Trump Is To Blame For Innocent Airliner Deaths And Trashed Credibility Of USA.

[Into the Night]

Yes, now we have the burden of arguing there will never be another Trump every time we try and make an agreement with a foreign country.
There is a cost to that. Our terms will diminish in each next delicate or complex agreement or treaty because our track record on keeping or word will be a negotiating point for them on the bullet list
which will be paid for in dollars or adverse terms.

Why are most people so short sighted?

No, that would be YOU. Inversion fallacy. Trump has already made several successful treaties.

 

[Into the Night]

Hello Darth,



a) They would have done the proxies anyway, b) It was their money in the first place, and c) We made a deal. We have to abide by the deal we made. Anybody with a basic understanding of honor and reputation knows that.

Everybody signed it. It took years of negotiations to get to an agreement. There is no takeover on that. That clock cannot be reset to zero. We got the best deal that everybody could agree to. It wasn't easy. Trump has no idea what he's talking about. If it was as easy as Trump thought we would have had a better deal a long time ago. We got the deal that we could get. Period. And it was better than not getting a deal. That took lots of high level diplomacy to get that. Trump threw away the work of millions of dollars of US effort to get that deal. Not to mention all that every nation spent on continuing those talks for all the years it took. Six nations. All that work down the drain because of Trump. What a foolish thing to do.



It's amazing anybody believes that what Trump has done has been a good thing. It screwed up years of careful work by high level diplomats who spent their careers learning their craft. Trump was a wrecking ball to all that work, and btw decimated the State Department in the act. A lot of valuable experience was thrown away. Good people got fired. That threw away decades of experience and valuable personal contacts which are irreplaceable. Trump destroyed all of that, and doing so was definitely our loss. That's why it is amazing anybody in the know thinks that is a good thing. To think so would be to flatly deny reality.

Iran thinks WE are the terrorists, OK? Trying to get a terrorism agreement as a part of the Nuke deal was a non starter. If the US tried to put that in there, Iran would simply not sign it. That was left for another time. We were able to negotiate with the sanctions which were already applied. We give some of that up, they give up building nuclear weapons, and they allow IAEA inspections to make sure they're abiding by the agreement. If we tried to get them to agree that they are terrorists, and to stop it, they would not have signed. Only a fool would expect them to have signed off on that when they said they would not sign that. Unless the terrorism thing was off the table there were no talks and no deal. We got a deal. We had peace. Trump threw it away. We just came to the brink of war. Stupid.

And all those people on that airliner never needed to die. Incredibly stupid. Only a mind in denial of basic morals would think that was a good thing or worth it. Or think it is all done after a few missiles hit some sand. Soleimani has been turned into a martyr. His name will be shrieked by every suicide terrorist in the moment prior to the explosion. We can thank Trump in advance for that. Stupid.

There is no such thing as an 'expert' diplomat. Iran broke the treaty, not Trump.

 

[Into the Night]

He should be impeached just for the way he botched relations with Iran.

He didn't. Besides, botching relations is not an impeachable offense. It is not a crime.

I refuse to believe most Americans are happy with what Trump has done with Iran.

That's YOUR problem.

We had peace

Nope. Iran was attacking its neighbors and openly declared war on the U.S. and Israel.

and we had a deal

Nope. Iran was building nukes. They violated the treaty.

and Iran was prevented from building nukes.

Nope. Iran was building nukes.

All gone.

Never was. Iran broke the treaty before the ink was dry.

Now we have no deal, brink of war, and Iran is now building nukes.

What rock have you been hiding under?

What a big screw up Trump's idea turned out to be.

Trump didn't break any treaty.

 

[anatta]

This thread was inevitable.

Somebody had to come out and say it.

Trump got those people killed.

uh huh. no mention of the Shi'a militias killing an American when they rocketed the base? figures

 

[anatta]

He should be impeached just for the way he botched relations with Iran.

I refuse to believe most Americans are happy with what Trump has done with Iran.

We had peace and we had a deal and Iran was prevented from building nukes. All gone. Now we have no deal, brink of war, and Iran is now building nukes. What a big screw up Trump's idea turned out to be.

many times you are not reality based

 

[Darth Omar]

Hello Darth,



a) They would have done the proxies anyway, b) It was their money in the first place, and c) We made a deal. We have to abide by the deal we made. Anybody with a basic understanding of honor and reputation knows that.

Everybody signed it. It took years of negotiations to get to an agreement. There is no takeover on that. That clock cannot be reset to zero. We got the best deal that everybody could agree to. It wasn't easy. Trump has no idea what he's talking about. If it was as easy as Trump thought we would have had a better deal a long time ago. We got the deal that we could get. Period. And it was better than not getting a deal. That took lots of high level diplomacy to get that. Trump threw away the work of millions of dollars of US effort to get that deal. Not to mention all that every nation spent on continuing those talks for all the years it took. Six nations. All that work down the drain because of Trump. What a foolish thing to do.



It's amazing anybody believes that what Trump has done has been a good thing. It screwed up years of careful work by high level diplomats who spent their careers learning their craft. Trump was a wrecking ball to all that work, and btw decimated the State Department in the act. A lot of valuable experience was thrown away. Good people got fired. That threw away decades of experience and valuable personal contacts which are irreplaceable. Trump destroyed all of that, and doing so was definitely our loss. That's why it is amazing anybody in the know thinks that is a good thing. To think so would be to flatly deny reality.

Iran thinks WE are the terrorists, OK? Trying to get a terrorism agreement as a part of the Nuke deal was a non starter. If the US tried to put that in there, Iran would simply not sign it. That was left for another time. We were able to negotiate with the sanctions which were already applied. We give some of that up, they give up building nuclear weapons, and they allow IAEA inspections to make sure they're abiding by the agreement. If we tried to get them to agree that they are terrorists, and to stop it, they would not have signed. Only a fool would expect them to have signed off on that when they said they would not sign that. Unless the terrorism thing was off the table there were no talks and no deal. We got a deal. We had peace. Trump threw it away. We just came to the brink of war. Stupid.

And all those people on that airliner never needed to die. Incredibly stupid. Only a mind in denial of basic morals would think that was a good thing or worth it. Or think it is all done after a few missiles hit some sand. Soleimani has been turned into a martyr. His name will be shrieked by every suicide terrorist in the moment prior to the explosion. We can thank Trump in advance for that. Stupid.

Those people in the airliner died at the hands of Iranians. Period.

Regardless of whose money it was, when the Iranians obtained it, it went to fund their proxy wars and terrorism. Period.

The mullahs are dangerous religious fanatics with a dangerous vision and they will lie and scheme to achieve it. Period.

 

[Adolf_Twitler]

There are plenty of things one could legitimately and directly blame Donald Trump for in this world without, TAKING A PLAY out of the REPUBLICAN PLAYBOOK and accuse a president of something he is not directly responsible for.

The shooting down of the airliner is a sign that the Iranians have a larger issue to deal with- The unsophistication of their military to be able to detect SHIT FROM SHINOLA!


I am not saying that the US military has never made a mistake- but so far, we have never shot down a Commercial Jet with hundreds of innocent people on board.

 

[Nordberg]

Iran ended their nuclear program. They signed the treaty and they were being inspected regularly.
The irony is Trump asked the very same countries that made the last agreement to make a new one. Why should they. At least while Trump is in power, an international agreement is ridiculous. He thinks he can unilaterally walk out of a deal. It is a lot of time and trouble doing a deal like that. The last one was sbout 10 years in the making. It was one day in the ending.
I can see no way that they will trust Trump.

 

[Getin the ring]

Iran ended their nuclear program. They signed the treaty and they were being inspected regularly.
The irony is Trump asked the very same countries that made the last agreement to make a new one. Why should they. At least while Trump is in power, an international agreement is ridiculous. He thinks he can unilaterally walk out of a deal. It is a lot of time and trouble doing a deal like that. The last one was sbout 10 years in the making. It was one day in the ending.
I can see no way that they will trust Trump.

so you don't read much? cool

 

[Earl]

He didn't. Besides, botching relations is not an impeachable offense. It is not a crime.

That's YOUR problem.

Nope. Iran was attacking its neighbors and openly declared war on the U.S. and Israel.

Nope. Iran was building nukes. They violated the treaty.

Nope. Iran was building nukes.

Never was. Iran broke the treaty before the ink was dry.

What rock have you been hiding under?

Trump didn't break any treaty.

Nice refutation of everything that PoliTalker posted.

 

[Earl]

There are no inspections of military bases in Iran.

Is there anyone on the planet who believes that the money given to Iran by Obama and Kerry was not used to spread more terrorism?

Anyone?

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Adolf_Twitler,

There are plenty of things one could legitimately and directly blame Donald Trump for in this world without, TAKING A PLAY out of the REPUBLICAN PLAYBOOK and accuse a president of something he is not directly responsible for.

The shooting down of the airliner is a sign that the Iranians have a larger issue to deal with- The unsophistication of their military to be able to detect SHIT FROM SHINOLA!


I am not saying that the US military has never made a mistake- but so far, we have never shot down a Commercial Jet with hundreds of innocent people on board.

Wrong. We did it too. Iranian Air Flight 655 was shot down by the Vincennes, loss of 290 civilians. The Vincennes made the determination it was a commercial airliner but decided it was some kind of deception:

Mistake?

Best policy is diplomacy and stay as far away from war/hostilities as possible.

The Iran nuke deal was all we could get. We were lucky to have it. They think we are the terrorists. Trump threw away the precious deal. Stupid X3.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Nordberg,

Iran ended their nuclear program. They signed the treaty and they were being inspected regularly.
The irony is Trump asked the very same countries that made the last agreement to make a new one. Why should they. At least while Trump is in power, an international agreement is ridiculous. He thinks he can unilaterally walk out of a deal. It is a lot of time and trouble doing a deal like that. The last one was sbout 10 years in the making. It was one day in the ending.
I can see no way that they will trust Trump.

Why should any country ever make an agreement with the USA ever again?

We go back on our deals. That doesn't make us great. It makes us untrustworthy.

Why shouldn't Iranian terrorists target 290 US cultural sites, one for every passenger on Iran Air flight 655?

Maybe because we paid them off, $65 million for it, to drop their case in the international courts.

 

[Adolf_Twitler]

Hello Adolf_Twitler,



Wrong. We did it too. Iranian Air Flight 655 was shot down by the Vincennes, loss of 290 civilians. The Vincennes made the determination it was a commercial airliner but decided it was some kind of deception:

Mistake?

Best policy is diplomacy and stay as far away from war/hostilities as possible.

The Iran nuke deal was all we could get. We were lucky to have it. They think we are the terrorists. Trump threw away the precious deal. Stupid X3.

Nice catch! You get an A for history.

OK, so the US has fucked up- the Iranians fucked up!

Sounds like a draw- and more proof that to be human- is to err!

But let me ask you this- When the Iranian Jetliner was shot down by the US MILITARY- DID ANYONE BLAME OUR PRESIDENT FOR IT?

 

[Into the Night]

Iran ended their nuclear program.

They never did. They broke the treaty even before the ink was dry.

They signed the treaty and they were being inspected regularly.

Which is why we know they never ended their nuclear program. Iran signed a treaty they had no intention of keeping.

The irony is Trump asked the very same countries that made the last agreement to make a new one. Why should they. At least while Trump is in power, an international agreement is ridiculous. He thinks he can unilaterally walk out of a deal. It is a lot of time and trouble doing a deal like that. The last one was sbout 10 years in the making. It was one day in the ending.

There is no treaty. Iran broke it many years ago.

I can see no way that they will trust Trump.

That was a given even before you started posting.

 

[Into the Night]

Hello Adolf_Twitler,



Wrong. We did it too. Iranian Air Flight 655 was shot down by the Vincennes, loss of 290 civilians. The Vincennes made the determination it was a commercial airliner but decided it was some kind of deception:

Mistake?

Best policy is diplomacy and stay as far away from war/hostilities as possible.

The Iran nuke deal was all we could get. We were lucky to have it. They think we are the terrorists. Trump threw away the precious deal. Stupid X3.

No. We have no treaty with Iran since Iran broke the treaty by making nukes and attacking its neighbors.

 

[Grokmaster]

He never should have gone back on our word by pulling out of the Iran Nuclear Deal.

You don't prevent somebody from building nukes by forcing them to do it.

And you don't build national credibility by going back on your word.

HOW IS TRUMP RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR BELOVED TERRORIST REGIME FIRING THE MISSILE OBAMA BOUGHT THEM??? DIPSHIT.


YOU DON'T GET TERORRIST REGIMES TO DO ANYTHING BY GRABBING YOUR ANKLES, TREASON-O-CRAT....

 

[Into the Night]

Why should any country ever make an agreement with the USA ever again?

We already have made several under Trump, including the renegotiated North American Free Trade agreement, and China coming to the table at long last to negotiate fair trade.

We go back on our deals. That doesn't make us great. It makes us untrustworthy.

Trump has not gone back on any deal other than the Paris Agreement, which he didn't make. It was a correct decision.

Why shouldn't Iranian terrorists target 290 US cultural sites,

They already have.

one for every passenger on Iran Air flight 655?

Because they shot down their own airliner???

Maybe because we paid them off, $65 million for it, to drop their case in the international courts.

There is no such court.

 

[ThatOwlWoman]

Such hate....how sad you're unable to control it....

I've noticed over the last ten years that whenever you accuse someone else of hate, it's a self-assessment rather than truth. Get help.

 

[PoliTalker]

Hello Adolf_Twitler,

Nice catch! You get an A for history.

OK, so the US has fucked up- the Iranians fucked up!

Sounds like a draw- and more proof that to be human- is to err!

But let me ask you this- When the Iranian Jetliner was shot down by the US MILITARY- DID ANYONE BLAME OUR PRESIDENT FOR IT?

Iran did. There was no official apology or admission of guilt but Reagan did write a diplomatic 'sorry' note to Iran expressing deep regret. It was a different situation. Very tense during the Iran/Iraq war. All ships had to squeeze into the narrow Straits of Hormuz and pass through Iranian waters to navigate the Gulf of Oman, which is a strategic oil shipping lane protected by US warships. The Vincennes mixed it up with some Iranian gunboats and imagined they were under air attack because Iranian military F14s use the same airport as the commercial airliners do. That was where flight 655 originated.