The Witch Trials of J.K. Rowling | The Free Press

[Scott]

In the case of sports, I think that biological women should have the right to not compete with trans women if they don't want to.

Women have a choice to compete against a bio man ... or NOT compete at all. Are you happy about that?

No. I'd be fine if there could be 2 separate streams- one for biological women that didn't mind competing with trans women and one who preferred only competing with other biological women.

 

[Scott]

"Woke", "trans" .... fear. People will throw into the mix anything they hate and fear.

I was never a fan of Rowling's work, but I'm fascinated as how it's wild success has given her an international platform for her personal opinions.

Personally, I agree with her. Biology is biology, reality is reality. 'Nuff said.

As for everyone turning against her, I'm not surprised. Her fandom, success is based on creating a FANTASY world. Her statements regarding the whole "trans" situation essentially destroys the fantasy parts of that issue. It's like an adult explaining to a room of kids that while there is Christmas, there is no Santa Claus.

And the band played on.

In terms of Rowling's books, I tried reading the first one but stopped shortly thereafter. I saw several of the movies and liked them quite a bit.

I remember hearing/reading somewhere that the best fantasy is firmly tied to reality, though not always in obvious ways. Untether fantasy for reality entirely and we simply can't relate. It's certainly true that many have turned on her since she voiced her views on transgenderism, but some, like myself, have admired her for it. I think it gives a new dimension to her fictional work and plants it firmly in reality. She doesn't just stand for her principles via her fictional characters.

 

[Scott]

Having lived a fair amount of time in a large city (Toronto), I've seen some transgender people in person and I also lived in the same apartment building as someone who apparently was -both- sexes (that is, they could both get pregnant and impregnate and did so), but nothing other than that outside of tv/internet as far as I know.

In any case, the examples I brought up in post #70 are real. The fact that I never met them doesn't change that fact.

J. K. Rowling was first verbally attacked by the Religious Christian Conservative White people that accused her of witchcraft and everything under the sun for the story material of her children's books. I witnessed the same thing happen, when the same people misunderstood a comment made by John Lennon about the Beatles being more popular than Jesus. And then the Christians and Church Leaders scheduled Beatles Record Bon-fires to protest the Beatles. The very same people that scheduled her Books to be thrown in the Bonfires- but just a different generation.

Yeah, the article in the opening post references the bit about christian conservatives. To white:

**
In the late 1990s and early 2000s, many Christians saw her stories of witchcraft as dangerous for children, both sinful and poisonous. They made films and wrote books decrying her influence, sermonized against her, and campaigned to have her work removed from schools and libraries. Their efforts to censor the series made “Harry Potter” among the most banned books of two different decades. Some of these Christians, too, burned her books.
**

Source:
The Witch Trials of J.K. Rowling | The Free Press

She did not ask for that, and neither did the Beatles, nor did either do anything really to deserve that kind of hatred expressed towards them.

And I do not really see anything that she said referring to Trans people that should upset Trans people. BUT, It's her reputation that she has to take some responsibility for. Have you ever heard the phrase- SOME THINGS ARE JUST BETTER LEFT UNSAID?

I have. I don't think it applies here. I think Rowling made the right call to say what she said. Not doing so would have left this solely as a "right vs. left" thing, when the truth is it's far more nuanced. I think at this point, it might be good to quote exactly what it is she said that got so many to cancel her. Quoting from the article linked to in the opening post:

**
It all blew up in the summer of 2020.

“‘People who menstruate,’” Rowling wrote on Twitter, quoting a headline. “I’m sure there used to be a word for those people. Someone help me out. Wumben? Wimpund? Woomud?”

She continued: “If sex isn’t real, there’s no same-sex attraction. If sex isn’t real, the lived reality of women globally is erased. I know and love trans people, but erasing the concept of sex removes the ability of many to meaningfully discuss their lives. It isn’t hate to speak the truth.”

It’s hard to capture the breadth of the firestorm that followed.
**

Source:
The Witch Trials of J.K. Rowling | The Free Press

When you become a public figure, and when it comes to LGBTQ issues, I believe it is best to just stay out of the argument, if something you have to say may offend them. I mean unless you like to be criticized by them.

I don't think it's so simple. I think what happened here is that a certain segment of the transgender community went off the rails. Rowling stated that she "knows and loves" the transgender community. I think what essentially happened here is she saw the community going off the rails and decided it would be best to point out where she believes they are going wrong. If I see a friend that I think is going off the rails, I tend to point it out to them. Not doing so would make me a bad friend in my view.

Hollywood has Blackballed it's own actors and movie people for many years, for taking sides in Political or Religious arguments or with Gay or Sexual issues, adulterous affairs, and every kind of scandal you can imagine. Actors get blackballed, and so do directors for just starring in, or directing movies that have LGBTQ issues in them.

Sometimes it has helped their careers, while for others, it sunk their careers.

I am not saying this is the way it should or should not be, I am just stating this is the world we live in.

We'd need to get into details to verify all of this, but I suspect you're right on all these points.

And if you are lucky enough to become a public figure in this world, but your success depends upon a fandom base, BE VERY CAREFUL ABOUT WHAT YOU SAY when talking about Politics, Religion, or sexually based topic matters. Because once something's said, there is no un-hearing it. My parents raised me to either say something positive about the ones you are speaking of- OR SAY NOTHING AT ALL!

Reminds me of that line from Bambi: "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all" . I certainly agree that there are times when this is good advice. However, I also think that there are times when a friend or a community need to hear things that they may not want to hear.

I mean why risk chasing away your fan base, and drawing bad press, for saying something that some people would consider as controversial comments?

Because a good friend tries to correct excessively bad behaviour from their friend even if it costs them the friendship itself.

I mean, if I were a comedian, and my theme was making fun of women in my act, I would not expect that women would be my favorite fans.

Yes, but now we're getting into something else. Rowling wasn't trying to make fun of anyone, she was just trying to point out where part of the transgender community was going wrong.

 

[Scott]

As I've mentioned with Bigdog, I think there's a middle ground, which is that transmen and transwomen can be men and women respectively -gender- wise, but not biologically.

And I disagree.

Why?

Already covered.

Where?

I agree that gender identity is something that happens in the mind, but it heterosexuality and homosexuality have nothing to do with it. Those are sexual -orientations-. Gender identity is about the gender that a person identifies with. At this point, there are a -lot- of them. Wikipedia has a long list here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_gender_identities

Gender has everything to do with sex.

That depends on who's defining the terms. From where I stand, I think the definition differentiation of gender and biological sex is the one that's winning out and I think that's as it should be.

The ones most people are familiar with are male and female, though I have heard of "cisgender" in the past, which they mention, as well as cis male and cis female. In case you're not familiar:

**
A cisgender (can be shortened to cis; sometimes cissexual) person has a gender identity that matches their sex assigned at birth. A person whose sex was assigned male at birth and identifies as a boy or a man, or someone whose sex was assigned female at birth and identifies as a girl or a woman, is considered cisgender.[1]
**

Source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisgender

I am familiar with this wordplay intended to legitimize this tomfoolery.

It appears that while we agreed to some extent in regards to transgenderism going too far, we also disagree on other aspects. I think the above definitions are useful.

Transgender people are clearly not cisgender. All of this makes a clear distiction between one's biological sex and one's gender identity.

And its all nonsense.

I suspect we'll just have to agree to disagree here.

Wait a second, are you suggesting that one's sexual orientation/attraction is a -choice-? If so, I strongly disagree. There's a line I have heard often- one can control one's actions, not one's attractions, and I'm a strong believer in it.

Yes, its a choice. If not explain Anne Heche ? And no, she herself said she was not bi-sexual.

Explain her in what way? I haven't seen her say she wasn't bi-sexual myself, but even if she did, it's just a word. She -has- described herself as being sexually fluid, at least according to a today article I found on her:
Anne Heche addresses gossip columnist who criticized her sexuality 20 years ago | today.com

I see that she's had romantic relationships with both men and women and that Wikipedia lists her under various categories, including:
American bisexual actors
Bisexual actresses
LGBT television directors

Source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Heche

I certainly haven't seen any polls as to how many people are ok with the idea of allowing that one can have a gender identity that is not the same as one's biological sex, but regardless of whether or not people are ok with it, transgender people are clearly living this. I for one don't see any problem with this. The issue becomes when people who are transgender want to be treated the same as those who are cisgendered in all aspects. As I mentioned with Bigdog, there are some situations where this seems to be the wrong way to do things, such as sports.

Trans people suffer the mental illness of gender dysphoria, there is no argument over this [in] the medical community. There are two forms of treatment; one is standard psychology which gets them past this confusion. It works just fine, takes a little time. The other is drugs and sometimes surgery. This is a VERY lucrative process and is relatively quick. It is also becoming increasingly a regret by those talked into it. That sad boy on the cable series "I Am Jazz" which followed him trying to become a girl is a notable example. He's clinically depressed, put on a hundred pounds etc. His was founded on mom's Munchausens by Proxy. But the fake penises leave them incontinent and don't operate for the other use and the tissues have to be harvested from the arm or leg leaving a rather unattractive scar that never goes back to looking like it used to. People are not happy with the results.

An abcnews article cites studies that have transgender surgery regret as very low:
**
Some studies suggest that rates of regret have declined over the years as patient selection and treatment methods have improved. In a review of 27 studies involving almost 8,000 teens and adults who had transgender surgeries, mostly in Europe, the U.S and Canada, 1% on average expressed regret. For some, regret was temporary, but a small number went on to have detransitioning or reversal surgeries, the 2021 review said.
**

Source:
How common is transgender treatment regret, detransitioning? | abcnews.go.com


They also suggest how to best avoid these cases:
**
Research suggests that comprehensive psychological counseling before starting treatment, along with family support, can reduce chances for regret and detransitioning.
**

I also strongly suspect that it'd be best to postpone any potential surgeries until a person is an adult.

I think it would be for the best if commercial settings started having a few gender neutral washrooms as well. It would avoid the incredibly controversial issue of which washroom transgender people should use.

Building codes do not allow for that vague an approach.

It's getting done in some places:
How Architects Are Designing Gender-Neutral Washrooms | azuremagazine.com

Cure the illness and there IS no problem.

I haven't seen any solid evidence that wanting to have transgender surgery means that one is mentally ill.

Seeing as how I don't believe that AIDS is caused by a contagious virus, I'd have to disagree with you there.

Huge number of homosexual men who prove the point.

I heard that it started with gay men popping certain pills that would make them sick. In any case, if you really want to get into the issue of viruses, there is always the thread I started a few months ago:

Settling the Biological Virus Debate | justplainpolitics.com

So you think homosexuality is a mental illness? For the record, I don't.

Science said it was for hundreds of years and nothing else has been discovered to alter that. I do not expect you to agree, just pointing out historical context.

Science is a methodology that comes up with theories. Not all scientific theories have stood the test of time. I believe that the theory that homosexuality is an illness has now been refuted with solid evidence that this isn't the case.

I believe that AIDS is caused by toxins introduced into the body. Below, I quote a bit of text from a site that gets into it more. One thing, I certainly don't claim that it's been proven that an HIV virus doesn't cause AIDS. However, I strongly believe that it's the most [probable] explanation.

And how is that not a virus except that virus is a very specific structure and "toxin" is not.

The definition of biological viruses are that they hijack cells to self replicate. Toxins don't do that.

Over the last 30 years or so medical ideas involving mysterious and never defined "toxins" have been getting blamed for any number of things with cures offered up that never work. Its a whole lot like 1800's snake oil cures with a somewhat more sciency presentation selling alcohol, caffein, cocaine and the like. You will have to forgive me if I cannot take such seriously.

There have been skeptics of biological viruses since the time that they were allegedly discovered. It's part of a larger debate, germ theory vs. terrain theory. Anyway, if you really want to get into the subject, there's the thread I mentioned earlier.

 

[Celticguy]

Where?

the snip just below your "why"

That depends on who's defining the terms. From where I stand, I think the definition differentiation of gender and biological sex is the one that's winning out and I think that's as it should be.

Science took care of that long ago.

It appears that while we agreed to some extent in regards to transgenderism going too far, we also disagree on other aspects. I think the above definitions are useful.

ok. I do not

[quoteIsuspect we'll just have to agree to disagree here.[/quote]
yup

Explain her in what way?

If its not a choice this isn't possible

An abcnews article cites studies that have transgender surgery regret as very low:

Research suggests that comprehensive psychological counseling before starting treatment, along with family support, can reduce chances for regret and detransitioning.
[/quote]
Source is a body supporting transitioning therapies/surgeries. Seems the psych review and education is not happening.
Do you think anyone would see the actual process would be ready to say ok ?

Please note that those areas harvested do not grow back.

I also strongly suspect that it'd be best to postpone any potential surgeries until a person is an adult.

I'd go so far as to say its child abuse to do otherwise.

I haven't seen any solid evidence that wanting to have transgender surgery means that one is mentally ill.

You quoted is just now. Psych eval should be done.

In any case, if you really want to get into the issue of viruses

no thanks

 

[Scott]

That depends on who's defining the terms. From where I stand, I think the definition differentiation of gender and biological sex is the one that's winning out and I think that's as it should be.

Science took care of that long ago.

I decided to take a look at the definitions of science. Turns out, there's quite a few of them. The issue here is simply definitions. To paraphrase Frank Herbert, famous for his Dune novels once said, words can carry any burden we wish. These days, a lot of people are defining gender as separate from one's biological sex and I think that's a good thing.

The ones most people are familiar with are male and female, though I have heard of "cisgender" in the past, which they mention, as well as cis male and cis female. In case you're not familiar:

**
A cisgender (can be shortened to cis; sometimes cissexual) person has a gender identity that matches their sex assigned at birth. A person whose sex was assigned male at birth and identifies as a boy or a man, or someone whose sex was assigned female at birth and identifies as a girl or a woman, is considered cisgender.[1]
**

Source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisgender

I am familiar with this wordplay intended to legitimize this tomfoolery.

It appears that while we agreed to some extent in regards to transgenderism going too far, we also disagree on other aspects. I think the above definitions are useful.

ok. I do not

Even if you consider transgender people to be mentally ill, it doesn't change the fact that words like cisgender and transgender help describe the difference between transgender people and those who aren't.

Wait a second, are you suggesting that one's sexual orientation/attraction is a -choice-? If so, I strongly disagree. There's a line I have heard often- one can control one's actions, not one's attractions, and I'm a strong believer in it.

Yes, its a choice. If not explain Anne Heche ? And no, she herself said she was not bi-sexual.

Explain her in what way? I haven't seen her say she wasn't bi-sexual myself, but even if she did, it's just a word. She -has- described herself as being sexually fluid, at least according to a today article I found on her:
Anne Heche addresses gossip columnist who criticized her sexuality 20 years ago | today.com

I see that she's had romantic relationships with both men and women and that Wikipedia lists her under various categories, including:
American bisexual actors
Bisexual actresses
LGBT television directors

If its not a choice this isn't possible

I still don't understand where you believe Anne Heche made a choice. As far as I know, she has never claimed to choose who she was sexually attracted to.

An abcnews article cites studies that have transgender surgery regret as very low:
**
Some studies suggest that rates of regret have declined over the years as patient selection and treatment methods have improved. In a review of 27 studies involving almost 8,000 teens and adults who had transgender surgeries, mostly in Europe, the U.S and Canada, 1% on average expressed regret. For some, regret was temporary, but a small number went on to have detransitioning or reversal surgeries, the 2021 review said.
**

Source:
How common is transgender treatment regret, detransitioning? | abcnews.go.com


They also suggest how to best avoid these cases:
**
Research suggests that comprehensive psychological counseling before starting treatment, along with family support, can reduce chances for regret and detransitioning.
**

Source is a body supporting transitioning therapies/surgeries.

Are you referring to abc news?

Seems the psych review and education is not happening.

What draws you to that conclusion?

Do you think anyone would see the actual process would be ready to say ok ?
View attachment 24981
Please note that those areas harvested do not grow back.

I believe so, yes. It would, ofcourse, be nice to have a poll of transgender people who transitioned to see how much they knew of the process before transitioning, but if only around 1% regret transitioning, it suggests that they're generally happy with transitioning regardless of how much they knew beforehand.

I also strongly suspect that it'd be best to postpone any potential surgeries until a person is an adult.

I'd go so far as to say its child abuse to do otherwise.

I think it'd make more sense to ask people who transitioned before 18 whether or not they saw it as child abuse. I do suspect, however, that the regret rate for those who transitioned before 18 is higher than 1%. The problem is I don't know that, it's just a hunch. There clearly needs to be more research here.

I haven't seen any solid evidence that wanting to have transgender surgery means that one is mentally ill.

You quoted is just now. Psych eval should be done.

You haven't shown evidence that it isn't being done.

 

[Bigdog]

No. I'd be fine if there could be 2 separate streams- one for biological women that didn't mind competing with trans women and one who preferred only competing with other biological women.

Phoenyx, all those little girls and young women who do MIND competing against bio men ... will be targeted, threatened, attacked, demonized and called homophobes and transphobes by democrats. Basically the same thing that is happening to swimmer Riley Gaines except they won't have security guards.

Are you really willing to put all those young girls in that dangerous position?

Or do they deserve the SJW violence for not obeying leftist rightthink?



There IS already a stream for women to compete against bio men. Women are NOT banned from pretty much any American men's teams including Men's college and pro sports.

 

[Celticguy]

I decided to take a look at the definitions of science. Turns out, there's quite a few of them. The issue here is simply definitions. To paraphrase Frank Herbert, famous for his Dune novels once said, words can carry any burden we wish. These days, a lot of people are defining gender as separate from one's biological sex and I think that's a good thing.

Then words have no meaning at all. You mistake Herbert's intent.

Even if you consider transgender people to be mentally ill, it doesn't change the fact that words like cisgender and transgender help describe the difference between transgender people and those who aren't.

I don't consider dysphoria th me a mental illness, APA does. This is not in question.
Made up terms are meant to escape terms that the one using the terms wish to escape. Like liberals becoming progressives when liberal was deemed unattractive.
These people can't admit they are feeling homosexual and created this other way of saying it. Psych's can help people resolve these things and should be the solution.
One such person on Twitter had a curious and I have to wonder how correct a take it might be. He (identifying as she but admits he's homosexual) said when everybody was stuck in their homes for months on end they were so bored they started dreaming all thie crap up.

I still don't understand where you believe Anne Heche made a choice. As far as I know, she has never claimed to choose who she was sexually attracted to.

Struggling actress suddenly becomes homosexual and gal pal to star Ellen DeGeneres. Struggling actress finally starts getting roles and as her career is moving into higher gear she ceases to be homosexual saying very little other than that she was not bi. A different kind of sleeping your way up but still it is what it is.

Are you referring to abc news?

no, though they do.
the organization doing the study trying to justify their aims. Same reason ABC did the story.

What draws you to that conclusion?

the reporting I see from all over the country of people regretting it among them the kid on the TV show and lawyers representing them.

I believe so, yes. It would, ofcourse, be nice to have a poll of transgender people who transitioned to see how much they knew of the process before transitioning, but if only around 1% regret transitioning, it suggests that they're generally happy with transitioning regardless of how much they knew beforehand.

The only ones with resources to do so are the people who stand to lose business if the truth comes out.
You might be surprised to learn that quite a lot of children get steered to this at school and they are NOT getting a clear medical presentation only getting their thinking locked in on "transitioning". Its a lot more insidious than you know.

You haven't shown evidence that it isn't being done.

I am making myself more aware. You too might have shown evidence that it is it. We'll call that a wash.

 

[Scott]

Phoenyx, all those little girls and young women who do MIND competing against bio men ... will be targeted, threatened, attacked, demonized and called homophobes and transphobes by democrats. Basically the same thing that is happening to swimmer Riley Gaines except they won't have security guards.

Are you really willing to put all those young girls in that dangerous position?

Or do they deserve the SJW violence for not obeying leftist rightthink?

There IS already a stream for women to compete against bio men. Women are NOT banned from pretty much any American men's teams including Men's college and pro sports.

I think my method makes the most sense, that is, for biological women who don't want to compete with biological men to start creating their own clubs with that rule and everyone else can do as they like. I don't think the pushback will be as harsh as you suggest, but unless something like what I suggest is done, I think things will probably continue as they are and we may never know.

 

[Bigdog]

I think my method makes the most sense, that is, for biological women who don't want to compete with biological men to start creating their own clubs with that rule and everyone else can do as they like. I don't think the pushback will be as harsh as you suggest, but unless something like what I suggest is done, I think things will probably continue as they are and we may never know.

As a gentleman IRL, I feel a sense of duty to protect ladies in public places.

You want to gamble with the lives of girls and young women. Their blood will be on your hands.

You severely underestimate the SJW propensity for violence, threats and intimidation.

 

[Scott]

I decided to take a look at the definitions of science. Turns out, there's quite a few of them. The issue here is simply definitions. To paraphrase Frank Herbert, famous for his Dune novels once said, words can carry any burden we wish. These days, a lot of people are defining gender as separate from one's biological sex and I think that's a good thing.

Then words have no meaning at all. You mistake Herbert's intent.

I think the sentence Herbert put -after- the one I mentioned clarifies things a bit. Here's the 2 sentence quote:
**
Words can carry any burden we wish. All that's required is agreement and a tradition upon which to build.
**

Source:
https://libquotes.com/frank-herbert/quote/lbk7n2w

Clearly, there must be agreement amoung a group of people on what a word means. We have this when it comes to words such as gender, the issue is that there are 2 competing groups for what the word means. I strongly suspect that the group that is differentiating gender from biological sex will come out on top, but time will tell.

Even if you consider transgender people to be mentally ill, it doesn't change the fact that words like cisgender and transgender help describe the difference between transgender people and those who aren't.

I don't consider dysphoria th me a mental illness, APA does. This is not in question.

I think the way you're applying it leaves out quite a bit. Here's how Wikipedia introduces gender dysphoria:

**
Gender dysphoria (GD) is the distress a person experiences due to a mismatch between their gender identity—their personal sense of their own gender—and their sex assigned at birth.[5][6] The diagnostic label gender identity disorder (GID) was used until 2013 with the release of the diagnostic manual DSM-5. The condition was renamed to remove the stigma associated with the term disorder.[7]

People with gender dysphoria commonly identify as transgender.[8] Gender nonconformity is not the same thing as gender dysphoria[9] and does not always lead to dysphoria or distress.[10]

The causes of gender incongruence are unknown but a gender identity likely reflects genetic, biological, environmental, and cultural factors.[11][12][13] Treatment for gender dysphoria may include supporting the individual's gender expression or their desire for hormone therapy or surgery.[2][3] Treatment may also include counseling or psychotherapy.[3]
**

Source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_dysphoria

Made up terms are meant to escape terms that the one using the terms wish to escape.

All terms/words are made up. They frequently start as slang and if they become common enough, they make it to fairly well known places, such as dictionaries and Wikipedia.

Like liberals becoming progressives when liberal was deemed unattractive.

From what I've seen, plenty of people are still fine calling themselves liberal. I certainly prefer progressive, but I think that a lot of progressives fall short of my ideals. Anti war progressive gets closer to the mark. Very few of those left.

These people can't admit they are feeling homosexual and created this other way of saying it.

I'm not completely sure what you're saying, but many homosexuals are absolutely fine with their gender matching their biological sex.

Psych's can help people resolve these things and should be the solution.
One such person on Twitter had a curious and I have to wonder how correct a take it might be. He (identifying as she but admits he's homosexual) said when everybody was stuck in their homes for months on end they were so bored they started dreaming all thie crap up.

Not sure what you mean by "crap".

I still don't understand where you believe Anne Heche made a choice. As far as I know, she has never claimed to choose who she was sexually attracted to.

Struggling actress suddenly becomes homosexual and gal pal to star Ellen DeGeneres. Struggling actress finally starts getting roles and as her career is moving into higher gear she ceases to be homosexual saying very little other than that she was not bi. A different kind of sleeping your way up but still it is what it is.

Anne Heche died last year in a car accident, so she can no longer speak for herself. I believe I had heard of her before you brought her up, but not well. The bottom line is you haven't shown any solid evidence that Anne Heche could control her attractions. What she -could- control was who she decided to partner up with, but that's not the same thing. You have said that she didn't consider herself to be bisexual, but she -did- say that she was sexually fluid. I honestly don't know what the difference is and considering she's no longer with us, we may never get her take on this.

An abcnews article cites studies that have transgender surgery regret as very low:
**
Some studies suggest that rates of regret have declined over the years as patient selection and treatment methods have improved. In a review of 27 studies involving almost 8,000 teens and adults who had transgender surgeries, mostly in Europe, the U.S and Canada, 1% on average expressed regret. For some, regret was temporary, but a small number went on to have detransitioning or reversal surgeries, the 2021 review said.
**

Source:
How common is transgender treatment regret, detransitioning? | abcnews.go.com


They also suggest how to best avoid these cases:
**
Research suggests that comprehensive psychological counseling before starting treatment, along with family support, can reduce chances for regret and detransitioning.
**

Source is a body supporting transitioning therapies/surgeries.

Are you referring to abc news?

no, though they do.
the organization doing the study trying to justify their aims. Same reason ABC did the story.

Apparently you missed the fact that the abc news article was referring to a review of -27- studies, not just one. One thing I find ironic is that though AP News is a well known news outlet, this article doesn't include a source link to the study they were referring to. Fortunately, I was able to find it with the help of a reddit post. It's here:

Regret after Gender-affirmation Surgery: A Systematic Review and Meta-analysis of Prevalence | nih.gov

The reddit poster that helped me find the review had this to say which I think is relevant:

**
And it looks like the methodology is sound...but the inclusion criteria sort regarding age (mean) participant age somewhat misses the point of what's socially relevant. If you look at table 1 in the article, almost all mean (average) ages for transmasculine and transfeminine participants are over 18. What really is needed (and what people really care about) is the level of regret for minors (people under 18) regarding hormone replacement therapy and/or gender reassignment surgery. This is a good study, but sort of doesn't really appeal to what people are most interested in.
**

Source:
https://www.reddit.com/r/JordanPete...a_review_of_27_studies_involving_almost_8000/

the reporting I see from all over the country of people regretting it among them the kid on the TV show and lawyers representing them.

They also suggest how to best avoid these cases:
**
Research suggests that comprehensive psychological counseling before starting treatment, along with family support, can reduce chances for regret and detransitioning.
**

Seems the psych review and education is not happening.

What draws you to that conclusion?

the reporting I see from all over the country of people regretting it among them the kid on the TV show and lawyers representing them.

There definitely seems to be some issues when it comes to minors transitioning. As I've said in the past, I'm not sure that minors should be transitioning to begin with.

Do you think anyone would see the actual process would be ready to say ok ?
View attachment 24981

Please note that those areas harvested do not grow back.

I believe so, yes. It would, ofcourse, be nice to have a poll of transgender people who transitioned to see how much they knew of the process before transitioning, but if only around 1% regret transitioning, it suggests that they're generally happy with transitioning regardless of how much they knew beforehand.

The only ones with resources to do so are the people who stand to lose business if the truth comes out.

Regardless of how much they knew, if only around 1% regret transitioning, I think that's pretty good. However, I grant you that it would be much better of 0% regretted transitioning, but I think as more people are aware of the reasons people regret transitioning, the most people who might have those regrets will probably not transition to begin with.

You might be surprised to learn that quite a lot of children get steered to this at school and they are NOT getting a clear medical presentation only getting their thinking locked in on "transitioning". Its a lot more insidious than you know.

I think we can agree that it would be best if a study was done about this type of thing instead of just relying on news reports, as a study would give a better idea of how systemic this problem is. However, I can certainly agree that there are problems here.

You quoted is just now. Psych eval should be done.

You haven't shown evidence that it isn't being done.

I am making myself more aware. You too might have shown evidence that it is it. We'll call that a wash

We agree that pscy eval -should- be done. As to how often it's being done, that'd require a study to figure out.

 

[serendipity]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1288036122988351489

 

[serendipity]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1288036122988351489

 

[Scott]

twitter.com/JarvisDupont/status/1288036122988351489?t=pxMALAwecvQ2ewzaMxyAYA&s=19

Looks like some really good satire there.