The physics of God

Belief starts with an assumption, but if the assumption cannot be backed up with logic and facts, then it should be discarded. That's how the Scientific Method works. You start with a hypothesis, usually based on an observation, then you try to prove the hypothesis.
Now of course, nothing can be completely proven or disproven, but there are beliefs based on logic, and there are beliefs based on nothing but faith. If all you care about is faith, then you don't care about logic.

And really, most people live their everyday lives with logic. Blind faith is the exception, usually made for religion, the acceptable insanity.

I am very aware of how the scientific method works.

For most aspects of life, I attempt to make use of inductive reasoning to guide me. While there is a possibility that technologically advanced civilizations exist elsewhere in the universe, I see no credible evidence that aliens in spaceships are visiting earth -- and it would defy the laws of physics as we know it for there to be a reasonable expectation that spaceships from dozens or hundreds of light years away would be making routine trips to Earth.

However, I have enough respect for the great philosophers and theologians of human history to understand that epistemology and metaphysics are not something I ignore and dismiss out of hand, and I am aware also that they lie outside the bounds of the scientific method.
 
So, it takes a satellite hours to travel across the sky?

I've seen satellites before, they're quick, besides they tend to be dim.

This was as bright as venus.

So a bright light moving across the night sky must be aliens in a spaceship? Are you saying there are no other credible explanations?
 
I am totally agnostic about it, but some preeminent physicists raise the question on how weird it is that there is such an obseved symmetry between mathematics and the universe.

The Standard Model is our best account of the laws governing everything except gravitation. The general theory of relativity accounts for that. All of these equations have constants within them—that is, terms that have to be included in the equations to make the units come out right.

Physicist Robert Dicke pointed out in his article “Dirac’s Cosmology and Mach’s Principle” that we can arithmetically. combine these constants to give rise to dimensionless. numbers—that is, we can multiply and divide these constants in. combinations that make all the units cancel out. Numbers that. should have nothing to do with each other—things like the age. of the universe, the mass of the proton, and the gravitational. constant—seem to be intricately related when properly. multiplied and divided by each other.

That is strange.
It is eerie how mathematics applies so perfectly to the natural world. Mathematical concepts turn up in entirely unexpected connections.

The first point is that the enormous usefulness of mathematics in the natural sciences is something bordering on the mysterious and that there is no rational explanation for it.

- Eugene Wigner, preeminent American physicist, Nobel laureate
 
I am totally agnostic about it, but some preeminent physicists raise the question on how weird it is that there is such an obseved symmetry between mathematics and the universe.

Why is it weird? It would be weirder if the Universe was chaotic and completely incomprehensible....which is what people who believe in magic, prayer, intervention by God/gods believe. It's why, at least in the US, those people are often science deniers.
 
Why is it weird? It would be weirder if the Universe was chaotic and completely incomprehensible....which is what people who believe in magic, prayer, intervention by God/gods believe. It's why, at least in the US, those people are often science deniers.

Like I said I am agnostic about it. I do not know whether it is weird or not. Some preeminent physicists think it is weird. I do not think there is any underlying principle of reality that a well ordered universe is a requirement of objective reality. Its just an observation and assumption for us at our current state of knowlege
 
Like I said I am agnostic about it. I do not know whether it is weird or not. Some preeminent physicists think it is weird. I do not think there is any underlying principle of reality that a well ordered universe is a requirement of objective reality. Its just an observation and assumption for us at our current state of knowlege

That's putting the cart before the horse; reality isn't required to do or have anything; it's reality. Consider the "objective reality" of a flat Earth. The vast majority of human history that was their "reality, but we know the Earth was round (ok, an oblate spheroid). It's round now and it was round for all of human history regardless of what they believed it was. Reality, like God, is pure "truth", what it is, the known and the unknown. However, you want to phrase it, human perception may or may not accurately perceive it, but it really is what it is.

Getting back to "well-ordered"; it can be chaotic but all we know seems to indicate a perceivable understanding of the principles at work. IOW, natural laws of the Universe. For the atheists in the crowd, the fact it is knowable and predictable doesn't mean it was intelligently designed.
 
That's putting the cart before the horse; reality isn't required to do or have anything; it's reality. Consider the "objective reality" of a flat Earth. The vast majority of human history that was their "reality, but we know the Earth was round (ok, an oblate spheroid). It's round now and it was round for all of human history regardless of what they believed it was. Reality, like God, is pure "truth", what it is, the known and the unknown. However, you want to phrase it, human perception may or may not accurately perceive it, but it really is what it is.

Getting back to "well-ordered"; it can be chaotic but all we know seems to indicate a perceivable understanding of the principles at work. IOW, natural laws of the Universe. For the atheists in the crowd, the fact it is knowable and predictable doesn't mean it was intelligently designed.

I have no evidence to think that since the universe appears to be a mathematical system leads one to grant weight to ID

Its just that the preeminent physicist Eugene Winger maintains that it is truly amazing and the enormous usefulness of mathematics in the natural sciences borders on the mysterious and has no rational explanation. The symmetry based in mathematical universe leads us in directions we never would have expected. Mechanical laws for free falling bodies on earth lead us to predicting the motion of planets and stars with incredible accuracy. Maxwell's field equations for electromagnetism end up leading us to a description of visible light waves and radio waves.

I gather that Wigner is just pausing to reflect on how amazing and mysterious it is.
 
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I have no evidence to think that since the universe appears to be a mathematical system leads one to grant weight to ID

Its just that the preeminent physicist Eugene Winger maintains that it is truly amazing and the enormous usefulness of mathematics in the natural sciences borders on the mysterious and has no rational explanation. The symmetry based in mathematical universe leads us in directions we never would have expected. Mechanical laws for free falling bodies on earth lead us to predicting the motion of planets and stars with incredible accuracy. Maxwell's field equations for electromagnetism end up leading us to a description of visible light waves and radio waves.

I gather that Wigner is just pausing to reflect on how amazing and mysterious it is.

Me neither. OTOH, the fact it is even here with a definite beginning and a predictable end can only mean it came from somewhere. Maybe we're one of God's farts. Who knows?

As for math, they are simply our perceptions of the universe put into numbers. You probably know the story of the 5 blind men and the Elephant. Imagine if they measured the various parts of the elephant with their canes. They could calculate volume, maybe density, length, width, height, etc. It would be a mathematical perception even though the Elephant itself can't count past five.
 
Maybe we're one of God's farts. Who knows?

God is a Person [ergo, beauty, wealth, fame, strength, intelligence, renunciation] ---all of which rocks and gas don't possess.

You are, we are persons that have a chance in a Human body to seek out the original person.



You will have endless births to seek out that which you are NOW Conscious of.

TOP OF THE HARE KRISHNA TO YOU!
 
God is a Person [ergo, beauty, wealth, fame, strength, intelligence, renunciation] ---all of which rocks and gas don't possess.

You are, we are persons that have a chance in a Human body to seek out the original person.



You will have endless births to seek out that which you are NOW Conscious of.

TOP OF THE HARE KRISHNA TO YOU!

until one figures out timed apart as occupying space is why life is limited to reproductions present so far or not anymore isn't governed by intellect at all. intellect is induced energy within a brain functioning the body to navigate being alive as timed apart now.
 
until one figures out timed apart as occupying space is why life is limited to reproductions present so far or not anymore isn't governed by intellect at all. intellect is induced energy within a brain functioning the body to navigate being alive as timed apart now.

IF YOU WERE MY TAXI DRIVER, I'D COMMIT ASSAULT FOR CAUSING ME TO THINK OF LEAPING FROM THE CAR.
 
IF YOU WERE MY TAXI DRIVER, I'D COMMIT ASSAULT FOR CAUSING ME TO THINK OF LEAPING FROM THE CAR.

what gives you the security I would allow you to get away with it? Seems I am not the one prone to violence as much as you are. I just work actual life against people speculating living is more than timed apart reproductions eternally centered as biologically separated so far. Events, numbers ever changing, details never the same twice matches everything historically translated into playing semantics 24/7.
 
Every morning you rise to answer the call of nature. And we all know how powerless you are to ignore its commands.

Assume the position until you're let free to go.

You do understand the separation of nature about things timed apart and the natural order things are timed apart now, correct? Rhetorical question, since obviosly you are only taking one side of the slant reality is larger than all things timed apart now as reproductively here, as your vocabulary says so. Call of natural functions isn't your calling to pretend your words make you an exception to adapt or become extinct rule of displacement.

How and why you behave during your timed apart occupancy is directly proportioned to your time existing per rotation of the planet, phases of lunar reflection of sunlght, revolutions around the star your body never duplicates what it became so far since conceived, same time everyone else's is never the same again now.

I won't assume any position you recommend as it isn't a naturally occupying space now result, just your wishful thinking everyone else is willing to buy into your belief system of ignoring now is eternity.

See didn't harm a hair on your head and destroyed all the subjectivity of your proclamation life exceeds now and everyone's point of origin is outside the moment here. wrong for so many generations nobody knows when people gave up on understanding life in plain sight.
 
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Me neither. OTOH, the fact it is even here with a definite beginning and a predictable end can only mean it came from somewhere. Maybe we're one of God's farts. Who knows?

As for math, they are simply our perceptions of the universe put into numbers. You probably know the story of the 5 blind men and the Elephant. Imagine if they measured the various parts of the elephant with their canes. They could calculate volume, maybe density, length, width, height, etc. It would be a mathematical perception even though the Elephant itself can't count past five.

Nice work.
Here is a t shirt I used to see physics majors wear. Only true geeks would understand the context.

WO58xIw.jpg
 
God is a Person [ergo, beauty, wealth, fame, strength, intelligence, renunciation] ---all of which rocks and gas don't possess.

You are, we are persons that have a chance in a Human body to seek out the original person.

You will have endless births to seek out that which you are NOW Conscious of.

TOP OF THE HARE KRISHNA TO YOU!

Like I said, God's farts.

You do understand the separation of nature about things timed apart and the natural order things are timed apart now, correct? Rhetorical question, since obviosly you are only taking one side of the slant reality is larger than all things timed apart now as reproductively here, as your vocabulary says so. Call of natural functions isn't your calling to pretend your words make you an exception to adapt or become extinct rule of displacement....
Definitely God's farts.
 
Nice work.
Here is a t shirt I used to see physics majors wear. Only true geeks would understand the context.

WO58xIw.jpg

LOL. Awesome t-shirt.

Had to look it up: "Maxwell's equations" on the electromagnetic field of which "light" is one form.
 
Like I said, God's farts.

Definitely God's farts.

Dear Uncle D,

You inspired me to offer this translation that I herein customised especially for you Uncle D and your 'self-realisation'...


The Nature of the Fart is described in the famous Bhagavad-gita.
Here are some verses from the Bhagavad-gita that I have condensed to explicitly highlight what is described as the individual Fart’s characteristics:

The Fart continuously passes its time in a body; the fart’s essence is continuously unchanged during one’s lifetime passage from childhood to youth and then into old age, and similarly, the fart passes into another body at death.

For the material body there is only limited endurance, thus all temporal “transience” equates to “nonexistence,” or in other words, “Not Really Real”.
On the other hand,
For the Fartthere is no change, thus, the fart is eternal.

The fart pervades the entire body. The fart is indestructible.
No one is able to destroy that imperishable fart.

For the Fartthere is neither birth nor death at any time.
The Farthas not come into being,
The Fartdoes not come into being, and
The Fartwill not come into being.
The Fartis unborn, eternal, ever-existing and primeval.
The Fartdoes not die when the body dies.

The Fartis full of knowledge, or full always with consciousness. Therefore, consciousness is the symptom of the fart. Even if one does not find the fart within the heart, where the fart is situated, one can still understand the presence of the fart simply by the presence of consciousness.

The fart is indestructible, eternal, unborn and immutable.

Just like putting on new clothes, and giving up the old clothes, the fart, at the time of death, similarly accepts new material bodies, giving up the old and useless ones.

The fart can never be cut to pieces by any weapon, nor burned by fire, nor moistened by water, nor withered by the wind.

The Fart is individual, the fart is unbreakable and insoluble, the fart be neither burned nor dried. The fart is everlasting, present everywhere, unchangeable, immovable and eternally the same.

The Fart is invisible, inconceivable and immutable.

A person who has taken birth is sure to later confront death, so similarly, after death a person is sure to take birth again.

All created elements and forms and forces and creatures and events are un-manifest in their beginning, manifest during their interim state, and un-manifest again when annihilated.

Some look on the fart as amazing, some describe the fart as amazing, and some hear of the fart as amazing, while others, even after hearing about the fart, cannot understand the fart at all.

The fart who dwells in the body can never be slain. Therefore you need not grieve for the death of any living being.

The indestructible, transcendental the fart (the living entity) is known to be a spark of “Brahman”, and the fart’s eternal nature is called, “Self.”
All the variety of actions performed pursuant to maintenance of the material body [that is animated by the presence of the fart] is called karma, or fruitive activities.

Whatever state of being one remembers when the fart quits the body, that state the fart will attain without fail.

And whoever, at the end of the body’s life, while exiting the body, remembers Godhead alone, at once attains that destination. No doubt.

From the highest celestial realms throughout all of the temporal material cosmos down to the lowest stratums of life, all are places of “duality” where the misery and repeated birth and death along with temporary passages of pleasure take place.

Great farts, those yogis in devotion, never return to this temporary world, which is full of miseries, because they have attained the highest liberation. (Bg 2)

This is the ancient yoga system, formerly known to the great sages. It is serviceable and practical in every way.

When the fart is attracted by the material nature, this is called conditioned life.
But when that same consciousness of the fart is attached to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, one is situated in the consciousness of liberation.

When the fart is completely cleansed of the impurities of lust and greed produced from the false identification of the body as “I” and bodily possessions as “mine,” one’s mind becomes purified. In that pure state the yogi transcends the vagaries of material so-called happiness and distress.

At that time the fart can see himself to be transcendental to material existence and always self-effulgent, never fragmented, although very minute in size.

In that position of self-realization, the Fart sees everything in the right perspective; becoming indifferent to material existence, and the material influence acts less powerfully upon him.

Perfection in self-realization cannot be attained by any kind of yogi unless he engages in devotional service to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, for that is the only auspicious path.

Every learned man knows very well that attachment for the material is the greatest entanglement of the spirit fart. But that same attachment, when applied to the self-realized devotees, opens the door of liberation.

In the state of pure consciousness, one can see himself as a minute particle non-different from the Supreme Lord.

The individual fart, is eternally part and parcel of the Supreme Lord. Just as the sun’s rays are minute particles of the brilliant constitution of the sun, so a living entity is a minute particle of the Supreme Spirit.
As the sun alone illuminates all this universe, so does the living entity, one within the body, illuminate the entire body by consciousness.

The individual fart and the Supreme Lord are not separated as in material differentiation. The individual fart is a particle from the very beginning.

Spirit cannot be divided like a fragment of matter. The individual Fart, is eternally a part. As long as the Supreme Spirit exists, His part and parcel individual Farts also exists. As long as the sun exists, the molecules of the sun’s rays also exist.

The size of individual Fart particle is estimated in the Vedic literature of India to be one ten-thousandth the thickness of a strand of hair. It is therefore infinitesimal. The Supreme Spirit is infinite, but the “Living entity” Fart, or the individual fart, is infinitesimal, although it is not different in quality from the Supreme Spirit.

The individual Fart, by its constitutional position, is qualitatively the same as the Supreme Spirit, but is an infinitesimal part and parcel of the whole, the Supreme Spirit.

It is said that both the individual fart, and the Supreme Spirit live together within the heart. In the Vedic version it is stated, (hridi hyayam atma…) the fart and the Supreme fart both live within the heart. The individual fart is liberated when it comes out of the material heart or cleanses the heart to make it spiritualized, exactly as fire, arising from wood, burns the wood itself.

The individual living Farts, are parts and parcels of the Supreme self-effulgent Lord, and are also of the same quality.

The Supreme Lord diffuses His bodily effulgence which emanates from His transcendental body. (SB 3.25)

Who else but the gross materialists will neglect such transcendental thought and take to the nonpermanent names only, seeing the mass of people fallen in the river of suffering as the consequence of accruing the result of their own work? (SB 2.2.7)

“The Supreme Personality of Godhead becomes the Original Person to initiate the expansion of this cosmos. He is the perfectly pure goal that yogis strive to reach, the effulgent and infallible ultimate controller. Measuring the size of a thumb, the Supreme-fart is localized within the hearts of all living beings. By exercising proper intelligence, one can realize Him within the heart; those who learn this method will gain immortality.” Svetasvatara Upanisad (3.12–13)

A fart who, at the time of death, fixes his life air between the eyebrows and, by the strength of yoga, with an undeviating mind, engages himself in remembering the Supreme Lord in full devotion, will certainly attain to the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

The yogic situation is that of detachment from all sensual engagements. Closing all the doors of the senses and fixing the mind on the heart and the life air at the top of the head, A fart establishes himself in yoga.

After being situated in this yoga practice and vibrating the sacred syllable om, the supreme combination of letters, if a fart thinks of the Supreme Personality of Godhead and quits his body, he will certainly reach the spiritual planets.

After attaining Me, the great farts, who are yogis in devotion, never return to this temporary world, which is full of miseries, because they have attained the highest perfection.

From the highest planet in the material world down to the lowest, all are places of misery wherein repeated birth and death take place. But a fart who attains to My abode, O Arjuna, never takes birth again.
 
Dear Uncle D,

You inspired me to offer this translation that I herein customised especially for you Uncle D and your 'self-realisation'...


The Nature of the Fart is described in the famous Bhagavad-gita.
Here are some verses from the Bhagavad-gita that I have condensed to explicitly highlight what is described as the individual Fart’s characteristics:

The Fart continuously passes its time in a body; the fart’s essence is continuously unchanged during one’s lifetime passage from childhood to youth and then into old age, and similarly, the fart passes into another body at death.

For the material body there is only limited endurance, thus all temporal “transience” equates to “nonexistence,” or in other words, “Not Really Real”.
On the other hand,
For the Fartthere is no change, thus, the fart is eternal.

The fart pervades the entire body. The fart is indestructible.
No one is able to destroy that imperishable fart.

For the Fartthere is neither birth nor death at any time.
The Farthas not come into being,
The Fartdoes not come into being, and
The Fartwill not come into being.
The Fartis unborn, eternal, ever-existing and primeval.
The Fartdoes not die when the body dies.

The Fartis full of knowledge, or full always with consciousness. Therefore, consciousness is the symptom of the fart. Even if one does not find the fart within the heart, where the fart is situated, one can still understand the presence of the fart simply by the presence of consciousness.

The fart is indestructible, eternal, unborn and immutable.

Just like putting on new clothes, and giving up the old clothes, the fart, at the time of death, similarly accepts new material bodies, giving up the old and useless ones.

The fart can never be cut to pieces by any weapon, nor burned by fire, nor moistened by water, nor withered by the wind.

The Fart is individual, the fart is unbreakable and insoluble, the fart be neither burned nor dried. The fart is everlasting, present everywhere, unchangeable, immovable and eternally the same.

The Fart is invisible, inconceivable and immutable.

A person who has taken birth is sure to later confront death, so similarly, after death a person is sure to take birth again.

All created elements and forms and forces and creatures and events are un-manifest in their beginning, manifest during their interim state, and un-manifest again when annihilated.

Some look on the fart as amazing, some describe the fart as amazing, and some hear of the fart as amazing, while others, even after hearing about the fart, cannot understand the fart at all.

The fart who dwells in the body can never be slain. Therefore you need not grieve for the death of any living being.

The indestructible, transcendental the fart (the living entity) is known to be a spark of “Brahman”, and the fart’s eternal nature is called, “Self.”
All the variety of actions performed pursuant to maintenance of the material body [that is animated by the presence of the fart] is called karma, or fruitive activities.

Whatever state of being one remembers when the fart quits the body, that state the fart will attain without fail.

And whoever, at the end of the body’s life, while exiting the body, remembers Godhead alone, at once attains that destination. No doubt.

From the highest celestial realms throughout all of the temporal material cosmos down to the lowest stratums of life, all are places of “duality” where the misery and repeated birth and death along with temporary passages of pleasure take place.

Great farts, those yogis in devotion, never return to this temporary world, which is full of miseries, because they have attained the highest liberation. (Bg 2)

This is the ancient yoga system, formerly known to the great sages. It is serviceable and practical in every way.

When the fart is attracted by the material nature, this is called conditioned life.
But when that same consciousness of the fart is attached to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, one is situated in the consciousness of liberation.

When the fart is completely cleansed of the impurities of lust and greed produced from the false identification of the body as “I” and bodily possessions as “mine,” one’s mind becomes purified. In that pure state the yogi transcends the vagaries of material so-called happiness and distress.

At that time the fart can see himself to be transcendental to material existence and always self-effulgent, never fragmented, although very minute in size.

In that position of self-realization, the Fart sees everything in the right perspective; becoming indifferent to material existence, and the material influence acts less powerfully upon him.

Perfection in self-realization cannot be attained by any kind of yogi unless he engages in devotional service to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, for that is the only auspicious path.

Every learned man knows very well that attachment for the material is the greatest entanglement of the spirit fart. But that same attachment, when applied to the self-realized devotees, opens the door of liberation.

In the state of pure consciousness, one can see himself as a minute particle non-different from the Supreme Lord.

The individual fart, is eternally part and parcel of the Supreme Lord. Just as the sun’s rays are minute particles of the brilliant constitution of the sun, so a living entity is a minute particle of the Supreme Spirit.
As the sun alone illuminates all this universe, so does the living entity, one within the body, illuminate the entire body by consciousness.

The individual fart and the Supreme Lord are not separated as in material differentiation. The individual fart is a particle from the very beginning.

Spirit cannot be divided like a fragment of matter. The individual Fart, is eternally a part. As long as the Supreme Spirit exists, His part and parcel individual Farts also exists. As long as the sun exists, the molecules of the sun’s rays also exist.

The size of individual Fart particle is estimated in the Vedic literature of India to be one ten-thousandth the thickness of a strand of hair. It is therefore infinitesimal. The Supreme Spirit is infinite, but the “Living entity” Fart, or the individual fart, is infinitesimal, although it is not different in quality from the Supreme Spirit.

The individual Fart, by its constitutional position, is qualitatively the same as the Supreme Spirit, but is an infinitesimal part and parcel of the whole, the Supreme Spirit.

It is said that both the individual fart, and the Supreme Spirit live together within the heart. In the Vedic version it is stated, (hridi hyayam atma…) the fart and the Supreme fart both live within the heart. The individual fart is liberated when it comes out of the material heart or cleanses the heart to make it spiritualized, exactly as fire, arising from wood, burns the wood itself.

The individual living Farts, are parts and parcels of the Supreme self-effulgent Lord, and are also of the same quality.

The Supreme Lord diffuses His bodily effulgence which emanates from His transcendental body. (SB 3.25)

Who else but the gross materialists will neglect such transcendental thought and take to the nonpermanent names only, seeing the mass of people fallen in the river of suffering as the consequence of accruing the result of their own work? (SB 2.2.7)

“The Supreme Personality of Godhead becomes the Original Person to initiate the expansion of this cosmos. He is the perfectly pure goal that yogis strive to reach, the effulgent and infallible ultimate controller. Measuring the size of a thumb, the Supreme-fart is localized within the hearts of all living beings. By exercising proper intelligence, one can realize Him within the heart; those who learn this method will gain immortality.” Svetasvatara Upanisad (3.12–13)

A fart who, at the time of death, fixes his life air between the eyebrows and, by the strength of yoga, with an undeviating mind, engages himself in remembering the Supreme Lord in full devotion, will certainly attain to the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

The yogic situation is that of detachment from all sensual engagements. Closing all the doors of the senses and fixing the mind on the heart and the life air at the top of the head, A fart establishes himself in yoga.

After being situated in this yoga practice and vibrating the sacred syllable om, the supreme combination of letters, if a fart thinks of the Supreme Personality of Godhead and quits his body, he will certainly reach the spiritual planets.

After attaining Me, the great farts, who are yogis in devotion, never return to this temporary world, which is full of miseries, because they have attained the highest perfection.

From the highest planet in the material world down to the lowest, all are places of misery wherein repeated birth and death take place. But a fart who attains to My abode, O Arjuna, never takes birth again.

I appreciate your effort in making that.

“If you meet the Buddha, kill him.”– Zen Master Linji

"Go home, kill your parents." - Charles Manson
 
Like I said, God's farts.

Definitely God's farts.

stop playing metaphors of maybe and just use the simplicity of compounding actions and reactions between combinations of events workling simultaneously occupying space as timed apart cycles now. Universally to everything within this atmosphere. Snowflakes upto and including ancestral progression of lifetimes in this species.
 
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