The simple test for any trump "peace plan"

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Walt

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If trump gets NATO membership for Ukraine, I will have to admit I was wrong about trump, at least in foreign policy. NATO membership for Ukraine would guarantee a real peace.

What I think is more likely is that trump will side with Putin, and try to get Putin victories that Putin could not get in war. trump will try to give Putin land, limit the Ukrainian Army to allow Putin an easy victory in the next round, and even give Putin control over who governs Ukraine. These are things that Putin was unable to get in war, but trump wants to hand Putin.

trump wants a peace deal similar to the Czechoslovakia peace deal offered to Hitler.
 
Walt said:
If trump gets NATO membership for Ukraine, I will have to admit I was wrong about trump, at least in foreign policy. NATO membership for Ukraine would guarantee a real peace.

What I think is more likely is that trump will side with Putin, and try to get Putin victories that Putin could not get in war. trump will try to give Putin land, limit the Ukrainian Army to allow Putin an easy victory in the next round, and even give Putin control over who governs Ukraine. These are things that Putin was unable to get in war, but trump wants to hand Putin.

trump wants a peace deal similar to the Czechoslovakia peace deal offered to Hitler.
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Trump is more loyal to Russia than the US.
 
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Biden has given Ukraine $38 billion so far. As for the Czech comparison, that doesn't fly. This is far more akin to Stalin's invasion of Romania that France and Britain really didn't give a shit about. In June 1940, Stalin delivered an ultimatum to Romania that they cede the provinces of Bessarabia and Northern Bukovina to the Soviet Union. He massed the Red Army on Romania's border to back up this threat. Romania ceded the land and withdrew their forces and government rather than fight.

The Czech deal was Britain and France gave the Sudetenland to Germany in exchange for a promise from Hitler for no more expansion. That was clearly a mistake. Of course, at the same time, Stalin invaded and took over the Baltic states, again Britain and France did nothing.

Just remember, Stalin also invaded Poland shortly after Hitler did and they divided the country between them.

It is highly improbable that the US and NATO will make Ukraine a member while it is at war. That's pretty much a 100% certainty. Getting a peace in that war is also not highly probable. Ukraine on its own can't really win, and Russia likewise is unable to push home a victory. A brokered peace is about all anyone can get out it.

The mistake was made in letting Putin start that war, and that one is squarely on Joke Bribem.
 
ADreamOfLiberty said:
Without a treaty of neutrality Ukraine and Nato won't agree because they would assume Russia would just attack again as soon as they're ready to try again.
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Russia already promised it would not invade Ukraine... And then did. A treaty with Russia is worthless.
 
Goyboy said:
Also left out of what needs to happen is elections in Ukraine. Zelenskyy cannot be allowed to become an unopposed dictator.
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Yes, Putin wants to negotiate who the leaders of Ukraine will be. Yet again, if Putin had won the war, he could create fake elections like he does in Russia. He did not, moving on.
 
Walt said:
If trump gets NATO membership for Ukraine, I will have to admit I was wrong about trump, at least in foreign policy. NATO membership for Ukraine would guarantee a real peace.

What I think is more likely is that trump will side with Putin, and try to get Putin victories that Putin could not get in war. trump will try to give Putin land, limit the Ukrainian Army to allow Putin an easy victory in the next round, and even give Putin control over who governs Ukraine. These are things that Putin was unable to get in war, but trump wants to hand Putin.

trump wants a peace deal similar to the Czechoslovakia peace deal offered to Hitler.
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There is nothing novel about you being wrong, Walter.

It happens almost daily with you on JPP.
 
Earl said:
There is nothing novel about you being wrong, Walter.
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You have a lot of confidence that trump will get NATO membership for Ukraine, and I will be wrong. I hope I am wrong, but it is going to be tough for trump. Worse yet, I do not even think trump will try. he does not do hard.
 
Walt said:
You have a lot of confidence that trump will get NATO membership for Ukraine, and I will be wrong. I hope I am wrong, but it is going to be tough for trump. Worse yet, I do not even think trump will try. he does not do hard.
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I've never expressed that, Walter.

Why do you assume things that aren't facts?

Do you think it's hard to fight law-fare, assassination attempts, the media, and the far left loons and still win, Walter?

I do.

I don't believe that America cares a great deal anymore what the left believes, Walter.
 
Earl said:
I've never expressed that, Walter.
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I said if trump could get Ukraine NATO membership, I would have to admit I was wrong, and you said I would have to admit I was wrong.

If you do not believe trump can get Ukraine NATO membership, then we agree, and we would both be wrong if trump instead succeeds. I just do not see it as happening.
 
The Trump Administration said:
Too bad.
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If you offer too bad of a deal for the Ukrainians, they will do the reasonable thing and turn it down. It is better to die while fighting than to die while surrendering. trump can cut them off, but the Europeans will continue to support them. But, Europe will see no point in supporting us at that point.
 
ADreamOfLiberty said:
They consider the Budapest memorandum to have been violated by the US trying to puppet the Ukrainian government (there are audio recordings).
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Russia invaded Ukraine, in violation of the Budapest Memorandum, and so accuses everyone else of doing it.
 
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