The salvation experience has always puzzled me

[AProudLefty]

When I was "saved" at 9 years old, I experienced a total rapture. Total joy. Ecstasy.. The feeling of floating and you think you could fly away. You feel cleared and clean in your body. And so on.

So the question is: what was that? What was that that happened to me?

Is it psychological? Mass hysteria and delusion can be eliminated because it was pretty much one to one prayer, despite other deaf kids being involved in groups with other counselors.

Is it the music? That can be eliminated because it was a deaf camp. But it is unmistakable that music does have a range of influence on people, especially the easily swayed.

So that leaves at least two possibilities: it was a genuine experience or I was sprayed with some kind of chemicals.

Now on to the megachurches. James Randi have exposed the megachurches and the televangelists for the frauds they are.

He has discovered and exposed their multiple techniques for swaying the audience.

A few examples: Have attendants fill up a card explaining their situations, heavy music that can easily influence them, possibly combined with low frequency harmonics (see MKUltra), have few "helpers" who pretend to be a part of the audience and so on. That's a few off of the top of my head.

Now to the nexus of my question/point about the experience. As I have stated, a lot of them can be eliminated with me.

The reason why I thought about this is because I had a dream one night where I went with a friend to her favorite new church. We were sitting there like they normally would. Listening, singing, pastor hollering and so on.

Blah, blah, blah. Then all of sudden I was struck with the experience of being drugged up. I looked around and those people were giddy as hell. They would believe anything and would laugh at everything. I looked at my friend and she looked at me and laughed. The most happiest crowd ever!

I was like whoa! What the hell was that?

So it got me thinking. Hmm maybe they use some kind of chemicals. Not unheard of in the covert projects, especially the CIA and their mind control projects.

It might sound far fetched, but is it?

That's really brilliant way to control the masses and make billions out of it. Keep them in power.

 

[T. A. Gardner]

I remember James "The Amazing" Randi. I actually got to see him perform "psychic surgery" live. He was in Arizona as an expert witness in a case involving a Mexican man who was doing that in Phoenix. The state charged him with the deaths of several of his "patients" and for practicing medicine without a license. His defense was he was performing religious miracles.

Sitting say ten feet from Randi who was doing his thing on a member of the small audience, it sure looked real, but it was all a magic trick. I thought it was funny when he tried to spray those closest with 'blood.' It didn't quite reach them, however.

 

[NiftyNiblick]

Don't obsess over salvation.

If you were born on this pigshit planet, it's already too late.

 

[Cypress]

When I was "saved" at 9 years old, I experienced a total rapture. Total joy. Ecstasy.. The feeling of floating and you think you could fly away. You feel cleared and clean in your body. And so on.

So the question is: what was that? What was that that happened to me?.

Sounds like a neurochemical response to me.

But spiritual liberation or salvation is undoubtedly real, as far as I'm concerned. In the arc of human history, millions of Buddhists, Daoists, Christians, Hindus, Jews have experienced a freedom from illusion, from fear, from desire, experienced a vision of moral truth and transcendence.

Even in the Gulag, Solzhenitsyn experienced a type of spiritual liberation. Boethius freed himself from illusion and percieved a higher truth even as he was chained in a dungeon. I don't think that type of transcendence is just a neurochemical response.

 

[AProudLefty]

Sounds like a neurochemical response to me.

But spiritual liberation or salvation is undoubtedly real, as far as I'm concerned. In the arc of human history, millions of Buddhists, Daoists, Christians, Hindus, Jews have experienced a freedom from illusion, from fear, from desire, experienced a vision of moral truth and transcendence.

Even in the Gulag, Solzhenitsyn experienced a type of spiritual liberation. Boethius freed himself from illusion and percieved a higher truth even as he was chained in a dungeon. I don't think that type of transcendence is just a neurochemical response.

I have never experienced that at any point in my life except that one.

 

[Kamala Trump]

When I was "saved" at 9 years old, I experienced a total rapture. Total joy. Ecstasy.. The feeling of floating and you think you could fly away. You feel cleared and clean in your body. And so on.

So the question is: what was that? What was that that happened to me?

Is it psychological? Mass hysteria and delusion can be eliminated because it was pretty much one to one prayer, despite other deaf kids being involved in groups with other counselors.

Is it the music? That can be eliminated because it was a deaf camp. But it is unmistakable that music does have a range of influence on people, especially the easily swayed.

So that leaves at least two possibilities: it was a genuine experience or I was sprayed with some kind of chemicals.

Now on to the megachurches. James Randi have exposed the megachurches and the televangelists for the frauds they are.

He has discovered and exposed their multiple techniques for swaying the audience.

A few examples: Have attendants fill up a card explaining their situations, heavy music that can easily influence them, possibly combined with low frequency harmonics (see MKUltra), have few "helpers" who pretend to be a part of the audience and so on. That's a few off of the top of my head.

Now to the nexus of my question/point about the experience. As I have stated, a lot of them can be eliminated with me.

The reason why I thought about this is because I had a dream one night where I went with a friend to her favorite new church. We were sitting there like they normally would. Listening, singing, pastor hollering and so on.

Blah, blah, blah. Then all of sudden I was struck with the experience of being drugged up. I looked around and those people were giddy as hell. They would believe anything and would laugh at everything. I looked at my friend and she looked at me and laughed. The most happiest crowd ever!

I was like whoa! What the hell was that?

So it got me thinking. Hmm maybe they use some kind of chemicals. Not unheard of in the covert projects, especially the CIA and their mind control projects.

It might sound far fetched, but is it?

That's really brilliant way to control the masses and make billions out of it. Keep them in power.

god is real.

i've had too many experiences to deny it.

 

[Tinkerpeach]

This often happens to people who just become saved and it’s completely psychological.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

When I was "saved" at 9 years old, I experienced a total rapture. Total joy. Ecstasy.. The feeling of floating and you think you could fly away. You feel cleared and clean in your body. And so on.

So the question is: what was that? What was that that happened to me?

Is it psychological? Mass hysteria and delusion can be eliminated because it was pretty much one to one prayer, despite other deaf kids being involved in groups with other counselors.

Is it the music? That can be eliminated because it was a deaf camp. But it is unmistakable that music does have a range of influence on people, especially the easily swayed.

So that leaves at least two possibilities: it was a genuine experience or I was sprayed with some kind of chemicals.

Now on to the megachurches. James Randi have exposed the megachurches and the televangelists for the frauds they are.

He has discovered and exposed their multiple techniques for swaying the audience.

A few examples: Have attendants fill up a card explaining their situations, heavy music that can easily influence them, possibly combined with low frequency harmonics (see MKUltra), have few "helpers" who pretend to be a part of the audience and so on. That's a few off of the top of my head.

Now to the nexus of my question/point about the experience. As I have stated, a lot of them can be eliminated with me.

The reason why I thought about this is because I had a dream one night where I went with a friend to her favorite new church. We were sitting there like they normally would. Listening, singing, pastor hollering and so on.

Blah, blah, blah. Then all of sudden I was struck with the experience of being drugged up. I looked around and those people were giddy as hell. They would believe anything and would laugh at everything. I looked at my friend and she looked at me and laughed. The most happiest crowd ever!

I was like whoa! What the hell was that?

So it got me thinking. Hmm maybe they use some kind of chemicals. Not unheard of in the covert projects, especially the CIA and their mind control projects.

It might sound far fetched, but is it?

That's really brilliant way to control the masses and make billions out of it. Keep them in power.

Sorry I missed this thread when you first posted it. Caveat: I'm responding to your OP before reading the rest of the posts.

Have you ever had that rapturous experience since you were a kid? Was the experience in the church with your friend the same?

I don't know how easy it would be to procure, but nitrous oxide has a similar effect on many people, particularly children.

 

[AProudLefty]

Sorry I missed this thread when you first posted it. Caveat: I'm responding to your OP before reading the rest of the posts.

Have you ever had that rapturous experience since you were a kid? Was the experience in the church with your friend the same?

I don't know how easy it would be to procure, but nitrous oxide has a similar effect on many people, particularly children.

I never felt that way again except possibly when getting excited about something (except it wasn't the same thing). It was an introduction of something into my body. I attributed it to Jesus entering my heart. I felt like my body was being cleansed and a overwhelming peace permeated my whole body. Me and my friend went outside all excited and discussing it. I can't say if they had the same experience but they did share the same.

If they did do something, then it's truly evil.

How long does nitrous oxide have an effect on children?

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

I never felt that way again except possibly when getting excited about something (except it wasn't the same thing). It was an introduction of something into my body. I attributed it to Jesus entering my heart. I felt like my body was being cleansed and a overwhelming peace permeated my whole body. Me and my friend went outside all excited and discussing it. I can't say if they had the same experience but they did share the same.

If they did do something, then it's truly evil.

How long does nitrous oxide have an effect on children?

Depends on dose and body mass and age, but not too long. When given as sedation it's mixed with O2 so just enough is given to cause relaxation. Some ppl though do have odd hallucinations and sensations. There have been cases where dentists were accused of rapes that never happened, by adults given N2O.

Did your friend experience some sort of excitement or odd sensations too? Did anyone else you know feel the same? Perhaps you had some neural stimulation -- deep bass, drums -- that your brain interpreted a certain way due to your lack of hearing. I have fascinating visual problems (from AMD) that cause my brain to interpret things in my peripheral visual field that are not possibly real. It's kind of cool, in a depressing-Imma-gonna-be-blind-should-I-live-so-long way.

I'm NOT saying you were drugged at all. I don't know how big the room was or how many ppl were present but it would be cost prohibitive even then to pump a church full of laughing gas.

Maybe you did have some sort of spiritual experience. When you think about it, does it still give you joy?

 

[AProudLefty]

Depends on dose and body mass and age, but not too long. When given as sedation it's mixed with O2 so just enough is given to cause relaxation. Some ppl though do have odd hallucinations and sensations. There have been cases where dentists were accused of rapes that never happened, by adults given N2O.

Did your friend experience some sort of excitement or odd sensations too? Did anyone else you know feel the same? Perhaps you had some neural stimulation -- deep bass, drums -- that your brain interpreted a certain way due to your lack of hearing. I have fascinating visual problems (from AMD) that cause my brain to interpret things in my peripheral visual field that are not possibly real. It's kind of cool, in a depressing-Imma-gonna-be-blind-should-I-live-so-long way.

I'm NOT saying you were drugged at all. I don't know how big the room was or how many ppl were present but it would be cost prohibitive even then to pump a church full of laughing gas.

Maybe you did have some sort of spiritual experience. When you think about it, does it still give you joy?

Well then it must not have been N20 because it wouldn't last that long. I've met some who have experienced the same but that's rare. Usually when I ask people about it, they would say they have not had that experience while being saved.

As to the music, I would have noticed since I can feel deep vibrations and also I would have noticed it's effect on hearing people at that time.

What is AMD?

It was a big church. 100s of deaf kids go to that Christian camp every year. We were required to go to church many times a day... ugh!

And yes it does give me some kind of joy oddly. I can still feel like. Like a clean feeling.

 

[Lightbringer]

When I was "saved" at 9 years old, I experienced a total rapture. Total joy. Ecstasy.. The feeling of floating and you think you could fly away. You feel cleared and clean in your body. And so on.

So the question is: what was that? What was that that happened to me?

Is it psychological? Mass hysteria and delusion can be eliminated because it was pretty much one to one prayer, despite other deaf kids being involved in groups with other counselors.

Is it the music? That can be eliminated because it was a deaf camp. But it is unmistakable that music does have a range of influence on people, especially the easily swayed.

So that leaves at least two possibilities: it was a genuine experience or I was sprayed with some kind of chemicals.

Now on to the megachurches. James Randi have exposed the megachurches and the televangelists for the frauds they are.

He has discovered and exposed their multiple techniques for swaying the audience.

A few examples: Have attendants fill up a card explaining their situations, heavy music that can easily influence them, possibly combined with low frequency harmonics (see MKUltra), have few "helpers" who pretend to be a part of the audience and so on. That's a few off of the top of my head.

Now to the nexus of my question/point about the experience. As I have stated, a lot of them can be eliminated with me.

The reason why I thought about this is because I had a dream one night where I went with a friend to her favorite new church. We were sitting there like they normally would. Listening, singing, pastor hollering and so on.

Blah, blah, blah. Then all of sudden I was struck with the experience of being drugged up. I looked around and those people were giddy as hell. They would believe anything and would laugh at everything. I looked at my friend and she looked at me and laughed. The most happiest crowd ever!

I was like whoa! What the hell was that?

So it got me thinking. Hmm maybe they use some kind of chemicals. Not unheard of in the covert projects, especially the CIA and their mind control projects.

It might sound far fetched, but is it?

That's really brilliant way to control the masses and make billions out of it. Keep them in power.

Drugs.

 

[Ross Dolan]

Sorry I missed this thread when you first posted it. Caveat: I'm responding to your OP before reading the rest of the posts.

Have you ever had that rapturous experience since you were a kid? Was the experience in the church with your friend the same?

I don't know how easy it would be to procure, but nitrous oxide has a similar effect on many people, particularly children.

So does pot.

Pot smoke has a smell that would have been noticed. But if goodies were served...like brownies, it might have been pot.

Another thing about pot highs...they are shared with those who are not smoking. The euphoria highs are "contagious."

When I read the OP...pot was my first thought.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

So does pot.

Pot smoke has a smell that would have been noticed. But if goodies were served...like brownies, it might have been pot.

Another thing about pot highs...they are shared with those who are not smoking. The euphoria highs are "contagious."

When I read the OP...pot was my first thought.

That's a plausible explanation too. Also LSD. Some while ago there was a discussion here about acid, and some members related their experiences with it. Some of the descriptions sound a lot like what Lefty posted... including sharing the same visual hallucinations.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

Well then it must not have been N20 because it wouldn't last that long. I've met some who have experienced the same but that's rare. Usually when I ask people about it, they would say they have not had that experience while being saved.

As to the music, I would have noticed since I can feel deep vibrations and also I would have noticed it's effect on hearing people at that time.

What is AMD?

It was a big church. 100s of deaf kids go to that Christian camp every year. We were required to go to church many times a day... ugh!

And yes it does give me some kind of joy oddly. I can still feel like. Like a clean feeling.

Then IMO you had a positive experience that has stayed with you your whole life. Do you consider yourself a Christian at this point?

AMD = age-related macular degeneration. It runs in our family. My sister (3 years younger than me) has it pretty badly; she has to get injections into her eyeballs. She has trouble reading and can only drive in areas where she knows the roads because she has trouble with signs. I'm not sure how she manages to pass the driving test. Mine isn't really noticeable except for those odd visual anomalies.

 

[NiftyNiblick]

I have never experienced anything approaching rapture or any other paranormal or supernatural experience in my life.

On the one hand, it's not my place to call anybody a liar.
I have no grounds for that.

On the other hand, it's pretty much impossible to believe that such experiences actually occur to anybody.
If you can't imagine it, it's hard to believe,

 

[leaningright]

I have never experienced anything approaching rapture or any other paranormal or supernatural experience in my life.

On the one hand, it's not my place to call anybody a liar.
I have no grounds for that.

On the other hand, it's pretty much impossible to believe that such experiences actually occur to anybody.
If you can't imagine it, it's hard to believe,

Me either.

 

[Mason Michaels]

When I was "saved" at 9 years old, I experienced a total rapture. Total joy. Ecstasy.. The feeling of floating and you think you could fly away. You feel cleared and clean in your body. And so on.

So the question is: what was that? What was that that happened to me?

Is it psychological? Mass hysteria and delusion can be eliminated because it was pretty much one to one prayer, despite other deaf kids being involved in groups with other counselors.

Is it the music? That can be eliminated because it was a deaf camp. But it is unmistakable that music does have a range of influence on people, especially the easily swayed.

So that leaves at least two possibilities: it was a genuine experience or I was sprayed with some kind of chemicals.

Now on to the megachurches. James Randi have exposed the megachurches and the televangelists for the frauds they are.

He has discovered and exposed their multiple techniques for swaying the audience.

A few examples: Have attendants fill up a card explaining their situations, heavy music that can easily influence them, possibly combined with low frequency harmonics (see MKUltra), have few "helpers" who pretend to be a part of the audience and so on. That's a few off of the top of my head.

Now to the nexus of my question/point about the experience. As I have stated, a lot of them can be eliminated with me.

The reason why I thought about this is because I had a dream one night where I went with a friend to her favorite new church. We were sitting there like they normally would. Listening, singing, pastor hollering and so on.

Blah, blah, blah. Then all of sudden I was struck with the experience of being drugged up. I looked around and those people were giddy as hell. They would believe anything and would laugh at everything. I looked at my friend and she looked at me and laughed. The most happiest crowd ever!

I was like whoa! What the hell was that?

So it got me thinking. Hmm maybe they use some kind of chemicals. Not unheard of in the covert projects, especially the CIA and their mind control projects.

It might sound far fetched, but is it?

That's really brilliant way to control the masses and make billions out of it. Keep them in power.

AProudLefty
What you experienced was your sins leaving your flesh,and the Holy Spirit come in.
But that sets in motion the daily battle between flesh and Spirit. " The Spirit is willing but the flesh is weak".

 

[Mason Michaels]

Sounds like a neurochemical response to me.

But spiritual liberation or salvation is undoubtedly real, as far as I'm concerned. In the arc of human history, millions of Buddhists, Daoists, Christians, Hindus, Jews have experienced a freedom from illusion, from fear, from desire, experienced a vision of moral truth and transcendence.

Even in the Gulag, Solzhenitsyn experienced a type of spiritual liberation. Boethius freed himself from illusion and percieved a higher truth even as he was chained in a dungeon. I don't think that type of transcendence is just a neurochemical response.

Until you experience it, you'll never know,but try to explain it to yourself logically.
Hint there's nothing logical about Faith.

 

[Mason Michaels]

I have never experienced that at any point in my life except that one.

The seed was planted it's up to you to make it grow!