christiefan915
Catalyst
He looked and acted like people thought a president should. It was the greatest starring part ever in the life of a "B" actor. His act was more scripted than any other president's. IOW, people bought the acting, not the man.
This in a nutshell.....
- Thread starter Mott the Hoople
- Start date
He looked and acted like people thought a president should. It was the greatest starring part ever in the life of a "B" actor. His act was more scripted than any other president's. IOW, people bought the acting, not the man.
tekkychick
New member
Ok, I'll buy that. He did "act" the role well.
christiefan915
Catalyst
Minister of Truth
Practically Perfect
We give weapons to other nations all the time, and rarely do we get something tenable in return such as American hostages. When we sold weapons to China in the 90s, we accomplished far less.
Exactly. Thankyou very much.
I am just so surprised Simplefreak bought it, hook line and sinker.
We sell weapons for money. We are the largest arms dealer in the world.
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The Almighty
Nonsense. You deliberately implied that I had stated it was in recession. LMAO at 'growing economy'. Ask the 7.5% that were unemployed how great it was. Ask Americans who were paying double digit interest on their homes and credit cards how great that economy was. Ask them also how great double digit inflation was.
http://oregonstate.edu/cla/polisci/...pdf/gdp_current_real_per-capita_1789-2012.pdf
I credit Reagan for letting Volcker (the correct spelling) implement his plan. Volcker had previously attempted it under Carter, but when the inevitable downturn in short term growth began, Volcker suddenly reversed policy. I wonder what could have caused him to do that. The reelection campaign of a certain President? Volcker proved under Reagan he was willing to go the distance, yet he didn't under Carter. I wonder why.
Dear moron... do try reading what I wrote. I said quite clearly that the two inherited very different sets of problems. That is why I ignored you. Because you ignored the fact that I had already stated the same thing to Jarod. I didn't state that the solution was the same. I stated that the economy Reagan inherited was falling apart. The one that Obama inherited bottomed out a couple of months into his first term. Both were serious problems. Saying Obama inherited a far worse situation is debatable at best for you.
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The Almighty
I love how liberals always point to his acting career as if that has meaning with regards to his leadership. He also ran a union. He also ran CA. Pretending that he simply 'acted' the part of President just shows your bias against him. Obviously historians disagree with you.
christiefan915
Catalyst
Re: historians, argumentum ad populum. Remember the Peter Principle? reagan topped out at governor. He was simply incapable of running the nation.
As for the acting thing... when I go to the theater or movies, sometimes there's an actor who's so good at the part that when it's over I say he couldn't really be acting, he was so believable. With reagan it was the opposite. I never got the sense of a real individual behind the posing. It's like every moment of his life was stage-managed for the cameras, even the so-called informal family moments.
And yes I'm biased, extremely so. Not only because reagan was such a ninny but because so many people bought into style over substance and gave him two terms
reagan had an extremely simple mind IMO. He was not a deep and nuanced thinker. He had black and white views and that's not how the world works. For example he had the same rabid, unreasonable fear of commies that I see today in Muslim haters. Our country was never under any threat from a communist takeover but you wouldn't know it to hear reagan talk. And what about his part in the HUAC? The Hollywood black list? No different IMO from any of his other black and white stances. When he decided something was wrong, he didn't care who was hurt in his efforts to right the supposed wrong. And then lying about it, like he did in Iran-Contra.
It really sickens me to think anybody, historian or otherwise, could put this doofus in the presidential top ten. It doesn't say much for our country.
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Darla
Great post Christie.
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The Almighty
You base that on what?
you are certainly entitled to your opinion on the man.
LMAO... it was the cold war. The Soviets were trying to advance their agenda of communism at the same time we were doing the same with democracy. Pretending he had some unreasonable fear of their agenda is simply nonsense. Ever listen to Kennedy or Johnson talk about the Soviets? How about Truman or Ike? Know what that little war called Vietnam was about? Korea?
Also, if Reagan was so fearful of the commies and had such a black and white view... why did he work with Gorbachev?
Could you elaborate? Just so that we are on the same page. What part are you referring to? What did he do that you disagree with?
I would disagree with your assertion that he didn't care if people were hurt in righting a wrong. As for Iran Contra, while nothing ever directly linked him personally, I find it nonsense to think he didn't know. Same for other Presidents who let the buck stop somewhere below them and who have plausible deniability.
Yet you already stated you were biased. I think that causes you to ignore the good the man did and solely focus on his faults. He most certainly had them and most certainly made mistakes. But his good far outweighed them. He was a leader in every sense of the word.
christiefan915
Catalyst
Thanks. Twenty-odd years of a strong opinion made it easy to write!
Mott the Hoople
Sweet Jane
Not true. By exploiting Chinese slave labor we got cheap consumer electronics. It's immoral as hell but Hey! Who cares when you can get a wide screem plasma TV for under $500! Right?
christiefan915
Catalyst
I'll get back to your other points in a little bit but for now, what do you think he did that was so good?
That's actually a good chart showing that the ecnomy Obama inherited was worse than the economy Reagan inherited. Thanks. But using such a long time period really obscures the differences. So, like, here's real GDP (blue) and nominal GDP (red) from 1978 though January 1981. This is what Reagan inhereited:
And here's real GDP and nominal GDP from 2006 thorugh Janury 2009. This is what Obama inherited:
Which do you think is worse?
Also, too, I appreciate that you are now using the correct unemployment number of 7.5% (down from your original claim of 9.5%). Well, Obama inherited 7.6% unemployment which was rising and on an upward trajectory. And since you're really smart and know all about employment as a lagging indicator, you know full well that the employment effects of the Great Recession had hardly reached their peak at the time of Obama's inauguration.
You credit Reagan for doing nothing. I get it.
The economy Reagan inherited had problems, not doubt. But those problems were amendable to traditional policy solutions: increased interest rates on the monetary side and increased spending and tax cuts on the fiscal side. And those policy solutions were imlemented. For Obama, traditional monetary policy tools were not available as interest rated were already as zero. Hence, quantitative easing, which is better than nothing but a non-traditional tool for good reason. On the fiscal side, things were positive as the start but for now the government is cutting spending instead of increasing it, which is contraining growth. In the end, you've got a very big problem not amenable to traditional tools of monetary policy and fiscal policmakers doing the opposite of what they ought to be doing. I wonder why the economy sucks
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The Almighty
His strength of character and ability to communicate and relate to the populace was invaluable... in addition...
1) Taxes: Lowered the income tax brackets while eliminating many loopholes and deductions
2) Healthcare: introduced COBRA
3) Cold War: while there were many players involved in bringing the end, such as the Pope, Gorbachev, Thatcher, the Polish people and Reagan... it was ultimately Reagan and Gorbachev's willingness to work with each other that brought about the end. Reagan went against his party in doing so, which is one of the signs of his character that I admire.
4) Air traffic controllers strike, brought that to an end by firing them and temporarily replacing them with military personnel
5) Funded the Super Collider for research and development as well as supported the creation of the International space station
6) Let Volcker crush inflation by raising interest rates, even though this caused the recession in 81/82 and cost Reps in the mid term elections, it was the right call for the long term benefit of the nation
7) Economic boom, related to number six, the economy took off after being locked in a bear market for 16 years. With the exception of a brief recession in the early 90's, that economic boom continued into 2000.
8) Built back up our defense
What I didn't like:
1) War on Drugs
2) Defense spending... while he did need to rebuild defense (which I said was a pro), he also let it become the very problem Ike warned us about.
3) Deficit spending... while necessary in 81/82, he still allowed Congress to outspend every single year he was in office. (number 2 was a large part of that)
4) Star wars... while I admire his investments in scientific R&D, he over stepped on this.
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Darla
His strength of character and ability to communicate and relate to the populace was invaluable...
Strength of character is a meaningless phrase simply because it could mean anything. I don't know anything about his character that I admire. I don't know much about his character, and I don't think you do either. He sounds as if he was a very cold fish father, and that's about all I know.
His ability to communicate is what actors do. So that only supports Christie's point.
His ability to relate to the populace? Really? How so? I never felt as if he was relating to me. How did you feel he related to you?
Strength of character is a meaningless phrase simply because it could mean anything. I don't know anything about his character that I admire. I don't know much about his character, and I don't think you do either. He sounds as if he was a very cold fish father, and that's about all I know.
His ability to communicate is what actors do. So that only supports Christie's point.
His ability to relate to the populace? Really? How so? I never felt as if he was relating to me. How did you feel he related to you?
cawacko
Well-known member
Christie to ask you about one point you made (which is not to ignore or say everything you else you wrote was unimportant) regarding what you to believe his rabid and unreasonable fear of Communists. How would you compare Reagan to other Presidents (back to Truman)? I'm asking from the perspective of do you think they all had the same rabid unreasonable fear of Communists or did Reagan have more than others?