Understanding Socialism

Who will decide which stocks people can invest in? Do you know anything about stocks? Let's say a person starts contributing at 25 years old. 10% of his $50,0000/yr salary; $5,000/yr

To dumb this down let's say his salary stays the same for the next 20 years so at 45, 20 years later, he has $100,000 + interest. Now he decides to invest in an OTC stock. In goes his hundred grand and a week later it's worth $5,000. Do you have any idea how many people lose money on the stock market?

Or the government chooses which companies one can invest in. Imagine all the companies that would move their Head Office to Chicago. :lol:

Then there's the government bureaucracy. How many government employees are going to be needed to check everybody's individual investments unless the government has a specific list of companies in which one can invest in which case the government would then have the power to promote certain companies. The new Wall Street would be Lasalle Street.

Think, man. Think.

Wow you're dim. The government wouldn't have to be involved at all. They certainly shouldn't be choosing stocks.

To protect your hypothetical dim-wit from throwing his money away, you could require that no more than 10% of his portfolio be vested in any single entity.
 
how cute....you first started out by stating it will be their own money.....as if they willingly give up their money to fund this program....

i can't even believe you are claiming that our taxes will not fund the government insurance program.....you miss the part about the penalties...

further....and i really can't believe you don't see this....if it is so voluntarily, and if the people who NEED it have to BUY into it.....(then you admit that it will be taxed by the "super" wealthy).....why can't they get it now?

why is it they need a government run insurance? and you still haven't explained how a government run insurance is not socialist....

You're not making any sense. Either you're painfully stupid or trying to ignore what I said.

People who can't afford insurance and have to buy into an insurance policy will get subsidies to do so. They don't even have to buy the public insurance option with their subsidies, they just have to buy from the exchange which includes private insurers.

It's in the bills. The public insurance option program has to be self sufficient. The new bureaucracy that is created can't be bailed out. That's the way it's written.

The money everyone is complaining about is the subsidies that need to be given to people so they can buy their insurance.
 
The very best way to debate an asshole.....it works so damn good....lol

This message is hidden because ib1yysguy is on your ignore list.
 
You're right... We should all embrace and welcome something inferior! Not only that, but we should all be willing to open our wallets and pay out the ass for something inferior! While we're at it, we should just cede all our rights back to the government, because we are too stupid and ignorant to ever make decisions on our own, and the government is much better at handling our money and our health! What the fuck could we possibly be thinking?

The government option would have been an OPTION. Do you know what "option" means? The insurance companies and others didn't want the people to have an option.
 
Wow you're dim. The government wouldn't have to be involved at all. They certainly shouldn't be choosing stocks.

To protect your hypothetical dim-wit from throwing his money away, you could require that no more than 10% of his portfolio be vested in any single entity.

Entity? Do you mean any single stock or are you classifying all stocks as one entity?
 
Entity? Do you mean any single stock or are you classifying all stocks as one entity?
I would say any one classification of stocks. A diverse portfolio is key to reducing risk.

Social Security, by the way, is vested in a single entity: The US government. That seems very risky in comparison.
 
Whoa dude- too much with the "dialecticism" there. Socialism is more government control then as envisioned by the Founders. It's that simple.

Well if they "dialectualize" it to death you might believe this country is going some other direction than socialism.

It isn't.

The average American citizen is so woefully ignorant and uninvolved in what's happening to this country they are satisified with being led over the side of the cliff, wagging their tails behind them...

Can you say "Baaaahh"?
 
I would say any one classification of stocks. A diverse portfolio is key to reducing risk.

Social Security, by the way, is vested in a single entity: The US government. That seems very risky in comparison.

There being thousands of stocks do you really believe the average person knows how to research a company? Do you think they would follow the daily progress/news?

People don't even take their car in for the regular oil change!

Besides, it's the usually the poor, uneducated who benefit from/require SS. They are the last folks who would make wise investments.
 
Well if they "dialectualize" it to death you might believe this country is going some other direction than socialism.

It isn't.

The average American citizen is so woefully ignorant and uninvolved in what's happening to this country they are satisified with being led over the side of the cliff, wagging their tails behind them...

Can you say "Baaaahh"?

Or due to greater access to information they are learning how citizens in other countries are benefiting from government programs; everything from universal medical to subsidized day care.
 
Or due to greater access to information they are learning how citizens in other countries are benefiting from government programs; everything from universal medical to subsidized day care.

Yes, fortunately we have greater access, like finding out the costs of healthcare crisis's in other countries, take France for example.That's a real eye-opener.
 
In that case the people won't buy the government plan.

That's the hypocrisy of the insurance companies and other medical personnel who bad-mouth a government plan. "It's no good." "The people won't like it." "It's inferior." Blah, blah, blah.

Wouldn't all businesses want inferior competition? They should be pushing for a government plan. The people will see it's a complete failure and the insurance companies will look even better.

Hmmm, something doesn't add up. Fighting tooth and nail against something everyone knows will be inferior.

What's wrong with that picture?


So I guess that was an admission, on your part, that the Government Plan isn't all that great. :good4u:

Thanks for playing. :palm:
 
Yes, fortunately we have greater access, like finding out the costs of healthcare crisis's in other countries, take France for example.That's a real eye-opener.

Yes, it is an eye-opener.

(article)The French can choose their doctors and see any specialist they want. Doctors in France, many of whom are self- employed, are free to prescribe any care they deem medically necessary.(end)

That puts an end to the old, tired, worn-out argument that government medical will result in government interference regarding doctor and patient.

(article)France's infant death rate is 3.9 per 1,000 live births, compared with 7 in the U.S., and average life expectancy is 79.4 years, two years more than in the U.S. The country has far more hospital beds and doctors per capita than America, and far lower rates of death from diabetes and heart disease. The difference in deaths from respiratory disease, an often preventable form of mortality, is particularly striking: 31.2 per 100,000 people in France, vs. 61.5 per 100,000 in the U.S.(end)

That puts an end to the old, tired, worn-out argument that government medical is inferior.

(article)Like every other nation, France is wrestling with runaway health-care inflation…….(however) France spends just 10.7% of its gross domestic product on health care, while the U.S. lays out 16%, more than any other nation.(end)

That puts an end to old, tired, worn-out argument that government medical is a money pit.

(article)…the french system is much more generous to its entire population than the U.S. is to its seniors. Unlike with Medicare, there are no deductibles, just modest co- payments that are dismissed for the chronically ill.

In France, the sicker you get, the less you pay. Chronic diseases, such as diabetes, and critical surgeries, such as a coronary bypass, are reimbursed at 100%. Cancer patients are treated free of charge. Patients suffering from colon cancer, for instance, can receive Genentech Inc.'s (DNA ) Avastin without charge. In the U.S., a patient may pay $48,000 a year.(end)

Another example that puts an end to the old, tired, worn-out argument that government medical is inferior.

(article)But France isn't likely to make major changes to a system most citizens say they like. Why would they? Says Shanny Peer, policy director at the independent French-American Foundation: "France gets better results for less money and everyone is covered."(end)
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/07_28/b4042070.htm

And that buries all the other old, tired, worn-out, contrived, deliberately misleading, deceptive, fallacious arguments that are continually thrown out against government medical. There is no downside except for the few greedy folks currently padding their wallet off the misery of others.

Better results for less money and everyone is covered.

There is no counter argument but you're still a sweety. :)
 
There being thousands of stocks do you really believe the average person knows how to research a company? Do you think they would follow the daily progress/news?

People don't even take their car in for the regular oil change!

Besides, it's the usually the poor, uneducated who benefit from/require SS. They are the last folks who would make wise investments.

That's why we have financial advisers, and they charge a small fee based on your portfolio size. You must want the poor to stay that way.

The reality is, Democrats do want the poor to be poor. They will always be useful during election day as they promise them more entitlements in exchange for any chance of escaping poverty.
 
So I guess that was an admission, on your part, that the Government Plan isn't all that great. :good4u:

Thanks for playing. :palm:

You have cleared up one thing. Now I understand why there are folks against government medical. With limited comprehension skills something like changes to medical services must be completely overwhelming.

I suppose that's why the Dems just want to go ahead and push the bill through. They realize the futility in debating such folks.
 
That's why we have financial advisers, and they charge a small fee based on your portfolio size. You must want the poor to stay that way.

The reality is, Democrats do want the poor to be poor. They will always be useful during election day as they promise them more entitlements in exchange for any chance of escaping poverty.

Financial advisors are paid on the number of trades they make with your money. Whether or not you make money makes no difference.

Again, research is the key. Financial Advisers from well established companies and banks either make the trades themselves or are in cahoots with those who do.

Personally, I do not have a Financial Adviser. One reason is my wife is a Chartered Accountant and she saved me a few $$$ the first year we met and continues to do so.

The second reason is 15 years ago I went to an employer sponsored investment seminar. While my previous co-workers have lost a significant amount of money due to the financial crisis I did quite well in my Real Estate ventures.

I wouldn't trust a Financial Adviser. Look at the people Madoff scammed. Not exactly uneducated, naive folks.

I've seen numerous reports of people having lost a large portion of their life savings through Financial Advisers.

There was a time when people had the opportunity to invest themselves. In fact, from the beginning of time until SS came about everyone had the opportunity to prepare for their old age and, unfortunately, many didn't. That's why there is SS. We know the alternative. Mankind experienced it for thousands and thousands and thousands of years.

It's all there in the history books.
 
Financial advisors are paid on the number of trades they make with your money. Whether or not you make money makes no difference. ...
That's not an adviser but a broker. An adviser charges a flat fee per year, and are therefore not intent on you making trades and have no incentive to steer you towards any particular investment vehicle. The best ones will also do your taxes, recommend levels of insurance, recommend a level of liquidity, and balance your portfolio on proven formulas that take into account your aversion to risk, your financial goals and how close you are to retirement.
 
You have cleared up one thing. Now I understand why there are folks against government medical. With limited comprehension skills something like changes to medical services must be completely overwhelming.

I suppose that's why the Dems just want to go ahead and push the bill through. They realize the futility in debating such folks.

I don't know of one person who thinks we don't need healthcare reform. We do, but the Dems have dug their own graves trying to rush this one through, as if they are saying We know better than you, dummies. Far from it.
 
You have cleared up one thing. Now I understand why there are folks against government medical. With limited comprehension skills something like changes to medical services must be completely overwhelming.

I suppose that's why the Dems just want to go ahead and push the bill through. They realize the futility in debating such folks.

What you really need to understand is the opening post of this thread. There are people who favor letting the government make their choices and control their liberty and freedom, in return for taking care of their needs. They don't have faith in capitalist free market systems, they fear capitalist greed will result in unfairness to someone along the way, and this is reason enough to oppose capitalism.

The Socialist promise is too tempting to resist for people who feel this way. It all makes sense, seems like it would be the most fair way to do things, solves all the problems of inequity because we all have the same thing. In your minds, this 'equalness' is the ultimate goal, because it is what you consider "fair" to everyone. The problem is, you've given up freedom and liberty, and there is no catalyst for motivation. Man doesn't succeed without motivation, it just doesn't happen. If there is no compelling reason to strive for success and prosperity, man becomes mired in despair and hopelessness, and the socialist system ultimately crumbles.
 
Yes, it is an eye-opener.

(article)The French can choose their doctors and see any specialist they want. Doctors in France, many of whom are self- employed, are free to prescribe any care they deem medically necessary.(end)

That puts an end to the old, tired, worn-out argument that government medical will result in government interference regarding doctor and patient.

(article)France's infant death rate is 3.9 per 1,000 live births, compared with 7 in the U.S., and average life expectancy is 79.4 years, two years more than in the U.S. The country has far more hospital beds and doctors per capita than America, and far lower rates of death from diabetes and heart disease. The difference in deaths from respiratory disease, an often preventable form of mortality, is particularly striking: 31.2 per 100,000 people in France, vs. 61.5 per 100,000 in the U.S.(end)

That puts an end to the old, tired, worn-out argument that government medical is inferior.

(article)Like every other nation, France is wrestling with runaway health-care inflation…….(however) France spends just 10.7% of its gross domestic product on health care, while the U.S. lays out 16%, more than any other nation.(end)

That puts an end to old, tired, worn-out argument that government medical is a money pit.

(article)…the french system is much more generous to its entire population than the U.S. is to its seniors. Unlike with Medicare, there are no deductibles, just modest co- payments that are dismissed for the chronically ill.

In France, the sicker you get, the less you pay. Chronic diseases, such as diabetes, and critical surgeries, such as a coronary bypass, are reimbursed at 100%. Cancer patients are treated free of charge. Patients suffering from colon cancer, for instance, can receive Genentech Inc.'s (DNA ) Avastin without charge. In the U.S., a patient may pay $48,000 a year.(end)

Another example that puts an end to the old, tired, worn-out argument that government medical is inferior.

(article)But France isn't likely to make major changes to a system most citizens say they like. Why would they? Says Shanny Peer, policy director at the independent French-American Foundation: "France gets better results for less money and everyone is covered."(end)
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/07_28/b4042070.htm

And that buries all the other old, tired, worn-out, contrived, deliberately misleading, deceptive, fallacious arguments that are continually thrown out against government medical. There is no downside except for the few greedy folks currently padding their wallet off the misery of others.

Better results for less money and everyone is covered.

There is no counter argument but you're still a sweety. :)

If the system in France is so fantastic; then why do they exclude premature births, that result in the baby dying, from their totals??
 
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