APP - This Labor Day: The Renewed Labor Movement?

I Love America said:
Actually that isn't true. Lots of businesses can survive without labor. There is automation and maybe they are mom and pop shops.

As for this so called strawman, why don't you go back and read post #9?

Did you not say that we don't understand that people are trying to raise families on these wages? What were you implying if not that their situation should dictate what they earn

This is why you are lucky I abstained from the "debate"
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I did exclude the self employed....and you can't automate everything....besides, even if you COULD automate everything...it would only exacerbate the problem of decent jobs.leaving and leaving only crappy ones....thereby hurting businesses and workers even more. People need incomes to buy business's goods and services....period.

We delayed the tipping point with easy credit using predatory practices...which only hurt us even more....more EXTRACTION. The only people easy credit helped was the banks. But that easy credit is no more...or at least severely curtailed.

What I was implying is that the big businesses and banking sector who created this mess and their shareholders are going to have to learn to live with a little bit less in the short term if we want to actually build this economy.
 
pisskop said:
I don't know for sure. But you don't either.

I presume they would have moved to greener pastures if they were interested in their family's income. You can't say these McDonald's employees are motivated to do better, because they would have at least made a horizontal movement if they had the ambition. Plenty of jobs pays more than minimal wages, even for entry-level.

The jobs are there, one must just reaaaaach out and take initiative instead of trying to elect others to do it for you.

'Fortune favors the bold, after all.
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You can presume all you want. That doesn't mean for a large segment of our country that there ate actually "greener pastures" to be had.
 
Steelplate said:
You can presume all you want. That doesn't mean for a large segment of our country that there ate actually "greener pastures" to be had.
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Waterbury, CT
http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=job&l=Waterbury,+CT&jt=fulltime
As of the 2010 census, the city had a total population of 110,366

Fountain, Co
http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=job&l=fountain,+co
As of the 2010 census, the city's population was 25,846

There are jobs. Some just don't look. This is just one site, and the internet listed ones at that.
 
Steelplate said:
I did exclude the self employed....and you can't automate everything....besides, even if you COULD automate everything...it would only exacerbate the problem of decent jobs.leaving and leaving only crappy ones....thereby hurting businesses and workers even more. People need incomes to buy business's goods and services....period.

We delayed the tipping point with easy credit using predatory practices...which only hurt us even more....more EXTRACTION. The only people easy credit helped was the banks. But that easy credit is no more...or at least severely curtailed.

What I was implying is that the big businesses and banking sector who created this mess and their shareholders are going to have to learn to live with a little bit less in the short term if we want to actually build this economy.
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Who gave you te moral authority to determine what others should and shouldn't live with?

Why do you think you are owed a living?
 
I Love America said:
Who gave you te moral authority to determine what others should and shouldn't live with?

Why do you think you are owed a living?
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Why do you think that others are "owed" a business and profit and everything that entails? Who gives you the.moral authority to decide that the workers of those businesses deserve less than it costs to live in this country? Hell, I'll make it even easier....who says.businessmen deserve to be wealthy?
 
pisskop said:
Waterbury, CT
http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=job&l=Waterbury,+CT&jt=fulltime
As of the 2010 census, the city had a total population of 110,366

Fountain, Co
http://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=job&l=fountain,+co
As of the 2010 census, the city's population was 25,846

There are jobs. Some just don't look. This is just one site, and the internet listed ones at that.
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There are on average...3.1 job applicants for every vacant position in America. Which has halved since Obama took office...it used to be 6 applicants for every vacancy.
 
Steelplate said:
Why do you think that others are "owed" a business and profit and everything that entails? Who gives you the.moral authority to decide that the workers of those businesses deserve less than it costs to live in this country? Hell, I'll make it even easier....who says.businessmen deserve to be wealthy?
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Where have I claimed what you just said? I never claimed any businessman deserves to be wealthy. That would imply that he deserves customers. He does not.

What he deserves is the right to his own property and to engage in free association without gobblement coercion to satisfy the conscience of busy bodies like you.

If you want to extract more money from your employer make yourself invaluable
 
I Love America said:
Where have I claimed what you just said? I never claimed any businessman deserves to be wealthy. That would imply that he deserves customers. He does not.

What he deserves is the right to his own property and to engage in free association without gobblement coercion to satisfy the conscience of busy bodies like you.

If you want to extract more money from your employer make yourself invaluable
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Or...demand more as a group. Welcome to labor/management.
 
Steelplate said:
Or...demand more as a group. Welcome to labor/management.
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Ahhh demand more as a group. Which implies that you aren't delivering enough value to your employer? So lets extort money from them.

That hasn't worked out so well for the businesses and in the end te workers you claim to support. It works out fabulously for union bosses and their democrat massas for whom they launder taxpayer dollars.

The worker? Not so much.

It is ironic. Those who leftists claim to care about end up worse off than if the leftists had just left them alone.
 
I Love America said:
Ahhh demand more as a group. Which implies that you aren't delivering enough value to your employer? So lets extort money from them.

That hasn't worked out so well for the businesses and in the end te workers you claim to support. It works out fabulously for union bosses and their democrat massas for whom they launder taxpayer dollars.

The worker? Not so much.

It is ironic. Those who leftists claim to care about end up worse off than if the leftists had just left them alone.
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No.. it implies that the employer isn't paying a fair day's wage for a fair day's work.
 
Steelplate said:
No.. it implies that the employer isn't paying a fair day's wage for a fair day's work.
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Isn't it clear ILA doesn't understand anything about labor/management negotiations? Isn't it clear he's brainwashed by the international corporatist propaganda and Limbaugh hate radio? His posts prove he's in favor of international corporate oligarchy, and trying to debate or even talk to him is useless.
So why even try?
 
Steelplate said:
No.. it implies that the employer isn't paying a fair day's wage for a fair day's work.
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If you don't think you are getting paid a fair wage for your abilities then change jobs. People do it all the time.

Nobody is forcing you to work there. People always think they are underpaid and the hardest worker at their company.

But it just isn't the case. You aren't owe anything, but sadly think you are.
 
Crashk said:
Isn't it clear ILA doesn't understand anything about labor/management negotiations? Isn't it clear he's brainwashed by the international corporatist propaganda and Limbaugh hate radio? His posts prove he's in favor of international corporate oligarchy, and trying to debate or even talk to him is useless.
So why even try?
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Your assumptions are false. I support free markets. I do not support rent seekers and crony capitalists.
 
My nephew is in his mid-30's and still works in fast food. He was an A-B student in high school. Why is he still in fast food? When in college he was more interested in smoking a little weed and seeing how many girls he could "get" than studying and fulfilling requirements, ended up pregnant and in a bad marriage...and the pattern has continued until recently when he seems to have settled down. Three marriages and 3 children later he is struggling.

He has been in the business for so long I told him to go to college and get a degree and try to get a management position since he knows the business so well now. But the bottom line is that he never should have wound up in his position ... And very likely wouldn't have if he'd have taken care of business and kept something in his pants when he was younger.

His case isn't the norm but it isn't unique either. Many people wind up where they wind up because of poor decisions made when they were young. Help these people all you can but teach the young people to do better.
 
leaningright said:
My nephew is in his mid-30's and still works in fast food. He was an A-B student in high school. Why is he still in fast food? When in college he was more interested in smoking a little weed and seeing how many girls he could "get" than studying and fulfilling requirements, ended up pregnant and in a bad marriage...and the pattern has continued until recently when he seems to have settled down. Three marriages and 3 children later he is struggling.

He has been in the business for so long I told him to go to college and get a degree and try to get a management position since he knows the business so well now. But the bottom line is that he never should have wound up in his position ... And very likely wouldn't have if he'd have taken care of business and kept something in his pants when he was younger.

His case isn't the norm but it isn't unique either. Many people wind up where they wind up because of poor decisions made when they were young. Help these people all you can but teach the young people to do better.
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Actually I think his case is more the norm than we would like
 
I Love America said:
Nope. Just free markets. People who lack marketable skills are usually anti free market
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Amazing....in the past there used to be this thing called ON THE JOB TRAINING....you know where employers actually hired a person without the skills to do the job, based on past employment history and.personal references....then trained them to do the job?

But now, they want you to go $25k in debt just to get an interview.

I bet all those high tech workers in China didn't have a degree to put iPhones together.
 
Steelplate said:
Amazing....in the past there used to be this thing called ON THE JOB TRAINING....you know where employers actually hired a person without the skills to do the job, based on past employment history and.personal references....then trained them to do the job?

But now, they want you to go $25k in debt just to get an interview.

I bet all those high tech workers in China didn't have a degree to put iPhones together.
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Do you think it was employers who pumped the notion of having to get a college degree? No, that was Big Education with the help of Big Gobblement. Big Gobblement took taxpayer money and laundered it to Big Education through the use of student loans. In return, Big Government got a nice indoctrinated populace that wasn't very educated.

Bottom line is if you let the free market work, it works. But, fancy shmancy know it alls (usually leftists) think they have all of the answers and want to tinker with society always in the name of helping the poor and less fortunate. Their plans always sound so grand and wonderful until the get into practice. They never work.

But, hey don't take my word for it. Just look around you. Whenever lefties cry for an increase in the minimum wage, those of us who understand economics tell you that you will increase the unemployment rate among the young and unskilled among us. Then of course it happens, but instead of blaming their faulty policies, the lefties just resort to their failed playbook and "blame the rich"

Rinse Wash and Repeat
 
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