The Polarizing Corrosively Hurtful Hate-Filled We/They Approach To Political Debate.

[ThatOwlWoman]

And so goes all good intentions. America is not a "Me", and never has been. The ideological divide should be shared by all, not the few who act as if they speak for all.

That sentiment is even on our currency. E pluribus unum.

 

[Nordberg]

I do not think it is really hatred. The discourse in America has dropped to far lower levels that we used to have. It is not just this board, but the president is a practitioner of base and low-level discourse. It is normal to converse with insults in America now. The Fox Gnus viewers are treated to conspiracies and enemies lists every day. The Dems do not have different ideas of how to procede in America, but they are wrong and are trying to destroy the nation. They cannot say why, because it is not true. But the rightys get very defensive and think we are trying to wreck all they hold dear.
Dems just believe the rest of Americans should get part of the wealth they create. We are not for creating a plutocracy..

 

[domer76]

United we stand.

Divided we fall.

Let us be united in the concept of mutual respect, and let us STAND! (We can still disagree on politics.)

"A house divided against itself cannot stand."

Our very revered Republican President Abraham Lincoln gave a speech of that title and theme at the 1858 RNC in Springfield IL, as a then candidate for Senate.

He lost.

The concept of a house divided being unable to stand was not Lincoln's idea. His friend urged him to share where it came from, but he declined. He chose to let the message sink in. If people didn't get the point of the message, the source didn't matter.

(It came from the Bible.)

Lincoln was wise to let the message percolate and mature in the populace. He was wise to let time work it's magic. Some things are worth waiting for. Great things can take a long time to build.

Later, it was said that the speech made him President.

He was referring to slavery. He posited that either all of the USA must adopt slavery, or all of the USA must reject it.

The whole nation wasn't ready for it.

But it was at the beginnings of a mighty process.

Because the political landscape never stays the same; is always changing.

Today, we have very strong polarization in the USA. Lots of hatred for fellow citizens. Lots of pain, damage, and corrosive propaganda. And some good views, too. On both sides.

And it is good that we have many views and points to consider, that we overlook no point in considering the direction of our country. Diversity of people, experiences, and ideas makes us great.

And we have good people on both sides as well as bad. Neither side is all good or all bad. That is far too simple a notion, and FAR too common.

WE are not all good, and THEY are not all bad. It's just not that easy. The world is more complex than that.

The thing which has been lost is love.

From wherever it is borrowed, the message is clear. Love is the only way. Love they neighbor. Love thy enemies.

We are right to hold differing views.

But that should not prevent us from appreciating others.

Hatred is a cop-out. Hatred and personal attacks are the cop-outs of those who cannot argue their position effectively. Hatred and disrespect here in these forums don't make any political points, nor do they strengthen them. Instead, they only serve to shut down a good discussion.

A passionate argument is moving. Making a good point in strong words can be stunning.

When a reply focuses on the person who made the argument rather than the argument itself, then it is a cop-out. It is like giving in, acknowledging that the argument is so convincing it cannot be refuted and the only way to answer it is to attack the poster instead.

Hate-filled posts do not make any points.

All that is being done is attacking the MESSENGER. Any comment about the MESSAGE is overshadowed by talking about the MESSENGER.

Hate-filled posts are like Debate Poison.

Turning things personal turns things away from the political discussion.

Good debate focuses on the subject, not the other. Good debate makes strong points, doesn't derail the discussion with hatred.

We can improve the quality of this board if we minimize and try to eliminate hate-filled posts. We can have more participation. People have come here and left after only a few posts because of the hatred. Look at the member list some time. It is filled with people who came, made only a few posts and left. Guess why they left.

Show some love and it will come back to you.

It's OK to disagree. Just say why. Avoid going personal and mean. Look a message over before posting it. Soften it. Take out the hate like taking out the garbage. It's a worthy chore.

We all learn by talking to others.

Here is the best guiding principle to adopt:

"I know I am not perfect, and thus my opinion may be flawed by something I overlooked or got wrong.

So I want to hear why others believe the things they do. If I find flaws in their opposing reasoning, and none are pointed out in mine, then I feel more confident in my own view. If viable flaws are pointed out in my reasoning, then I adjust for the new information and possibly modify my view. This makes me feel very justified in holding my views. It is a political opinion vetting process."

If you are feeling lost and stuck in your positions, frustrated by the situation, maybe it's time to allow yourself to learn more. The more we back off on the hatred, the better the Forum gets. We'll never eliminate it. There will always be hurting messed-up people venting their frustrations on others. Let it be. Learn to recognize it, let it be, rise above it. We can create a better, more vibrant platform here one post at a time. Don't take the bait. Learn to DEbate.

Let these words ring in your head the next time you are ready to post a message. Pause a moment to read over what you've written. It will probably be far more effective without the invective. Maybe take a moment to edit a bit. Make it about the subject, not the poster. Break out of the short-term endorphin rush of telling someone off and transcend to the higher level of intellectual posting and learning. We all have that capacity within us. Find it in yourself. And thank yourself.

Is it easy to do this? No. If it was easy it wouldn't be worth it. You have to force yourself at first. The reward comes later. Some things are worth waiting for. Some great things take while to build.

Help us build a better JPP.

ps: No thread ban here but I will still not reply to those on my IgList. (I never will - for reasons of serenity and time savings, as I prefer to respond to good debate posts only in my limited time visits.)

Nice thoughts. Now reality.

When people seek the truth rather than post lies, we're all better off for the effort. It gives us all a basis and a starting point to engage in discussion on the subject. Unfortunately, with the current political atmosphere, starting right at the top, lies have become the norm. Not just a few lies, but a constant and daily barrage. In that respect, many have become numb to the lies and willfully ignorant of the truth.

My advice to the "other side"? Educate yourself, do your homework, don't post out of ignorance and a more civil discourse can result.

I posted this long ago and it has been plagiarized by Legion, who claims it as his own. It bears repeating.

"I have little to no patience with liars or the willfully ignorant. Both are choices that cretinous and foolish people make. We are all ignorant of certain things, but to remain willfully so is inexcusable."

 

[domer76]

there's no proof he's racist. it all out of context bullshit and lies.

Hillary kill list

Vince Foster
James McDougal
Mary Mahoney
Don Adams
John Ashe
Robert Bates
Gandy Baugh
James Bunch
Eric Butera
Danny Casolaro
Berta Caceres
Suzanne Coleman
L.J. Davis
David Drye
Five Navy aviators (Clinton bodyguards/escorts)
Hershell Friday
Kathy Ferguson
Judi Gibbs
Staff Sgt. Brian Haney, Marine Sgt. Tim Sabel, Maj. William Barkley, Capt. Scott Reynolds
Michael Hastings
John Hillyer
Stanley Huggins
Kevin Ives & Don Henry
Gary Johnson
John Jones
Jordan Kettleson
Johnny Lawhorn, Jr.
Lt. General David McCloud
Christine Mirzayan
Gordon Matteson
Keith McKaskle
James Milam
Joe Montano
Neil Moody
Larry Nichols
Jerry Luther Parks
C. Victor Raiser II
Seth Conrad Rich
Jeff Rhodes
Dr. Ronald Rogers
Charles Ruff
Barry Seal
Bill Shelton
Victor Thorn
Jon Parnell Walker
Maynard Webb
Paul Wilcher
Ed Willey
Gareth Williams
John Augustus Wilson
Clinton bodyguards
Steve Willis
Robert Williams
Conway LeBleu
Todd McKeehan
Barbara Wise
Richard Winters

 

[domer76]

There is a special thread on this forum that is dedicated to archiving all of the evidence that proves Trump is a racist. No lefty on this forum has ever been able to post a shred of evidence that proves Trump a racist.

https://www.justplainpolitics.com/showthread.php?80126-Trump-is-not-a-racist

If you can post evidence on that thread that Trump is a racist, I will click "like" on every post that says Trump is a racist. The catch to the deal is that the evidence must be real, and not allegations, accusations, dismissed cases, gish gallop, or propaganda.

You had your ass kicked uncountable times on that thread. Refer to my post about the willfully ignorant. That's you, pal.

 

[Nordberg]

there's no proof he's racist. it all out of context bullshit and lies.

Proof been given often. You just built a right-wing wall that deflects all the information that you do not like. How you rightys can do that is amazing. But it explains why you have to be so defensive. I suspect you really know better, but to admit the guy you back is a racist, is admitting that you are too. So you guys flat out deny what is so obvious.

 

[Old Trapper]

There is a special thread on this forum that is dedicated to archiving all of the evidence that proves Trump is a racist. No lefty on this forum has ever been able to post a shred of evidence that proves Trump a racist.

https://www.justplainpolitics.com/showthread.php?80126-Trump-is-not-a-racist

If you can post evidence on that thread that Trump is a racist, I will click "like" on every post that says Trump is a racist. The catch to the deal is that the evidence must be real, and not allegations, accusations, dismissed cases, gish gallop, or propaganda.

Problem is you would never accept that evidence just as millions of others like you will not. So, perhaps you could just answer the question posed, and we can go from there:



But tell me if you will is there any other group, Russian, Irish, etc., that he has denigrated as he has the Black and Hispanic, communities?"


https://www.vox.com/2016/7/25/12270880/donald-trump-racist-racism-history

 

[Life is Golden]

I do not think it is really hatred. The discourse in America has dropped to far lower levels that we used to have. It is not just this board, but the president is a practitioner of base and low-level discourse. It is normal to converse with insults in America now. The Fox Gnus viewers are treated to conspiracies and enemies lists every day. The Dems do not have different ideas of how to procede in America, but they are wrong and are trying to destroy the nation. They cannot say why, because it is not true. But the rightys get very defensive and think we are trying to wreck all they hold dear.
Dems just believe the rest of Americans should get part of the wealth they create. We are not for creating a plutocracy..

You must have been in a coma during the Obama years.

The most divisive, hate-filled President in American history.

 

[Nordberg]

You must have been in a coma during the Obama years.

The most divisive, hate-filled President in American history.

Only in Fox Land. Obama was inclusive, which does piss of rightys, perhaps better-spelled whiteys. The Obama days were quite peaceful and the nasty rightys did not get sanction to broadcast their hate like Trump does. No Obama was not like Trump. Trump has pushed hate and racism. Obama had the nerve to be black.

 

[Evmetro]

Problem is you would never accept that evidence just as millions of others like you will not. So, perhaps you could just answer the question posed, and we can go from there:



But tell me if you will is there any other group, Russian, Irish, etc., that he has denigrated as he has the Black and Hispanic, communities?"


https://www.vox.com/2016/7/25/12270880/donald-trump-racist-racism-history

Thanks for the gish gallop link and the reference to russians, irish, and hispanics who are not even races. I take it then, that you will remain incapable of posting the alleged evidence that every lefty knows about but mysteriously can't post.

 

[Evmetro]

Proof been given often. You just built a right-wing wall that deflects all the information that you do not like. How you rightys can do that is amazing. But it explains why you have to be so defensive. I suspect you really know better, but to admit the guy you back is a racist, is admitting that you are too. So you guys flat out deny what is so obvious.

It is all very easy, no mystery. We can just simply ask lefties to post evidence, and of course evidence NEVER gets presented. Allegations, accusations, dismissed cases, gish gallop, and propaganda gets posted, but never actual evidence. Easy. Lefties will claim that evidence has already been posted, but there will always be some reason why they cannot copy and paste the actual evidence here. Easy.

 

[Evmetro]

Problem is you would never accept that evidence just as millions of others like you will not.

Lefties will ALWAYS have some excuse for not being able to copy n paste the evidence onto the thread. It has NEVER happened, lefties insist that they already have, but they cannot EVER copy n paste whatever evidence they claim to have already posted.

 

[Evmetro]

You had your ass kicked uncountable times on that thread. Refer to my post about the willfully ignorant. That's you, pal.

I don't mind responding to your posts once in awhile to prove I am not chickenshi enough to put you on ignore.

Your post is a very standard reply for a lefty. Naturally, whatever evidence you claim too have posted cannot be copy n pasted here, but it is surely out there somewhere.

Your post reminds me of an earlier thread today, where we were discussing pigeon chess.

 

[domer76]

I don't mind responding to your posts once in awhile to prove I am not chickenshi enough to put you on ignore.

Your post is a very standard reply for a lefty. Naturally, whatever evidence you claim too have posted cannot be copy n pasted here, but it is surely out there somewhere.

Your post reminds me of an earlier thread today, where we were discussing pigeon chess.

 

[Truck Fump / h1b]

Proof been given often. You just built a right-wing wall that deflects all the information that you do not like. How you rightys can do that is amazing. But it explains why you have to be so defensive. I suspect you really know better, but to admit the guy you back is a racist, is admitting that you are too. So you guys flat out deny what is so obvious.

post one actual piece of evidence. we'll wait.

 

[countryboy]

United we stand.

Divided we fall.

Let us be united in the concept of mutual respect, and let us STAND! (We can still disagree on politics.)

"A house divided against itself cannot stand."

Our very revered Republican President Abraham Lincoln gave a speech of that title and theme at the 1858 RNC in Springfield IL, as a then candidate for Senate.

He lost.

The concept of a house divided being unable to stand was not Lincoln's idea. His friend urged him to share where it came from, but he declined. He chose to let the message sink in. If people didn't get the point of the message, the source didn't matter.

(It came from the Bible.)

Lincoln was wise to let the message percolate and mature in the populace. He was wise to let time work it's magic. Some things are worth waiting for. Great things can take a long time to build.

Later, it was said that the speech made him President.

He was referring to slavery. He posited that either all of the USA must adopt slavery, or all of the USA must reject it.

The whole nation wasn't ready for it.

But it was at the beginnings of a mighty process.

Because the political landscape never stays the same; is always changing.

Today, we have very strong polarization in the USA. Lots of hatred for fellow citizens. Lots of pain, damage, and corrosive propaganda. And some good views, too. On both sides.

And it is good that we have many views and points to consider, that we overlook no point in considering the direction of our country. Diversity of people, experiences, and ideas makes us great.

And we have good people on both sides as well as bad. Neither side is all good or all bad. That is far too simple a notion, and FAR too common.

WE are not all good, and THEY are not all bad. It's just not that easy. The world is more complex than that.

The thing which has been lost is love.

From wherever it is borrowed, the message is clear. Love is the only way. Love they neighbor. Love thy enemies.

We are right to hold differing views.

But that should not prevent us from appreciating others.

Hatred is a cop-out. Hatred and personal attacks are the cop-outs of those who cannot argue their position effectively. Hatred and disrespect here in these forums don't make any political points, nor do they strengthen them. Instead, they only serve to shut down a good discussion.

A passionate argument is moving. Making a good point in strong words can be stunning.

When a reply focuses on the person who made the argument rather than the argument itself, then it is a cop-out. It is like giving in, acknowledging that the argument is so convincing it cannot be refuted and the only way to answer it is to attack the poster instead.

Hate-filled posts do not make any points.

All that is being done is attacking the MESSENGER. Any comment about the MESSAGE is overshadowed by talking about the MESSENGER.

Hate-filled posts are like Debate Poison.

Turning things personal turns things away from the political discussion.

Good debate focuses on the subject, not the other. Good debate makes strong points, doesn't derail the discussion with hatred.

We can improve the quality of this board if we minimize and try to eliminate hate-filled posts. We can have more participation. People have come here and left after only a few posts because of the hatred. Look at the member list some time. It is filled with people who came, made only a few posts and left. Guess why they left.

Show some love and it will come back to you.

It's OK to disagree. Just say why. Avoid going personal and mean. Look a message over before posting it. Soften it. Take out the hate like taking out the garbage. It's a worthy chore.

We all learn by talking to others.

Here is the best guiding principle to adopt:

"I know I am not perfect, and thus my opinion may be flawed by something I overlooked or got wrong.

So I want to hear why others believe the things they do. If I find flaws in their opposing reasoning, and none are pointed out in mine, then I feel more confident in my own view. If viable flaws are pointed out in my reasoning, then I adjust for the new information and possibly modify my view. This makes me feel very justified in holding my views. It is a political opinion vetting process."

If you are feeling lost and stuck in your positions, frustrated by the situation, maybe it's time to allow yourself to learn more. The more we back off on the hatred, the better the Forum gets. We'll never eliminate it. There will always be hurting messed-up people venting their frustrations on others. Let it be. Learn to recognize it, let it be, rise above it. We can create a better, more vibrant platform here one post at a time. Don't take the bait. Learn to DEbate.

Let these words ring in your head the next time you are ready to post a message. Pause a moment to read over what you've written. It will probably be far more effective without the invective. Maybe take a moment to edit a bit. Make it about the subject, not the poster. Break out of the short-term endorphin rush of telling someone off and transcend to the higher level of intellectual posting and learning. We all have that capacity within us. Find it in yourself. And thank yourself.

Is it easy to do this? No. If it was easy it wouldn't be worth it. You have to force yourself at first. The reward comes later. Some things are worth waiting for. Some great things take while to build.

Help us build a better JPP.

ps: No thread ban here but I will still not reply to those on my IgList. (I never will - for reasons of serenity and time savings, as I prefer to respond to good debate posts only in my limited time visits.)

Maybe you should practice what you preach.

 

[countryboy]

I hate lies

I hate racism

I hate Russian meddling in our elections


I hate people who cheat voters out of their rights


I hate politicians who take Russian bribes


I hate people who think its no sweat off their balls if children go hungry


Hate is part of the spectrum of Human emotions


its serves a purpose in mankind

I hate child molesters


I hate rapists



like any part of our spectrum of emotions it has helped keep mankind alive


hating people who DONT DESERVE HATE is a problem


NOT hating people who deserve all the hate in society for their evil is counter productive


I hate some people so much I would be willing to kill them

If I walked into a situation where someone was beating an old person


I might just kill that person to make them stop


in your eyes that may make me flawed

In my eyes that makes me a compassionate human being

What a bunch of BULLSHIT. You only "hate" those things in your political opponents. And even then, it's almost always a false perception. What a fraud you are.

 

[Old Trapper]

Thanks for the gish gallop link and the reference to russians, irish, and hispanics who are not even races. I take it then, that you will remain incapable of posting the alleged evidence that every lefty knows about but mysteriously can't post.

Well, the dumb fuck part of you certainly has come out as expected. Muslim is not a race, so when Trump discriminates against them your ignorant ass will say "that is not racism". Haitian is not a race. Mexican is not a race. So you can just ignore the reality of Trumps discrimination against them, right.

So, Caucasian is a race fuck nuts. Now, show where Trump has discriminated against any White group. Well, he has against the poor, but that is not a "race".

 

[evince]

Well, the dumb fuck part of you certainly has come out as expected. Muslim is not a race, so when Trump discriminates against them your ignorant ass will say "that is not racism". Haitian is not a race. Mexican is not a race. So you can just ignore the reality of Trumps discrimination against them, right.

So, Caucasian is a race fuck nuts. Now, show where Trump has discriminated against any White group. Well, he has against the poor, but that is not a "race".

white women

 

[evince]

There is a special thread on this forum that is dedicated to archiving all of the evidence that proves Trump is a racist. No lefty on this forum has ever been able to post a shred of evidence that proves Trump a racist.

https://www.justplainpolitics.com/showthread.php?80126-Trump-is-not-a-racist

If you can post evidence on that thread that Trump is a racist, I will click "like" on every post that says Trump is a racist. The catch to the deal is that the evidence must be real, and not allegations, accusations, dismissed cases, gish gallop, or propaganda.

because you racists see nothing as racism


just like child molesters see nothing as child molestation