Top General Feared Trump's Hitler Moment

T. A. Gardner said:
Trump wasn't calling for nuking places left and right, and most of the time he was just a major troll and self-aggrandizing braggard. In any case, it doesn't give a US military general the right or legal authority to countermand his orders or keep information from him.
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Which orders did General Milley countermand? Not attack the Capitol? LOL
 
reagansghost said:
a lifer should already know all this shit.......but since the UCMJ isn't one of your strong points check this out, sarge

The military is a hierarchical organization. Some degree of obedience to the orders of superior officers is required for the organization to function. But those who serve in the U.S. military are not automatons, and they are not asked to surrender all independent moral judgment when they sign their enlistment papers. American servicemembers are defending a nation of laws, not of men. Their obligation to obey the orders of their superiors does not include orders that are palpably illegal.


https://warontherocks.com/2017/07/when-can-a-soldier-disobey-an-order/
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Maybe you should read your own link. Calley's orders were clearly illegal, 100% illegal. His men should have refused those orders. If any of them were unsure, they should have made a note of that, told other superiors in their chain of command like NCO's and such, etc., of their reservations. Calley knew the order he was given was wrong and he could have ignored it but he didn't.

That isn't the case here with Milley. Milley was an advisor to Trump, nothing more. He had no command authority, and his personal opinion of Trump is irrelevant. His personal judgement of Trump doesn't give him the authority to take command and withhold information from him. Doing so on his own volition is a violation of the UCMJ.
There was no case of Trump saying something like "Give me the nuke codes so I can start a war..." There was nothing like that. Milley just didn't like Trump's style and that's no reason to not do his job professionally. Milley was 100% wrong here and should be fired for it.
 
reagansghost said:
wrong, any officer or enlisted man has the right to refuse an order is they believe that order is illegal

you didn't know this?
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Not a "right", but a requirement. OTOH, they must face the consequences if they are wrong. Life is funny, eh?
 
T. A. Gardner said:
Maybe you should read your own link. Calley's orders were clearly illegal, 100% illegal. His men should have refused those orders. If any of them were unsure, they should have made a note of that, told other superiors in their chain of command like NCO's and such, etc., of their reservations. Calley knew the order he was given was wrong and he could have ignored it but he didn't.

That isn't the case here with Milley. Milley was an advisor to Trump, nothing more. He had no command authority, and his personal opinion of Trump is irrelevant. His personal judgement of Trump doesn't give him the authority to take command and withhold information from him. Doing so on his own volition is a violation of the UCMJ.
There was no case of Trump saying something like "Give me the nuke codes so I can start a war..." There was nothing like that. Milley just didn't like Trump's style and that's no reason to not do his job professionally. Milley was 100% wrong here and should be fired for it.
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Milley knew the entire Trump regime was a renegade outfit headed my a deranged lunatic.....he would have been breaking the law if he had enabled this criminal, and he knew it

I see you don't understand 'the deep state' lol
 
reagansghost said:
Milley knew the entire Trump regime was a renegade outfit headed my a deranged lunatic.....he would have been breaking the law if he had enabled this criminal, and he knew it

I see you don't understand 'the deep state' lol
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No he didn't, and that view is simply nothing short of deranged delusion.
 
reagansghost said:
excellent point
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I had a crewman attempt to use that line. He decided that dropping nuclear depth bombs was immoral/illegal but conventional ones with a 500lb HE warhead were okay. He was facing a court martial for Article 92 "Failure to Obey an Order or Regulation". Fortunately the Chief and AW1 successfully persuaded him that since we were only practicing with nukes he wasn't doing anything immoral.
 
reagansghost said:
if you don't already know Trump is a deranged lunatic, you may be one as well
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18eb20.jpg
 
T. A. Gardner said:
I think this article is a reasonable view on this. Milley has become too political rather than staying out of the fray. He needs to go for that reason.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/06/30/trump-milley-shouting-match-resign-497203
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Thanks for the link:

"“I think Gen. Milley has consistently tried to keep the military out of politics. I think these incidents are more reflective of the challenging political environment that he’s operating in rather than an indication that he’s changed his mind on anything,” said retired Gen. Joseph Dunford, Milley’s predecessor who served as Joint Chiefs chair under both Trump and former President Barack Obama, in a rare interview.

“Gen. Milley did all he can do to adapt to President Trump and appropriately serve the president,” Dunford continued. “Now, Gen. Milley is doing that for President Biden.”"
 
Dutch Uncle said:
I had a crewman attempt to use that line. He decided that dropping nuclear depth bombs was immoral/illegal but conventional ones with a 500lb HE warhead were okay. He was facing a court martial for Article 92 "Failure to Obey an Order or Regulation". Fortunately the Chief and AW1 successfully persuaded him that since we were only practicing with nukes he wasn't doing anything immoral.
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Like I said, you better be 150% sure the order is illegal before refusing because otherwise you are finished.
 
Dutch Uncle said:
I had a crewman attempt to use that line. He decided that dropping nuclear depth bombs was immoral/illegal but conventional ones with a 500lb HE warhead were okay. He was facing a court martial for Article 92 "Failure to Obey an Order or Regulation". Fortunately the Chief and AW1 successfully persuaded him that since we were only practicing with nukes he wasn't doing anything immoral.
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I do remember something about the Nuremburg trials, the Nazis tried to use the 'just following orders' defense.....not good enough when it's obvious you're preforming illegal acts............like nuking Iran (or anyone) because some Ayatollah pissed you off
 
reagansghost said:
a lifer should already know all this shit.......but since the UCMJ isn't one of your strong points check this out, sarge

The military is a hierarchical organization. Some degree of obedience to the orders of superior officers is required for the organization to function. But those who serve in the U.S. military are not automatons, and they are not asked to surrender all independent moral judgment when they sign their enlistment papers. American servicemembers are defending a nation of laws, not of men. Their obligation to obey the orders of their superiors does not include orders that are palpably illegal.


https://warontherocks.com/2017/07/when-can-a-soldier-disobey-an-order/
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Gardner was a drunken lifer scrounge in the Navy, that or he was the guy wearing leather who appeared in a video

 
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reagansghost said:
I do remember something about the Nuremburg trials, the Nazis tried to use the 'just following orders' defense.....not good enough when it's obvious you're preforming illegal acts............like nuking Iran (or anyone) because some Ayatollah pissed you off
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Agreed Nuremberg changed the rules as did My Lai.

https://www.thebalancecareers.com/military-orders-3332819
In United States v. Keenan, the accused (Keenan) was found guilty of murder after he obeyed an order to shoot and kill an elderly Vietnamese citizen. The Court of Military Appeals held that "the justification for acts done pursuant to orders does not exist if the order was of such a nature that a man of ordinary sense and understanding would know it to be illegal."....

...To Obey, or Not to Obey?
So, to obey, or not to obey? It depends on the order. Military members disobey orders at their own risk. They also obey orders at their own risk. An order to commit a crime is unlawful. An order to perform a military duty, no matter how dangerous, is lawful as long as it doesn't involve the commission of a crime.
 
Althea said:
trump is shitting himself, knowing that Conway's tell all is about to hit the presses.
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No doubt his staff is concerned. Trump himself is delusional so it's difficult to know what fantasies he's thinking about.
 
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