Tolerance Goes Two Ways

DeMartMan

DeMartMan

New member
In a recent thread one person said to me that "Intelligent discussion is often not possible when politics are involved" I would add that when emotional issues are involved. For years Liberals have accused Conservatives of being close minded and intolerant, but just how is the Left? (Or should I say certain elements of the Left?)

Those who know me are aware that I oppose all forms of discrimination including that which is directed at gays. That does not change my religious believes on the subject and has gotten me into more than one argument over the subject of sin. Those who believe that there is nothing wrong with being gay are exercising a belief system just like those who believe it to be a sin. If I want someone to show tolerance for my belief system I feel that I must show tolerances for the belief systems of others. Sadly, this feeling is not shared.

Below is the video of Carrie Prejean on MSNBC.
[ame="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/30322011#30322011"]http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/30322011#30322011[/ame]

She had simply said that she believed that marriage should be between a man and a woman. This is a belief just like the gays believe that there is nothing wrong with them being able to marry, why is one belief okay while the other is not? It seems to me that some are quick to demand tolerance but slow to give it out. No, Miss Prejean, you do not have the right to believe as you would, oops then there is that first amendment thing. Out of the blue came revenge for anyone who should speak honestly (and I might add, respectfully) old pictures of Miss Prejean. She had this to say about it;

"I am a Christian, and I am a model," said Carrie Prejean in a statement released to the media. "Models pose for pictures, including lingerie and swimwear photos. Recently, photos taken of me as a teenager have been released surreptitiously to a tabloid Web site that openly mocks me for my Christian faith. I am not perfect, and I will never claim to be. But these attacks on me and others who speak in defense of traditional marriage are intolerant and offensive." Link​


It would seem to me that if we are going to be tolerant of all believes then that means we must be tolerant of those which oppose our own believes. It is one thing to would for equality and another thing to grain one group freedoms while taking them away from another group. Then again, these are just my opinions.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/apr/25/california-beauty-queen-anti-gay-marriage
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=95743
 
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Regarding "marriage" it's a word. Many marriage end in divorce. Is not that also against "one man one woman"?
I doubt anyone "chooses" to be homosexual. I think they are "born" that way. Studies of identical twins show 1 may be homosexual &1 hetrosexual, this brings up the subject of epigenetics. Or what turns some genes on or off. Why the difference as both have the same intro-uterian enviroment & same enviroment after birth?
 
nurcats said:
Regarding "marriage" it's a word. Many marriage end in divorce. Is not that also against "one man one woman"?
I doubt anyone "chooses" to be homosexual. I think they are "born" that way. Studies of identical twins show 1 may be homosexual &1 hetrosexual, this brings up the subject of epigenetics. Or what turns some genes on or off. Why the difference as both have the same intro-uterian enviroment & same enviroment after birth?
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First, it is good to see you.

Next, whether someone is born that way or whether it was that way from the foundations of Creation or whether it is a choice is all a matter of belief. My point is simply that respect is a two way street. To target someone who does not share in either side's belief system is to denounce the very concept of tolerance.
 
And the judge's belief system colored the way he voted. So the tolerance should extend to that as well?

Besides, this hoopla created by the contestant's answer is going to do far more for her than winning the contest would.
 
DeMartMan said:
She had simply said that she believed that marriage should be between a man and a woman. This is a belief just like the gays believe that there is nothing wrong with them being able to marry, why is one belief okay while the other is not?
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Just like my belief that blacks need to be bought and sold like property to do my bidding. It's just a belief. Why is your belief that they need to be free OK and my belief that they should be slaves not? Completely absurd.
 
Watermark said:
Just like my belief that blacks need to be bought and sold like property to do my bidding. It's just a belief. Why is your belief that they need to be free OK and my belief that they should be slaves not? Completely absurd.
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People believe a lot of absurd things, flat earth, little green men from outer space and on. A perceived absurdity by those out side of a believe does not nullify the rights of those holding such believes.
 
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What's the world coming to, eh?

I really don't think anyone is in a position to judge a contestant in a beauty pageant, least of all a beauty contest judge.
 
Mottleydude said:
For once, and probably the last time, I agree with you.
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What we must remember is that we cannot pigeon hole anyone. In my life I have known all types of people and one thing is a constant; each group has their good and their bad. Some gays are very tolerant and some very insecure, some just want to live their lives while others crave acceptance. Some people just want to hear their own opinions repeated back to them. This Gay blogger and Judge should not have asked the question if he could not handle the answer. As a Progressive I can say that many in the Liberal movement are losing their tolerance for those who do not share the same believes. I cannot change this blogger but I can try to be more tolerant of opposing opinions. The question is how many others will stand against intolerance? I would add that when we see intolerance that we must call it out, especially when we see it in ourselves.

aardvark_trunk_swaying_lg_nwm.gif
 
charver said:
What's the world coming to, eh?

I really don't think anyone is in a position to judge a contestant in a beauty pageant, least of all a beauty contest judge.
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Probably the only idea dumber than having a gay man as a judge in a womans beauty contest would have been to have had a cannibal as a judge.
 
DeMartMan said:
People believe a lot of absurd things, flat earth, little green men from outer space and on. A perceived absurdity by those out side of a believe does not nullify the rights of those holding such believes.
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Who has taken the California bimbos rights? Freedom of speech /= immunity from criticism.
 
Mottleydude said:
Probably the only idea dumber than having a gay man as a judge in a womans beauty contest would have been to have had a cannibal as a judge.
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What?

So you can't put a woman as a judge either? Only straight men who want to fuck her? That's sending out a loud, positive message for the beauty pageant, Mottley, and hopefully you can spread it loud and wide, because I will enjoy the death of modern beauty pageant sexist nonsense.
 
Good to see you.

nurcats said:
Regarding "marriage" it's a word. Many marriage end in divorce. Is not that also against "one man one woman"?
I doubt anyone "chooses" to be homosexual. I think they are "born" that way. Studies of identical twins show 1 may be homosexual &1 hetrosexual, this brings up the subject of epigenetics. Or what turns some genes on or off. Why the difference as both have the same intro-uterian enviroment & same enviroment after birth?
Click to expand...
 
Perez Hilton is an ass.

In that interview he says that he would appreciate if she left her politics (and religion) out of the answer. Well, excuse me Mr. Asshole Hilton, you introduced the politics into the question not her. Hilton is a moron and should never be allowed to act as a judge in such a competition again.

Immie
 
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DeMartMan said:
In a recent thread one person said to me that "Intelligent discussion is often not possible when politics are involved" I would add that when emotional issues are involved. For years Liberals have accused Conservatives of being close minded and intolerant, but just how is the Left? (Or should I say certain elements of the Left?)

Those who know me are aware that I oppose all forms of discrimination including that which is directed at gays. That does not change my religious believes on the subject and has gotten me into more than one argument over the subject of sin. Those who believe that there is nothing wrong with being gay are exercising a belief system just like those who believe it to be a sin. If I want someone to show tolerance for my belief system I feel that I must show tolerances for the belief systems of others. Sadly, this feeling is not shared.

Below is the video of Carrie Prejean on MSNBC.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/30322011#30322011

She had simply said that she believed that marriage should be between a man and a woman. This is a belief just like the gays believe that there is nothing wrong with them being able to marry, why is one belief okay while the other is not? It seems to me that some are quick to demand tolerance but slow to give it out. No, Miss Prejean, you do not have the right to believe as you would, oops then there is that first amendment thing. Out of the blue came revenge for anyone who should speak honestly (and I might add, respectfully) old pictures of Miss Prejean. She had this to say about it;

"I am a Christian, and I am a model," said Carrie Prejean in a statement released to the media. "Models pose for pictures, including lingerie and swimwear photos. Recently, photos taken of me as a teenager have been released surreptitiously to a tabloid Web site that openly mocks me for my Christian faith. I am not perfect, and I will never claim to be. But these attacks on me and others who speak in defense of traditional marriage are intolerant and offensive." Link​


It would seem to me that if we are going to be tolerant of all believes then that means we must be tolerant of those which oppose our own believes. It is one thing to would for equality and another thing to grain one group freedoms while taking them away from another group. Then again, these are just my opinions.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/apr/25/california-beauty-queen-anti-gay-marriage
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=95743
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It's not her belief that annoys me. It's the bolded part of her comment: "And you know what, I think in my country, in my family, I think that I believe that a marriage should be between a man and a woman."

She may speak for herself and her family but she doesn't speak for the country. Her words could have been better chosen but now she simply looks like the kind of narrow, intolerant conservative we hear so much from on RW radio and news sites.
 
DeMartMan said:
What we must remember is that we cannot pigeon hole anyone. In my life I have known all types of people and one thing is a constant; each group has their good and their bad. Some gays are very tolerant and some very insecure, some just want to live their lives while others crave acceptance. Some people just want to hear their own opinions repeated back to them. This Gay blogger and Judge should not have asked the question if he could not handle the answer. As a Progressive I can say that many in the Liberal movement are losing their tolerance for those who do not share the same believes. I cannot change this blogger but I can try to be more tolerant of opposing opinions. The question is how many others will stand against intolerance? I would add that when we see intolerance that we must call it out, especially when we see it in ourselves.

aardvark_trunk_swaying_lg_nwm.gif
Click to expand...

"This Gay blogger and Judge should not have asked the question if he could not handle the answer."

I think it goes both ways, she should have known her answer would be criticized by people who don't think as she does.

I wish pageant entrants wouldn't sound so clueless when they're asked questions about current events, and it doesn't apply only to Prejean. YouTube is full of their bloopers. They help contribute to the impression that Americans are dumb.
 
WinterBorn said:
And the judge's belief system colored the way he voted. So the tolerance should extend to that as well?

Besides, this hoopla created by the contestant's answer is going to do far more for her than winning the contest would.
Click to expand...

I think it was pretty arrogant of her to say that she would have won the contest if not for that question. After all, Perez Hilton wasn't the only judge. One of the other judges actually got death threats on her blog because she defended Hilton.
 
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