Theoretical models of evolution have completely collapsed in light of real-world data

Mott the Hoople said:
So why then are almost all branches of applied biology based on evolutionary theory?

Are you saying that a shift in allele frequency over time isn’t an objective empirical fact?

What evidence do you have that the three laws of nature that support natural selection, the laws of inheritance, variation and superfecundancy, have been falsified?

BTW, what is your education in Biology?
Click to expand...

Nice work, Mott.

Bible thumpers aside, evolution is a theory so thoroughly tested and confirmed that it can be considered a tenet of modern science.

Except for evangelical bible thumpers, I don't even know any religious people who have a problem with evolution. Certainly, the Catholic church and most mainline Protestants do not generally deny evolution. The Pope certainly considers evolution just part and parcel of God's plan.

I think it all goes back to the Scopes monkey trial, and barely educated bible thumpers are still laboring under the impression that humans are direct descendants of Chimpanzees and modern monkeys. A conception of evolution that is both ignorant and wrong.

It's not my field, but I am sure we can look forward to learning more about evolution moving forward. As firmly grounded as the theory of evolution is, the work of science is never done, and we are still learning about gravity five centuries after Sir Isacc Newton!
 
Cypress said:
icr.org, aka "Institute for Creation Research" is not a credible scientific source.

Try again, this time with a reputable scientific source.


On a sidebar, I have found that evolution deniers, climate deniers, and the Flat Earth society use the exact same tactics to undermine scientific institutions and respect for expertise and scholarly knowledge.

It basically involves trying to use "blog science", disreputable sources, deception, fake experts, quacks, and subpar, unqualified, or outlier scientists.
Click to expand...


Don't try lumping climate sceptics in with creationists, you nasty fucking cunt!! Stick to harassing women, you're good at that.
 
Cypress said:
Nice work, Mott.

Bible thumpers aside, evolution is a theory so thoroughly tested and confirmed that it can be considered a tenet of modern science.

Except for evangelical bible thumpers, I don't even know any religious people who have a problem with evolution. Certainly, the Catholic church and most mainline Protestants do not generally deny evolution. The Pope certainly considers evolution just part and parcel of God's plan.

I think it all goes back to the Scopes monkey trial, and barely educated bible thumpers are still laboring under the impression that humans are direct descendants of Chimpanzees and modern monkeys. A conception of evolution that is both ignorant and wrong.

It's not my field, but I am sure we can look forward to learning more about evolution moving forward. As firmly grounded as the theory of evolution is, the work of science is never done, and we are still learning about gravity five centuries after Sir Isacc Newton!
Click to expand...

Exactly. Einsteins theory of special relativity shook the world as it showed just how little we actually knew about gravity.

The point that I keep hammering home to those who have never actually studied biology (and probably haven't seriously studied any science) is that if you're convinced that this theory is so seriously wrong then how comes so much very useful work is done with that knowledge?

They call it a theory in crisis and I find that funny as hell cause the only crisis appears to be with evengelicals and the Discovery institute. A whopping 0.20 second comprehensive Google search for peer reviewed articles on evolutionary biology came up with 37,400 peer reviewed articles for 2018 alone...and those are just English language articles. LOL
 
Grugore said:
By definition, all dogs, including wolves, are the same species since they are fertile with each other. No evolution has taken place. Once again, some ignorant atheist has confused evolution with adaptation. They are not the same thing. Please educate yourself. Your ignorance offends me
Click to expand...

Canis Lupus and Canis Lupus Familiaris have demonstrably different DNA.
They also have different skull proportions.
Evey dog from a Chihuahua to a Mastiff has comparable skull proportions.
A wolf's skull is proportionately smaller in the frontal area.
It's true, however, that dog-wolf hybrids are inter-fertile unlike Lion-Tiger hybrids which themselves cannot reproduce,
so for that reason, I didn't use the best example possible. Eventually, they evolve into actual dogs.

But even if that wasn't the best example, there are so many other indicators of evolution that to deny it is merely to identify oneself
as an illogical buffoon, in your case manifested in the religious zealotry of an insane person.

You're a trumpanzee, Grugore. Just as a dog-wolf hybrid is neither wolf nor dog, you're not a human being.
You're a devolved trumpanzee mutant. And it's unlikely that any progeny you might have would ever approach humanity again.

That means that even if your ludicrous belief that humans were made in the image of God were actually true,
that still wouldn't include you. You're not human. You're a clump of biological garbage.
Live with it. Or preferably, don't.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Exactly. Einsteins theory of special relativity shook the world as it showed just how little we actually knew about gravity.

The point that I keep hammering home to those who have never actually studied biology (and probably haven't seriously studied any science) is that if you're convinced that this theory is so seriously wrong then how comes so much very useful work is done with that knowledge?

They call it a theory in crisis and I find that funny as hell cause the only crisis appears to be with evengelicals and the Discovery institute. A whopping 0.20 second comprehensive Google search for peer reviewed articles on evolutionary biology came up with 37,400 peer reviewed articles for 2018 alone...and those are just English language articles. LOL
Click to expand...

Curvature of space and time is mind-blowing indeed, and there is a new ESA probe to Mercury that is going to test some aspects of general relativity -- so science is still probing Einstein's theory, and there is always more to learn about gravity...which is what makes science so bloody fun!

To me, what seems to freak bible thumpers out is just the very thought they are descended directly from modern monkeys. That is literally what they think the theory of evolution is trying to tell them and get them to believe.
I try to set them straight, and correct their misconception. But, I don't know if it is because they are dim-witted, or if I am just sucking at explaining the difference between direct descent/progeny - and being genetically related at the level of taxonomic order. My biology-geek skills may not be cutting the mustard!
 
Cypress said:
Curvature of space and time is mind-blowing indeed, and there is a new ESA probe to Mercury that is going to test some aspects of general relativity -- so science is still probing Einstein's theory, and there is always more to learn about gravity...which is what makes science so bloody fun!

To me, what seems to freak bible thumpers out is just the very thought they are descended directly from modern monkeys. That is literally what they think the theory of evolution is trying to tell them and get them to believe.
I try to set them straight, and correct their misconception. But, I don't know if it is because they are dim-witted, or if I am just sucking at explaining the difference between direct descent/progeny - and being genetically related at the level of taxonomic order. My biology-geek skills may not be cutting the mustard!
Click to expand...

No I think they have a legitimate concern, albeit probably a misplaced one, but one that would have been a legitimate concern in pre-modern times. One of the concepts of ethics and morality the Bible emphasizes is that we are not animals. We are civilized human beings and civilized human beings behave in a constrained manner which animals would not. Civilized human beings have systems of morals and ethics, animals do not.

Then along comes Darwin with his theory of biological evolution by natural selection which say's nope...we're not only an animal but we also share common ancestors with other animals. Which rather sets the notion that we are above the animals on its ears.

However, in modern times we realize that is a false dichotomy, that one can be an animal and yet be civilized and have systems of morals and ethics.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
No I think they have a legitimate concern, albeit probably a misplaced one, but one that would have been a legitimate concern in pre-modern times. One of the concepts of ethics and morality the Bible emphasizes is that we are not animals. We are civilized human beings and civilized human beings behave in a constrained manner which animals would not. Civilized human beings have systems of morals and ethics, animals do not.

Then along comes Darwin with his theory of biological evolution by natural selection which say's nope...we're not only an animal but we also share common ancestors with other animals. Which rather sets the notion that we are above the animals on its ears.

However, in modern times we realize that is a false dichotomy, that one can be an animal and yet be civilized and have systems of morals and ethics.
Click to expand...

Humans have always underestimated animals.

I have actually had dogs that appear to have more empathy than Donald Trump, who actually seems to have none.

I am also one thousand percent positive that dolphins are more intelligent than some rightwing posters on this forum.

With regards to Evolution, I have some lectures I am going to be watching on Australopithecus, homo erectus, and Cro-Magnon....so I plan on upping my game in the field of human evolution!
 
Cypress said:
icr.org, aka "Institute for Creation Research" is not a credible scientific source.

Try again, this time with a reputable scientific source.


On a sidebar, I have found that evolution deniers, climate deniers, and the Flat Earth society use the exact same tactics to undermine scientific institutions and respect for expertise and scholarly knowledge.

It basically involves trying to use "blog science", disreputable sources, deception, fake experts, quacks, and subpar, unqualified, or outlier scientists.
Click to expand...

If you cant refute the science denegrate the author.
 
Cypress said:
Humans have always underestimated animals.

I have actually had dogs that appear to have more empathy than Donald Trump, who actually seems to have none.

I am also one thousand percent positive that dolphins are more intelligent than some rightwing posters on this forum.

With regards to Evolution, I have some lectures I am going to be watching on Australopithecus, homo erectus, and Cro-Magnon....so I plan on upping my game in the field of human evolution!
Click to expand...
I’d recommend starting with selective breeding of domesticated plants and animals as a starting point for understanding evolutionary theory. I’d then study phylogenetics and learn how homologies create phylogeny. Then of course genetics role in evolution (neo-Darwinism) and then study punctuated equilibrium as there are several fascinating examples of that occurring during hominid evolution. Otherwise you tend to get caught up in the anthropology, which is certainly understandable, fascinating in itself. You have a geology background so understanding environmental factors in human evolution will be no stretch.

A good example of why you want to study punctuated equilibrium is understanding why the discovery of fire had such a profound evolutionary impact that occurred at a historical scale of time and not a geological one. How discovering cooking meat and consuming denatured proteins had an almost immediate impact on human evolution. Not a slow and gradual one, as is usually the case.
 
Celticguy said:
If you cant refute the science denegrate the author.
Click to expand...
He should be denigrated. Refuting him is easy. He completely ignores the fact that certain so called junk genes are the equivalent of start, stop switches in expressing how, when or even if an allele is expressed. That alleles in a genome unexpressed in one organism can be mutated during genetic crossover and be expressed by progeny or that environment factors can turn on an unexpressed mutation and even if you ignored that even if only 5% of alleles are available for mutation of expressed alleles that still represents millions of genes available for evolutionary changes over time.

If this is what the Discovery Institue call science they’re rank amateurs.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
I’d recommend starting with selective breeding of domesticated plants and animals as a starting point for understanding evolutionary theory. I’d then study phylogenetics and learn how homologies create phylogeny. Then of course genetics role in evolution (neo-Darwinism) and then study punctuated equilibrium as there are several fascinating examples of that occurring during hominid evolution. Otherwise you tend to get caught up in the anthropology, which is certainly understandable, fascinating in itself. You have a geology background so understanding environmental factors in human evolution will be no stretch.

A good example of why you want to study punctuated equilibrium is understanding why the discovery of fire had such a profound evolutionary impact that occurred at a historical scale of time and not a geological one. How discovering cooking meat and consuming denatured proteins had an almost immediate impact on human evolution. Not a slow and gradual one, as is usually the case.
Click to expand...

Cheers mate. Good points.
I have a video course on paleontology I am going to start with first, and then move onto my course on human evolution.

I only had the Intro Paleontology class in college, but that was three bloody decades ago, so it is time for some remedial work!

I recently saw a program on NOVA about the discovery of Homo naledi in that cave in South Africa. Incredible. That is the kind of shit that makes me want to be a paleoanthropologist in my next life!
 
Doesn't the empirical evidence include all those fossils?

In science theory is facts. Proven facts are strung together to explain something. It could be the facts are not arranged correctly or some are missing, but the theory consists only of facts.
 
Grugore said:
And theoretical evolutionists still reject the empirical data.
The theory of evution is dead. Time to bury it.
Click to expand...

Every human has 100 mutations. If 95% of our genetic code couldn't be evolved in any way, then we would be in some serious trouble.
 
NiftyNiblick said:
Canis Lupus and Canis Lupus Familiaris have demonstrably different DNA.
They also have different skull proportions.
Evey dog from a Chihuahua to a Mastiff has comparable skull proportions.
A wolf's skull is proportionately smaller in the frontal area.
It's true, however, that dog-wolf hybrids are inter-fertile unlike Lion-Tiger hybrids which themselves cannot reproduce,
so for that reason, I didn't use the best example possible. Eventually, they evolve into actual dogs.

But even if that wasn't the best example, there are so many other indicators of evolution that to deny it is merely to identify oneself
as an illogical buffoon, in your case manifested in the religious zealotry of an insane person.

You're a trumpanzee, Grugore. Just as a dog-wolf hybrid is neither wolf nor dog, you're not a human being.
You're a devolved trumpanzee mutant. And it's unlikely that any progeny you might have would ever approach humanity again.

That means that even if your ludicrous belief that humans were made in the image of God were actually true,
that still wouldn't include you. You're not human. You're a clump of biological garbage.
Live with it. Or preferably, don't.
Click to expand...

Uhh... Lions and tigers HAVE reproduced. They are called a liger. And they can also reproduce. Try to get your facts straight. It might save you some embarrassment.
 
NiftyNiblick said:
Canis Lupus and Canis Lupus Familiaris have demonstrably different DNA.
They also have different skull proportions.
Evey dog from a Chihuahua to a Mastiff has comparable skull proportions.
A wolf's skull is proportionately smaller in the frontal area.
It's true, however, that dog-wolf hybrids are inter-fertile unlike Lion-Tiger hybrids which themselves cannot reproduce,
so for that reason, I didn't use the best example possible. Eventually, they evolve into actual dogs.

But even if that wasn't the best example, there are so many other indicators of evolution that to deny it is merely to identify oneself
as an illogical buffoon, in your case manifested in the religious zealotry of an insane person.

You're a trumpanzee, Grugore. Just as a dog-wolf hybrid is neither wolf nor dog, you're not a human being.
You're a devolved trumpanzee mutant. And it's unlikely that any progeny you might have would ever approach humanity again.

That means that even if your ludicrous belief that humans were made in the image of God were actually true,
that still wouldn't include you. You're not human. You're a clump of biological garbage.
Live with it. Or preferably, don't.
Click to expand...

Uhh... Ligers, a lion tiger hybrid HAVE reproduced. Try to get your facts straight. It might save you some embarrassment.
 
I don't falsely use religion to back science

Quit Using scraps of science to pretend science backs your mythical beliefs


its just silly


Its faith


which means you believe without proof


science proves there is no evidence of any gods or monsters


why are you trying to destroy your faith ?


if science backs your myth some day it will no longer be religion

It will be science


see how that works

if a monster (say like nessy) is proven to exist it would no longer be a monster


it would be just a proven species


that is why no monsters exist get it


If science proves there is a guy somewhere in space who started life on earth it will turn out to be a scientist


get it


he or she will be fact not gods


so that is why religion hates science


proof of or no proof of


you cant prove your god is what you believe it is right now


hense the name faith


quit trying to destroy your own faith
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top