The silent revolution or should I say evolution?

i like how the liberals in the 08' primaries were so smug how they are "big tent" and they have so many diverse views and thus it's hard for them to coalesce. But when it's conservatives that have many factions it's somehow not a virtue.
Yup, your right. That's why I roll my eyes when I hear these simple minded stereotypes about both Parties. They are both major coalitions of often disparate members.
 
I guess it comes from so many years of them speaking with one voice and of one mind, it is hard to get use to the idea that they have different opinions. We knew it all along, they were the ones that promoted the united front and "mavericks" were frowned upon.
I wouldn't confuse party discipline with varied interests.
 
So the solution is what? totally shut us out?
Nope but the majority just simply have to remember that the far rights superanuated 18th century european style aristocracy isn't really relevent in the 21st century society and that they can't govern competently as was aptly demonstrated by Bushco.
 
So the solution is what? totally shut us out?

Your positions cant stand on their own? If you need to cowtow to a radical minority, who you fundamentaly disagree with, in order to get your main ideas enacted.... you are attemting to circumvent Democracy.
 
ROTFLMAO.......I wouldn't hold my breath if I was you. When have Libertarians shown they can do anything but talk big talk on internet blogs?

As long as they cowtow to the religous right, they compromise their very principals to the extent that they have ruined the message. The true libertarian is Pro-Choice on as many issues as possable.
 
After the RE-election of President Obama, there was a lot of discussion of the civil war that was erupting in the Republican party. There were a few flash points, like between Palin and Rove, and Foxnews v. Palin and a few others.... And now it seems to have quited down and the lines have been drawn.... Trench warfare has begun and it will be slow and quiet until the the 14' elections.

Here is what I see....

There is a move by the Establishment and the Libertarians to oust the Social Conservatives. The future of the Republican party lies with Rand Paul's Goldwateresque style of libertarianism. Hands off regarding Gay Marriage, and Mariajuana will being almost radically fiscally conservative.

My take on this is that it will be very good for America, the social conservatives including the religous right have been using government power to hold the freedom of individuals hostage for far too long. We have an oppertunity to have both major parties to agree on social issues and take a gigant step forward. If the civil war in the Republican party ends with a libertarian victory... I will declare victory for AMERICA. I simply HOPE that they become true honest LIBERTARIANS, not the libertarian light presented by Rand Paul, but any step toward individual freedom is a step in the right direction.

Will the Republican Party become the Libertarian Party in everything but name?

one of the reasons that i left the repugs was when they gave up on personal freedoms for social conservatism

still i am no libertarian, i am a social progressive and a fiscal conservative

i cannot say that i endorse either major party and am considering voting third party next election
 
Chavez was Communist through and through. And any supporter of his is Communist as well. And yes, the USSR was decidedly Communist, contrary to what your historically atrophied mind says.

the ussr was only communist in name, it was a totalitarian government regardless of what it called itself
 
ROTFLMAO.......I wouldn't hold my breath if I was you. When have Libertarians shown they can do anything but talk big talk on internet blogs?

It's a mistake to think that what you have experienced in the past is what will always be. Things change and they are changing more rapidly than ever.

The influence of libertarians has grown considerably. Libertarians were on the right side of and out in front of Democrats on Iraq, gay marriage and marijuana. There has been a sea change in views on those issues. While Democrats were afraid to take the bold stands due to electoral costs, libertarians provided the vanguard.

Your thesis is pretty much bullshit. "Talking big on internet blogs" is what has created the change in opinions and the environment where policy change is possible.
 
It's a mistake to think that what you have experienced in the past is what will always be. Things change and they are changing more rapidly than ever.

The influence of libertarians has grown considerably. Libertarians were on the right side of and out in front of Democrats on Iraq, gay marriage and marijuana. There has been a sea change in views on those issues. While Democrats were afraid to take the bold stands due to electoral costs, libertarians provided the vanguard.

Your thesis is pretty much bullshit. "Talking big on internet blogs" is what has created the change in opinions and the environment where policy change is possible.

I am agree with some of their positions, but just like with Republicans and Democrats, I can not call myself a Libertarian.
 
As long as they cowtow to the religous right, they compromise their very principals to the extent that they have ruined the message. The true libertarian is Pro-Choice on as many issues as possable.
You miss my point. It doesn't matter what Libertarians believe in until they organize themselves and actually accomplish something.
 
one of the reasons that i left the repugs was when they gave up on personal freedoms for social conservatism

still i am no libertarian, i am a social progressive and a fiscal conservative

i cannot say that i endorse either major party and am considering voting third party next election
Don't. I went that route....it was a waste of time and my vote. The fact is we are a two major party system and you have to determine which coalition best suites your views and values. I was a Rockefeller Republican for many years. I was deeply suspect of the Dems who, in the late 70's were a far left party dominated by a vocal out of touch minority. My values placed me at the right of center and the Republican party, which was more moderate at the time, better reflected my values. Thirty years later and the pendulum has swung in the opposite direction. The Republican party is dominated by an out of touch minority and the Democrats are the centrist party and better reflect my views and values. So considering Republicans have made little or no effort to move towards the center and have disregarded the views of centrist and believed that our future depends on doubling down on concervatism, I switched Parties (though the immoral invasion of Iraq was the straw that broke the camels back for me.).
 
It's a mistake to think that what you have experienced in the past is what will always be. Things change and they are changing more rapidly than ever.

The influence of libertarians has grown considerably. Libertarians were on the right side of and out in front of Democrats on Iraq, gay marriage and marijuana. There has been a sea change in views on those issues. While Democrats were afraid to take the bold stands due to electoral costs, libertarians provided the vanguard.

Your thesis is pretty much bullshit. "Talking big on internet blogs" is what has created the change in opinions and the environment where policy change is possible.
You make a valid point.....things do change and maybe Libertarians will actually accomplish something....but keep in mind.....an old blind hog finds an acorn every now and then. To date, what have Libertarians accomplished? Nothing. What has their actuall influence on public policy been? Little to none. That's the cold hard reality!

If libertarians want to be taken seriously they need to step up to the plate, do more than talk and actually accomplish something. The honest to gods truth is their track record of accomplishment is almost non-exisitant.
 
The Republucans just confuse me, period.
I can't say that. I think one of the surprising things about the 2008 & 2012 elections is how Democrats out organized Republicans (particularly at a grass roots level) and how it was Republicans who formed the circular firing squads and made most of the major political gaffes (the 47% one comes to mind). Historically it's the Dems who do that.
 
You make a valid point.....things do change and maybe Libertarians will actually accomplish something....but keep in mind.....an old blind hog finds an acorn every now and then. To date, what have Libertarians accomplished? Nothing. What has their actuall influence on public policy been? Little to none. That's the cold hard reality!

If libertarians want to be taken seriously they need to step up to the plate, do more than talk and actually accomplish something. The honest to gods truth is their track record of accomplishment is almost non-exisitant.

No, it's not if or maybe they will accomplish something and achieve some measure of influence. They have.

You seem to suffer the great man fallacy and ignore the contributions that have created an environment that makes it possible for Barrack Obama to change his views on gay marriage or speak even the least bit favorably about medical marijuana. You are looking for the football spike and false glory.

I don't know if libertarians will ever achieve the sort of electoral success that seems to be the only thing you perceive as influence. I don't care either because the beauty pageants are not the true test of influence.
 
You miss my point. It doesn't matter what Libertarians believe in until they organize themselves and actually accomplish something.


Rand Paul calls himself a Libertarian, a Republican, and a Tea Party Activist. I personally find these things to be inconsistant. Who knows what a Republican is anymore, but I dont belive you can be Tea Party and Libertarian. The Tea party houses some of those most interested in invading our personal lives via Social Conservatism..... To me that is not Libertarian.
 
I'm not a communist, nor did I live in the Soviet Union - which was never communist, by the way.


Its was SOCIALIST.....thats still a fucked up system that failed.

The state ideology of the Soviet Union embodied a number of different theoretical streams, originating primarily from within the Marxist ideology of socialism, but with some minor threads emerging from within the Russian revolutionary movement such as the ideology of the Left Socialist-Revolutionaries or from within anarcho-communism

They certainly considered themselves 'COMMUNIST' whether you agree with it or not, comrade.

 
Rand Paul calls himself a Libertarian, a Republican, and a Tea Party Activist. I personally find these things to be inconsistant. Who knows what a Republican is anymore, but I dont belive you can be Tea Party and Libertarian. The Tea party houses some of those most interested in invading our personal lives via Social Conservatism..... To me that is not Libertarian.
you're still looking at the TEA jacktivists, not the actual TEA party people, but you keep looking through your lib shades, it suits your ignorance.
 
Rand Paul calls himself a Libertarian, a Republican, and a Tea Party Activist. I personally find these things to be inconsistant. Who knows what a Republican is anymore, but I dont belive you can be Tea Party and Libertarian. The Tea party houses some of those most interested in invading our personal lives via Social Conservatism..... To me that is not Libertarian.

Thats because in your closed mind you have a black/white definitions of every label, when in reality everything overlaps or has degrees of elements in common....
Socialism/Communism/Democrats, etc......interwoven into there newly invented fabric.....
its the same with Tea Party, Conservative, Republican, Libertarian......some commonalities and degrees of agreement....
Nothing absolute.
 
Thats because in your closed mind you have a black/white definitions of every label, when in reality everything overlaps or has degrees of elements in common....
Socialism/Communism/Democrats, etc......interwoven into there newly invented fabric.....
its the same with Tea Party, Conservative, Republican, Libertarian......some commonalities and degrees of agreement....
Nothing absolute.

You fail to see that some of these self imposed labels are inconsistant? Its Polititians trying to be everything to everyone.
 
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