The Unreasonable Effectiveness of Mathematics in the Natural Sciences

[Cypress]

Agreed on both points.

The preponderance of evidence indicates that we're the only ones we know about. Likewise, we can either surmise that humans are the only technologically capable, intelligent sentient species in the Universe based upon the preponderance of evidence, or we can surmise we're the only ones we know about.

True, but we have a lot of evidence of Earth and it's history of life, and basically no evidence of alien worlds. So we are warranted in being more certain about our beliefs about Earth.

Agreed about the resilience of more primitive lifeforms, I'm still inclined to the Red Queen hypothesis that intelligence and sentience are the inevitable consequence of species survival for both predator and prey.

That said, due to the vast distances involved and the unlikely probability that life will generate, we might be the only lifeforms in our galaxy. Out of the two trillion+ galaxies in the Universe, that's still a lot of eventual sentient species.

I respect that you put stock in the red Queen hypothesis.

That deals with evolution by natural selection and genetics.

The first hurdle to get over is the origin of life itself. We have made barely any progress in the last 70 years in understanding how biology somehow emerges from inanimate chemistry.

The cockroaches will still be here long after homo sapiens are extinct and gone. So if nature has an ideal blueprint for a successful and resilient species, it doesn't seem to be a bipedal hominid with a large brain.

Agreed on the exceptional rarity of life.

 

[IBDaMann]

Wigner found it miraculous that human-invented math so perfectly mirrors reality,

Does it really matter that Wigner found it miraculous?

Predictive Power: Mathematical theories often possess predictive power,

Math has no predictive power; that's what science has. If you weren't completely scientifically illiterate, you would have called booooooolsch't when you should have.

Scientists don't know why this deep harmony exists,

You should have called booooooolsch't here as well. Wigner only gets to speak for himself, not for any class.

 

[IBDaMann]

True, but we have a lot of evidence of Earth and it's history of life, and basically no evidence of alien worlds. So we are warranted in being more certain about our beliefs about Earth.

Did you just argue that absence of evidence is evidence of absence?

That deals with evolution by natural selection and genetics. The first hurdle to get over is the origin of life itself.

Nope. Origins have nothing to do with evolution.

We have made barely any progress in the last 70 years in understanding how biology somehow emerges from inanimate chemistry.

You are chanting. How life originated from non-life has been a rather straightforward concept for over a century.

I see that you continue to misspell "I" as "We".

The cockroaches will still be here long after homo sapiens are extinct and gone.

You can't be guaranteed of that. You picked the wrong life form.

So if nature has an ideal blueprint for a successful and resilient species, it doesn't seem to be a bipedal hominid with a large brain.

The movie Prometheus addressed this point.

Agreed on the exceptional rarity of life.

You are most certainly in error.

 

[IBDaMann]

Lack of science and math education.

Too funny. Look at the scientifically illiterate moron throwing stones in his glass house.

Lack of intuition to grasp seemingly simple but deceptively complex questions.

You know that you are describing yourself, yes?

 

[Freddy Figbottom]

We don't know how many sentient species have existed on Earth over billions of years. All we know is who has survived. In another billion or so years, some sentient creatures may be wondering if they were the only ones that ever existed.

Note that various tectonic shifts and ice ages may have wiped out previous signs of life. The dinosaurs were wiped out 65M years ago, a relatively short time in the age of the Earth.

Planet Earth Through the Ages - NASA Science

Earth hasn’t always looked the same. Over billions of years, it has gone from orange dot, to a snowball to the blue orb we call home When we talk about "Earth-like" planets, that term can be very different than the world we know today.

science.nasa.gov

is the effectiveness of math rational?

 

[Freddy Figbottom]

So if nature has an ideal blueprint for a successful and resilient species, it doesn't seem to be a bipedal hominid with a large brain.

nature doesn't have an ideal blueprint for life.

nature is substrate for life experiments of all kinds.

 

[Cypress]

Does it really matter that Wigner found it miraculous?

The opinions of Nobel prize-winning physicists about the universe are generally worth considering.

Math has no predictive power!

Wigner only gets to speak for himself, not for any class!

Explain in your own words exactly why it should be that the past, present, and future state, organization, and structure of the universe should so perfectly conform to and be represented in the precision of human-invented maths.

Throwing your hands up in the air and blurting out "that's just the way it is!" is not an intellectually or philosophically adequate answer.

 

[Cypress]

is the effectiveness of math rational?

You're changing the word choice the author used in the OP used in order to fit your own preconceived notion.

'unreasonable' = unjustified = lacking a reason.

Scientists do not know the reason why the past, present, and future state of the universe is so perfectly reflected in the precision of human invented maths.

 

[IBDaMann]

The opinions of Nobel prize-winning physicists about the universe are generally worth considering.

... and the opinions of celebrity actors about politics are also generally worth considering, right?

The answer is "no". The opinions of anyone about that which he has not observed is wildly speculative and should be viewed with great scrutiny.

[permutation formula omitted]

Explain in your own words exactly why it should be that the past, present, and future state, organization, and structure of the universe should so perfectly conform to and be represented in the precision of human-invented maths.

You need to explain:

1. Why you posted the permutation formula as an example of math that has predictive power?
2. Why are you claiming to know the past, present and future state, organization and structure of the universe? [tell me with a straight face that you didn't just copy-paste this from some WACKO's website]
3. Why are you claiming that universe somehow conforms to human-invented math as opposed to noting that humans invent math that conforms to the universe?

Throwing your hands up in the air and blurting out "that's just the way it is!" is not an intellectually or philosophically adequate answer.

Refusing to acknowledge that science is an open functional system because the universe is what it is, is being someone who allows others to do his thinking for him.

 

[Cypress]

... and the opinions of celebrity actors about politics are also generally worth considering, right?

The answer is "no". The opinions of anyone about that which he has not observed is wildly speculative and should be viewed with great scrutiny.



You need to explain:

1. Why you posted the permutation formula as an example of math that has predictive power?
2. Why are you claiming to know the past, present and future state, organization and structure of the universe? [tell me with a straight face that you didn't just copy-paste this from some WACKO's website]
3. Why are you claiming that universe somehow conforms to human-invented math as opposed to noting that humans invent math that conforms to the universe?


Refusing to acknowledge that science is an open functional system because the universe is what it is, is being someone who allows others to do his thinking for him.

^^ Had to frantically Google the permutation formula, lol.

So you don't how a permutation formula is used (commence frantic googling now...)

And you don't have an explanation in your own words for why exactly it should be the past, present, and future state of the universe is represented accurately in human-invented maths.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

^^ Had to frantically Google the permutation formula, lol.

So you don't how a permutation formula is used (commence frantic googling now...)

And you don't have an explanation in your own words for why exactly it should be the past, present, and future state of the universe is represented in human invented math.

IIRC, Sybil used to work in computers before his onset of schizophrenia. Sad.

 

[Cypress]

IIRC, Sybil used to work in computers before his onset of schizophrenia. Sad.

I've never thought he had any good original insights or comments on any substantive topic, which is why I usually ignore him and his mental illness.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I've never thought he had any good original insights or comments on any substantive topic, which is why I usually ignore him and his mental illness.

He's a pretty sick puppy. Sad. John Bradford's comment is always something to think about in such cases.

While no political alignment has a monopoly on mentally ill followers, it seems the MAGAts are working hard to corner the market. LOL

 

[Cypress]

He's a pretty sick puppy. Sad. John Bradford's comment is always something to think about in such cases.

While no political alignment has a monopoly on mentally ill followers, it seems the MAGAts are working hard to corner the market. LOL

He also seems to crave my attention. He seems to be always reading my posts and composing verbose responses to them. Meanwhile, I would barely notice he was even here if his responses didn't pop up in my notifications.

Some people just aren't interesting, intelligent, or entertaining enough to waste precious time on!

 

[Dutch Uncle]

He also seems to crave my attention. He seems to be always reading my posts and composing verbose responses to them. Meanwhile, I would barely notice he was even here if his responses didn't pop up in my notifications.

Some people just aren't interesting, intelligent, or entertaining enough to waste precious time on!

Agreed. Nutty people are an interest to an extent, but once they become repetitious, I move on to something more interesting.

 

[IBDaMann]

^^ Had to frantically Google the permutation formula, lol.

I am proficient in combinatorics, and you just pivoted. Why did you post the permutation formula as an example of math with predictive powers?

And you don't have an explanation in your own words for why exactly it should be the past, present, and future state of the universe is represented accurately in human-invented maths.

So you really don't have any reading comprehension. I answered your question quite thoroughly while pointing out the major problems in your premise.

 

[IBDaMann]

He also seems to crave my attention.

Your attention is entirely optional.

He seems to be always reading my posts

I don't seem to read them. I read them. They are quite amusing.

and composing verbose responses to them.

... and it bothers you greatly that your errors are being exposed.

Meanwhile, I would barely notice he was even here if his responses didn't pop up in my notifications.

Please feel free to ignore posts.

 

[Cypress]

Why did you post the permutation formula as an example of math with predictive powers?!!!

"The permutation formula is a mathematical tool used in combinatorics to predict the total number of unique ordered arrangements (permutations) that can be formed by selecting a certain number of items from a larger set."

- AI summary​

​

I am done with your ignorance, and wasting my time explaining things to you.

 

[IBDaMann]

"The permutation formula is a mathematical tool used in combinatorics to predict the total number of unique ordered arrangements (permutations) that can be formed by selecting a certain number of items from a larger set."

- AI summary​

​

When all you are able to post are the errors you copy-paste, no one should be surprised when you declare errors with the greatest of conviction.

The permutation formula calculates a number of possibilities. It doesn't predict which possibility will occur. It can tell you how many different 5 die roll sequences are possible, but it cannot predict which one will occur. You would know this if you had ever attended college.

I am done with your ignorance, ...

You're getting desperate. This is yet another topic for which you have revealed that you know nothing while pretending to be an expert.

 

[Dutch Uncle]

I am proficient in combinatorics, and you just pivoted. Why did you post the permutation formula as an example of math with predictive powers?


So you really don't have any reading comprehension. I answered your question quite thoroughly while pointing out the major problems in your premise.

^^^
Sybil, the expert on everything.