The presidency is now a criminal conspiracy

C

Cypress

Well-known member
The presidency is now a criminal conspiracy

Special Comment by Keith Olbermann


It is a fact startling in its cynical simplicity and it requires cynical and simple words to be properly expressed: The presidency of George W. Bush has now devolved into a criminal conspiracy to cover the ass of George W. Bush.

All the petulancy, all the childish threats, all the blank-stare stupidity; all the invocations of World War III, all the sophistic questions about which terrorist attacks we wanted him not to stop, all the phony secrets; all the claims of executive privilege, all the stumbling tap-dancing of his nominees, all the verbal flatulence of his apologists...

All of it is now, after one revelation last week, transparently clear for what it is: the pathetic and desperate manipulation of the government, the refocusing of our entire nation, toward keeping this mock president and this unstable vice president and this departed wildly self-overrating attorney general, and the others, from potential prosecution for having approved or ordered the illegal torture of prisoners being held in the name of this country.....

watch it

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21644133/
 
And now fat-ass anti-American Rosie O. will get a show on MSNBC....fun watching a network degenerate even further into a far left propaganda machine .....
 
bravo said:
And now fat-ass anti-American Rosie O. will get a show on MSNBC....fun watching a network degenerate even further into a far left propaganda machine .....
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So what part was far left propaganda? Did Levin NOT submit himself to waterboarding? After undergoing it did he NOT call it torture. After having called it torture did he NOT write a report which substantiated his findings? After he wrote the report was it not covered up to protect the men that have ordered the acts done to people? Anyone that does not think waterboarding is torture have someone do it to you. I went through a SAS SERE school in 1990 in Germany while I was in the Army. During that training they subjected us all to some sort of "enhanced interrogation". I was tied to a board which was placed over a tub of water and was then submerged in the water to my shoulders and held there. I was then brought up and told to divulge the information that I had been told NOT to give my interrogators when I was captured. Then was done repeatedly for longer and longer periods until I was sure I would have to breathe. I told them what they wanted to know and would have made shit up to get them to stop. I honestly thought I was going to have to breathe in water the last time they submerged me. The whole purpose of the exercise was to show us that there was no amount of willpower that would keep us from divulging information if someone wanted it bad enough. The other lesson we learned from it was that to get them to stop we would have made up shit to get it to stop. Waterboarding is worse than anything I had to go through. If you don't think it is then here is what I think you should do. Go home and do it to your mom or your sister or your grandmother. Watch the terror in their eyes even after you have told them you won't let anything bad happen you just want to show that unamerican bastard on JPP that waterboarding isn't really torture. Then come back and put the video of your doing it on here and tell me grandma was fine afterward.
 
Actually if torture works then we should be trained to cut our losses. The mere threat of torture should be sufficient for any of us to spill our guts. We're going to do it anyway so why not get it over and done with and avoid the physical discomfort that eventually turns into screaming agony?
 
Socrtease said:
So what part was far left propaganda? Did Levin NOT submit himself to waterboarding? After undergoing it did he NOT call it torture. After having called it torture did he NOT write a report which substantiated his findings? After he wrote the report was it not covered up to protect the men that have ordered the acts done to people? Anyone that does not think waterboarding is torture have someone do it to you. I went through a SAS SERE school in 1990 in Germany while I was in the Army. During that training they subjected us all to some sort of "enhanced interrogation". I was tied to a board which was placed over a tub of water and was then submerged in the water to my shoulders and held there. I was then brought up and told to divulge the information that I had been told NOT to give my interrogators when I was captured. Then was done repeatedly for longer and longer periods until I was sure I would have to breathe. I told them what they wanted to know and would have made shit up to get them to stop. I honestly thought I was going to have to breathe in water the last time they submerged me. The whole purpose of the exercise was to show us that there was no amount of willpower that would keep us from divulging information if someone wanted it bad enough. The other lesson we learned from it was that to get them to stop we would have made up shit to get it to stop. Waterboarding is worse than anything I had to go through. If you don't think it is then here is what I think you should do. Go home and do it to your mom or your sister or your grandmother. Watch the terror in their eyes even after you have told them you won't let anything bad happen you just want to show that unamerican bastard on JPP that waterboarding isn't really torture. Then come back and put the video of your doing it on here and tell me grandma was fine afterward.
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We just call waterboarding "enhanced interogation" techniques, and then we don't have to worry about silly US and International law.
 
The Nazis also had "Enhanced Interogation" techniques. Civilized societies do not engage in Nazi methods.
 
PH2006100500898.jpg


These troops were court marshalled back in the 60's.

This is what I'm talking about. The brutalization of America. It's now acceptable to waterboard, whenever it wasn't previously.
 
Watermark said:
PH2006100500898.jpg


These troops were court marshalled back in the 60's.

This is what I'm talking about. The brutalization of America. It's now acceptable to waterboard, whenever it wasn't previously.
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That's a horrifying image.

But...it's not as bad as beheading. So, I guess we're supposed to excuse it.



sarcasm off.
 
Socrtease said:
So what part was far left propaganda? Did Levin NOT submit himself to waterboarding? After undergoing it did he NOT call it torture. After having called it torture did he NOT write a report which substantiated his findings? After he wrote the report was it not covered up to protect the men that have ordered the acts done to people? Anyone that does not think waterboarding is torture have someone do it to you. I went through a SAS SERE school in 1990 in Germany while I was in the Army. During that training they subjected us all to some sort of "enhanced interrogation". I was tied to a board which was placed over a tub of water and was then submerged in the water to my shoulders and held there. I was then brought up and told to divulge the information that I had been told NOT to give my interrogators when I was captured. Then was done repeatedly for longer and longer periods until I was sure I would have to breathe. I told them what they wanted to know and would have made shit up to get them to stop. I honestly thought I was going to have to breathe in water the last time they submerged me. The whole purpose of the exercise was to show us that there was no amount of willpower that would keep us from divulging information if someone wanted it bad enough. The other lesson we learned from it was that to get them to stop we would have made up shit to get it to stop. Waterboarding is worse than anything I had to go through. If you don't think it is then here is what I think you should do. Go home and do it to your mom or your sister or your grandmother. Watch the terror in their eyes even after you have told them you won't let anything bad happen you just want to show that unamerican bastard on JPP that waterboarding isn't really torture. Then come back and put the video of your doing it on here and tell me grandma was fine afterward.
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Wow Soc, what a great post.
 
Damocles said:
Rosie O. is like giving Ann Coulter her own show.
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So what? .. Get used to it.

This nation has just suffered through almost 8 years of the most mindless and cowardly news and information coverage in America since McCartyism .. that bordered on a capitulation to a bloodles coup. It was a total collapse of the Fourth Estate, which is only now trying to recover and regain not only credibility, but importance to the American people.

The good news is that this has been an incredible time of growth and stature for alternative, internet-based, and foreign media in America because a great many Americans did not buy the mindfuck touted by mainstream press.

It's about fucking time America turned off and away from that ignorant dribble coming out of right-wing media and the mouths of simpletons like Coulter, Hannity, Limbaugh and the rest of the fucking clowns who have been wrong as fuck about every goddamn thing they've said.

Although she's not my first choice, she was right about the war .. FAUX News and the rest of that bullshit was not.

And she's right as hell about 9/11.
 
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blackascoal said:
So what? .. Get used to it.

This nation has just suffered through almost 8 years of the most mindless and cowardly news and information coverage in America since McCartyism .. that bordered on a capitulation to a bloodles coup. It was a total collapse of the Fourth Estate, which is only now to to recover and regain not only credibility, but importance to the American people.

The good news is that this has been an incerdible time of growth and stature for alternative, internet-based, and foreign media in America because a great many Americans did not buy the mindfuck touted by mainstream press.

It's about fucking time America turned off and away from that ignorant dribble coming out of right-wing media and the mouths of simpletons like Coulter, Hannity, Limbaugh and the rest of the fucking clowns who have been wrong as fuck about every goddamn thing they've said.

Although she's not my first choice, she was right about the war .. FAUX News and the rest of that bullshit was not.

And she's right as hell about 9/11.
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So what?

Give me a break. One of the first things you learn in kindergarten is that two wrongs don't make a right.

Morally and politically bankrupting yourself because "They do it too" is no excuse. I am seriously disappointed in you.

And no, she is not right as hell about 9/11. Sheesh. Even Bill Clinton knows that one is serious dementia.
 
Damocles said:
So what?

Give me a break. One of the first things you learn in kindergarten is that two wrongs don't make a right.

Morally and politically bankrupting yourself because "They do it too" is no excuse. I am seriously disappointed in you.

And no, she is not right as hell about 9/11. Sheesh. Even Bill Clinton knows that one is serious dementia.
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Bill Clinton is a plutocrat. Not sure what "credibility" you were looking for by saying what Bill Clinton thinks.

Hopefully in kindergarten you also learned that although two wrongs make not make a right, there is a right way.

"They do it too" is not my argument, that's just your way out of an honest discussion. My argument is that other opinions and vews SHOULD be considered and have voice, ESPECIALLY after listening to right-wing idiots dominate the airwaves with lies lies and ignorance. Would you care to challenge that?

How about you arguing from that perspective, not what you learned in kindergarten.

So you think Rosie and millions of Americans are wrong about 9/11 .. OK .. but that doesn't give what you think anymore validity than what anyone else thinks .. particularly when based on evidence .. not cognitive dissonance.
 
blackascoal said:
Bill Clinton is a plutocrat. Not sure what "credibility" you were looking for by saying what Bill Clinton thinks.

Hopefully in kindergarten you also learned that although two wrongs make not make a right, there is a right way.

"They do it too" is not my argument, that's just your way out of an honest discussion. My argument is that other opinions and vews SHOULD be considered and have voice, ESPECIALLY after listening to right-wing idiots dominate the airwaves with lies lies and ignorance. Would you care to challenge that?

How about you arguing from that perspective, not what you learned in kindergarten.

So you think Rosie and millions of Americans are wrong about 9/11 .. OK .. but that doesn't give what you think anymore validity than what anyone else thinks .. particularly when based on evidence .. not cognitive dissonance.
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Ah. I can live with "the other side should be heard too".

And what I think is also based on evidence, of actual structural engineers who wrote a nice book about it. It's all good to pretend to know things that you don't and to "ask questions" that lead others to think the same way about something they know little about. But heck, when in doubt go to the experts was first grade... It may be a bit advanced for most Americans.
 
Damocles said:
Ah. I can live with "the other side should be heard too".

And what I think is also based on evidence, of actual structural engineers who wrote a nice book about it. It's all good to pretend to know things that you don't and to "ask questions" that lead others to think the same way about something they know little about. But heck, when in doubt go to the experts was first grade... It may be a bit advanced for most Americans.
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Ahh .. but there are plenty of experts, including structural engineers who have a different opinion .. including the Law of Falling Objects. I like experts and their opinions.

I also like common sense, and neither common sense or history are on the side of believing that steel-frame buildings can melt, or that 19 untrained cavemen can jump into the cockpits of heavy-aircratft and fly them FLAWLESSLY with manuvers that combat pilots couldn't do. Lots of combat pilots and all kinds of experts don't believe that bullshit either .. and a lot of them aren't liberals or democrats.

Feel free to believe that if you choose.

There isn't just a couple, or 10, or 50 things wrong with the 9/11 story, damn near everything about it is wrong and much of it impossible.

And it isn't just the overwhelming physical evidence.

Why shouldn't there be voice to people and experts who pose the obvious questions .. like why did the Bush Administration remove and destroy critical evidence before it could be examined.

Do you have that answer, or are you just doing what you're told?
 
blackascoal said:
Ahh .. but there are plenty of experts, including structural engineers who have a different opinion .. including the Law of Falling Objects. I like experts and their opinions.

I also like common sense, and neither common sense or history are on the side of believing that steel-frame buildings can melt, or that 19 untrained cavemen can jump into the cockpits of heavy-aircratft and fly them FLAWLESSLY with manuvers that combat pilots couldn't do. Lots of combat pilots and all kinds of experts don't believe that bullshit either .. and a lot of them aren't liberals or democrats.

Feel free to believe that if you choose.

There isn't just a couple, or 10, or 50 things wrong with the 9/11 story, damn near everything about it is wrong and much of it impossible.

And it isn't just the overwhelming physical evidence.

Why shouldn't there be voice to people and experts who pose the obvious questions .. like why did the Bush Administration remove and destroy critical evidence before it could be examined.

Do you have that answer, or are you just doing what you're told?
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I wish my pilot friend posted on the board. Most of what you said about those "cavemen" is simply wrong.
 
This thread has gone out in left field in a hurry. It started out as a thread about the criminal activity ordered and carried out by this administration. Waterboarding is torture. Guiliani is full of shit when he says he doesn't know if it is, but if it is what the media says it is, then it is. Bill Clinton could not have made that more convoluted if he tried. This administration assigned someone the task of writing a report on whether waterboarding was torture, he didn't write it in the abstract, he had it done to himself and he concluded that even though he knew he would not die and that the men doing it to him would ultimately protect him, he felt terrified by what they did to him and he determined that according our own definitions and treaties waterboarding was torture.

Now with all that information public, this administration is in cover-up mode. This is exactly what I was saying to Danold yesterday of the thread about burning flags and constitutions. Fire does NO damage to the spirit of freedom and liberty in this country when it consumes a flag or a constitution. What does damage liberty and freedom is when, in the name of security, we abandon those principles that men died to establish over 2 centuries ago. Edmund Burke was right, "All that is necessary for evil to succeed is that good men do nothing." Daniel Levin has done something in an attempt to keep his country from adopting evil methods in the name of our security. He was ignored and ultimately let go because he didn't shape his report to support the position of the administration. For this administration, truth is subjective, and if the objective truth does not jibe with their subjective truth, they do everything they can to cover it in dirt and hide it from the light of day.
 
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