Sargent: Well, it’s interesting that you bring up the role of Congress here because some senior Democrats are trying to inject their voices into this and say take this document seriously. Karoline Leavitt had a tweet today where she said something like “the greatest president in all of human history,” “world historical figure,” “totally obliterated the nuclear program,” using exactly the language that Trump wants her to use and so forth. Representative Ted Lieu, who’s in the Democratic leadership, tweeted the following quote, “I highly recommend you read the assessment before you say or post anything else on this topic.” Now, Brad, how do you read that? That’s a serious Democrat trying to let the world know that the administration is gaslighting people about what this classified document really says, right? Lieu gets to read it.
Sargent: Yeah, that’s Ted Lieu trying to be a responsible adult, and he’s trying to do that by interacting [with] what is essentially a child. All credit to Karoline Leavitt, she got to where she is. I don’t know her beyond seeing her come into this role. She’s 27 years old. At 27 years old, I didn’t know a thing in this world, even though allegedly I was apparently a lawyer. I didn’t know a thing yet. At 27, you do not know enough to be the press secretary and certainly not to talk like this. But this is why she was hired. She is a true believer through and through. And we saw out of that first administration that going out there and just being a brazen fraud does not have any problems for you. Look no further than Sarah Huckabee Sanders—infamously went out there after James Comey was fired and said,
I’ve received texts and calls from FBI agents thanking me, and then when questioned about it under oath by Mueller said,
Oh yeah, I made that whole thing up. Cause this is what they’re instructed to do. If Karoline Leavitt, by any amazing coincidences, ultimately ever [ends up being] questioned about this under oath, I would bet you all the money in my pocket right now versus all the money in your pocket right now she’ll say,
I just ran off of talking points I was given, and I was told to make the president look good, and that she knew nothing beyond that.
Sargent: Well, just to close this out on some comic relief, I want to underscore how absurd all this is.
The New York Times reported that since Trump started to use the term “obliterated” to describe what his bombing did to Iran’s nuclear program, he has actually been monitoring other officials to be sure they’re using that exact language. And right on cue, Leavitt tweeted out a bunch of statements from numerous administration officials. And you know what? Every one of the statements had the word “obliterated” in it. Where do we go with something like this? How do you predict that this all unfolds from here on out, given the deeply cultlike nature of all this?
Moss: This becomes my concern going forward; no matter what comes out of these next three years, assuming we survive all this in one piece. Going forward, there’s going to be someone else other than Donald Trump as president. What becomes of the presidency, and what becomes of this constitutional republic itself going forward after what we’ve just dealt with for the last decade? We had a concept. However fringe, however strained it was, we had a concept of there are facts and there are opinions. And with Donald Trump, there is no such thing as facts. Everything is your own opinion. And my opinion is the only one that matters. And so if the next Democrat comes into office at some point, are they going to take up that mantle and just say,
I’m just going to play Trump’s game right back at the Republicans? And are we going to go down that path? That becomes my biggest concern. Not that Donald Trump’s going to become a dictator and initiate a coup; [it] is that what we have seen here is the basically the dawning of the dismantling of what was our constitutional republic. That it’ll slowly circle the drain. It’ll take more than our lifetime, no doubt, but that this was the golden age in a different sense to what Trump thinks, and we’re going to slowly start withering away because we have no such thing as facts anymore.
Sargent: There’s just no conception of the public good at all operating with any of these people. It’s all about Donald Trump, and anyone who tries to go out there and seek facts, like the free press is doing—trying to inform the public about whether a major operation by Donald Trump worked—that has to just be only about Trump as well, right? Only in a negative way. That to me is what we’re really seeing here. It’s an ethic that’s just deeply destructive to any understanding of governance as we should hope it should be.
Moss: Yeah, it comes out of this simple fact: Facts and truth are boring. Propaganda? Sexy and fun as hell. And you could outweigh and overcome boring facts every single day with sexy overdramatic propaganda. Look no further than Twitter. Look no further than the president’s use of social media to amazing political effect. Look no further than what’s going on on TikTok. It is so extremely boring to read the Mueller report. It is so much more fun to watch a 35-second video on TikTok.
Sargent: No question, although it really is interesting how incredibly damaging the facts that were put out in this report have been to Trump. There comes a point when all the TikToking and all the tweeting and all that stuff just breaks down in the face of reality.
Moss: And that’s where we are. And I honestly don’t know. I don’t know where we go from here. And I don’t think anyone truly does have a sense of, Do we find a way back to it? And we’re going to have to just hold onto the rails for the next three years, try to get through this and then see what comes on the other side.
Sargent: Bradley Moss, thank you so much for creeping out of the bowels of the deep state to talk to us, man. It was super illuminating. We really appreciate your time.
Moss: From my undisclosed location.
Sargent: Good to talk to you, Brad.
Moss: Take it easy.
As Pete Hegseth and other loyalists rage at tough reporting on Trump’s Iran bombing, a veteran national security lawyer separates truth from lies and warns that MAGA’s propaganda on this will get worse.
newrepublic.com