why do you think you have to carry a gun?”
“Well,” bellowed the Brutish Neanderthal (that would be me): “Because you’re not QUALIFIED to carry one. You haven’t got the skills, the judgment, the sense of responsibility, or the courage for it.”

This answer often popped out after I’d just returned from some Heart-Of-Darkness where every living soul knew that the difference between slaves and free people is having the means and determination to defend their lives, property and liberties. That meant having guns and guts and God-given rights. Most of those people would quite literally die fighting for the freedoms so many Americans casually give away, and proudly bear social responsibilities those sheeple* won’t even recognize.
*Sheeple: Sheep-like people, many of whom deny the existence of wolves, and vote to pull the teeth of the sheepdogs who protect the flock.

The Voices
Then I matriculated to Phase 3, where I started having some fun with the Snidely Snotworth types. When they asked the Big Question, I’d go all hunchy-shouldered an’ secretive, then lean in close and mutter, “Because of the voices, ya know?” “The VOICES?” sniveled the Snidelies, suddenly scaredy-cattish. “Oh, yeah, the voices … They told me to be, you know, prepared for when the killer clowns come … ” I’d furtively goggle around. “The voices say the killer clowns are comin’ … They’re cannibals, some of ’em, and … ”
About that time the Snidelies would be skitterin’ away like mice on polished marble.

Yeah, I know, the “killer clowns” answer might not have been “helpful,” but it did just as much good as giving S&A answers to the sheeple, and it was a lot more fun for me.

I know you already know why we carry these cannons. But sometimes, just sometimes, we all need a little reminder. That includes me, and I’ve got one to share with you. One that got me where I live.

The Connor Clan has been nomadic, and we’ve lived in a number of places. In one of ’em, we shared a side yard and friendship with a young woman we’ll call Miss Maine, and her knee-high daughter, Little Lizzie. Miss Maine quickly bonded with the Memsaab Helena. Clearly, Helena’s Amazon-warrior spirit and skill with arms impressed Miss Maine mightily, and much of their time and talk revolved around that fierce self-confidence — and guns.
As for Little Lizzie, the munchkin almost duct-taped herself to the Mem’s leg. She followed Helena everywhere, but always, always, kept glancing back to check on her momma, as though she were the worried parent.
There was something guarded, something hurt and defensive about both of them, and that fearfulness extended to me for a while. They got over it, thank God. Then I sorta became a moving bunker for ’em, representing cover and protection. Finally, we learned the story.
Miss Maine had been attacked — brutally and viciously. You don’t wanta know the details. As with so many such crimes, it wasn’t really about sex. It was about hate and domination, cowardice and cruelty. And an even younger Little Lizzie had witnessed it. I like to think the Memsaab and I helped them to recover emotionally.
Then one day Lizzie came and snuggled into my shadow, visibly disturbed. That morning her kindergarten had put on “Frighten The Munchkins Day.” Some schools do a pretty good job of alerting children to predators — don’t go with strangers and that kinda thing — but others do more harm than good. All they do is terrify the tots and give ’em no operating options. Lizzie already had twin tears glistening, ready to fall when she grabbed a tiny fistful of my trouser-leg and asked, “Connor-Sir, will you a’ways be here? Wouldja be here … When the bad mens come?”
My knees cracked on the sidewalk as she slammed into my shoulder, shaking with sobs as the hot tears came, splashing my neck and searing into my soul. “ ’Cause I’m a-scared!” she choked, and clutched me tighter.
Oh, GOD! Who would not — who could not — fight without fear, suffer without sense of sacrifice, and kill or die deliberately, using the most effective means available — to protect life, liberty and a Little Lizzie? For God’s sake, who?
Those who would not are no better than the predators.

Maybe in Phase 4, when somebody pops The Big Question I’ll just smile and say, “For life, liberty and Little Lizzie.” You guys can fill in the details.



(the article originally appeared in the September / October 2005 issue of American Handgunner, Speak Out column)
 
I figured I'd create one, mainly so I and others can discuss guns. And to start things off, I figured I'd post some pictures of my collection. Not pictured are my FAL, AR15, or H&H. The first two I lent out to a buddy, and the third, well, it's worth a shit ton. I'm not putting that online.

Picture 1: From upper left to bottom right: Mossberg 183 (T), Maverick 88, Mossberg 500A, Mosin Nagant m91/30, Savage 110L 270, FS2000, W1200, Henery Golden Boy 22lr, Saiga 308, M1 Garand, PSL 54c, WASR-10, M39 sniper, SKS romanian.

Picture 2: Left to right: Cz-82, RIA 1911 Tactical, Hawes Western Marshal .45LC, Witness Pro-carry 10mm.
Looks like you have a custom stock on your Garand. Or at least custom finish. I take it you are not into collector military firearms? My dad inherited a genuine WWII issue Springfield Garand in super condition and all original parts. My Uncle managed to hang on to his as part of his "ETS package". Not uncommon from those days, but would probably be a class A felony today, even though he paid the going price for it as Garands were released by Uncle Sam in the thousands shortly after VJ day. All he did was pay in advance (plus slicked a few palms in the supply depot), received it in advance, and the slicked palms did the paperwork later.

Also, looks like you have the original scope on the PSL. Have you though about getting a center mount and better scope? Or is the PSL accuracy such that a center mounted scope won't do much? Never fired a PSL, so I don't know the weapon. I have fired the Draganov the PSL in designed after. Draganov is a damned fine weapon, <1 MOA in the right hands. But expensive as hell these days. How I long for the days when we could buy Soviet firearms practically direct without all the 922r compliancy bullshit.
 
Looks like you have a custom stock on your Garand. Or at least custom finish. I take it you are not into collector military firearms? My dad inherited a genuine WWII issue Springfield Garand in super condition and all original parts. My Uncle managed to hang on to his as part of his "ETS package". Not uncommon from those days, but would probably be a class A felony today, even though he paid the going price for it as Garands were released by Uncle Sam in the thousands shortly after VJ day. All he did was pay in advance (plus slicked a few palms in the supply depot), received it in advance, and the slicked palms did the paperwork later.
Actually I'm an avid military firearms collector. I'm just not picky. That Garand is mixed parts and has a custom finish and recoil pad. I'd have preferred a metal butt plate, but I'm not complaining. I collect my guns with the intention of shooting regularly, so why would I pay more do reduce somethings value? My M39 sniper however, is one of only about 500 made, much less imported.

Also, looks like you have the original scope on the PSL. Have you though about getting a center mount and better scope? Or is the PSL accuracy such that a center mounted scope won't do much? Never fired a PSL, so I don't know the weapon. I have fired the Draganov the PSL in designed after. Draganov is a damned fine weapon, <1 MOA in the right hands. But expensive as hell these days. How I long for the days when we could buy Soviet firearms practically direct without all the 922r compliancy bullshit.
No, I hadn't really thought about another scope. The PSO is a great scope, very rugged, if somewhat low powered (4x). As an aside, other than external looks and the same caliber, the PSL and the Dragunov have nothing in common. The PSL is basically an enlarged AK. But in terms of accuracy, both are around the same. I currently get around 1.5 MOA with surplus light ball ammo (it's LOVES Czeck silvertips), but haven't tried handloads yet. The reason being I only have heavy bullets (170gr and up) because my Mosins like them, and heavy bullets don't go well with a PSL.
 
1.5 MOA is not bad for an "enlarged AK." I know the Draganov is a completely different firearm, but it is pretty plain the PSL is made to be at least a visual copy. I was just wondering how close it comes to being a performing copy. Evidently not all that close. I mentioned the idea of a center-mount scope because it's more accurate - you don't have to adjust for L-R parallax when firing outside the zero range of the scope. But for low-accuracy rifles, the potential gain from centering the scope is lost in the rifle performance, so isn't worth the effort.
 
1.5 MOA is not bad for an "enlarged AK." I know the Draganov is a completely different firearm, but it is pretty plain the PSL is made to be at least a visual copy. I was just wondering how close it comes to being a performing copy. Evidently not all that close. I mentioned the idea of a center-mount scope because it's more accurate - you don't have to adjust for L-R parallax when firing outside the zero range of the scope. But for low-accuracy rifles, the potential gain from centering the scope is lost in the rifle performance, so isn't worth the effort.
1.5 with old surplus ammo is pretty good. And from the many Dragunov owners I've talked to (well, ok FEW owners), they say there isn't much difference accuracy wise. Some will do great, others poor. Neither are really meant to engage targets outside of 800 meters, and I'd be pretty comfortable with that range.

Now when you're talking scopes, you're out of my league. I mostly shoot iron sights, so I admittedly don't know much about them.
 
Actually I'm an avid military firearms collector. I'm just not picky.
Sorry I was not more clear in my post. By "collector military" I meant military firearms in original or near-original condition - the kinds that bring big bucks from certain types of collectors. As a shooter myself, I don't care much about things being original, just if they work they way they were designed.

OTOH, I have to admit I drooled big time when my Dad inherited his Garand, and was envious as hell of my own son when he got it from Dad's will instead of me. It's a full on museum quality piece of U.S.M.C. history.
 
Sorry I was not more clear in my post. By "collector military" I meant military firearms in original or near-original condition - the kinds that bring big bucks from certain types of collectors. As a shooter myself, I don't care much about things being original, just if they work they way they were designed.

OTOH, I have to admit I drooled big time when my Dad inherited his Garand, and was envious as hell of my own son when he got it from Dad's will instead of me. It's a full on museum quality piece of U.S.M.C. history.
If I can get an original for a good price, I'll pick it up. I'm currently 'waiting' for my grandfathers 1911 and 1903, but that won't be for a bit hopefully.
 
1.5 with old surplus ammo is pretty good. And from the many Dragunov owners I've talked to (well, ok FEW owners), they say there isn't much difference accuracy wise. Some will do great, others poor. Neither are really meant to engage targets outside of 800 meters, and I'd be pretty comfortable with that range.

Now when you're talking scopes, you're out of my league. I mostly shoot iron sights, so I admittedly don't know much about them.
The Draganov my buddy lets me shoot is accurate beyond my personal capabilities - and I am no slouch. Then again he doesn't use surplus ammo in it. I get about 0.8 MOA on average, 0.7 on a good day. My buddy, being a genuine USMC trained sniper, does a bit better, and takes the rifle to its performance limit, getting 0.6 consistently, 0.5 on a good day. He can get 0.3 MOA out of his .50, while I remain at about 0.7.

I do not know if he modified his drag or not, but it's a good possibility - trigger at the very least. He's all about tweeking a firearm to it's absolute maximum. Me, I just like shooting - my carbine is still my favorite plinker. Not all that accurate (but does OK for its operational range) but fun as hell.
 
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