US automakers labor costs

[Cancel 2016.2]

"Or did not management past agree to pay for helathcare , retirement and the high wages ?"

well then... you should have NO problem then when current management corrects those mistakes. I am glad you agree.

 

[Cypress]

Beginning Universal Health Care before an overhaul of the system only transfers the exceedingly high cost and does nothing to improve the system. We'd still be paying those high costs, it would just be another payroll tax added to the mix.

"Beginning Universal Health Care before an overhaul of the system only transfers the exceedingly high cost and does nothing to improve the system."

We spend more per capita than other advance nations, yet we don't even cover all our citizens:

Health Care Spending and Use of Information Technology in OECD Countries

U.S. health spending per capita significantly and consistently outpaces that of other industrialized nations. One proposal for lowering health spending and improving quality is the adoption of health information technology (HIT). Yet the United States lags behind other countries by as much as a dozen years in its efforts to implement HIT.

http://www.cmwf.org/publications/publications_show.htm?doc_id=372221

 

[Cypress]

Yet Toyotas sold here in the US are assembled in the US. Amazingly they have a high standard of living and keep costs low as well as sell one of the highest quality vehicles around. Astoundingly the others do not.

Realizing that cost basis analysis shows that the US companies are paying exceedingly higher than their competitors and putting out a lower quality vehicle doesn't mean you "hate unions", it means you realize WHY the US companies are being beat by the competition and WHY so many companies begin to outsource.

Add to that the constant barrage by the Union, yes here we are constantly barraged by them being 200 non-union employees in a company of over 50K employees who are for the most part unionized, about how the company treats us all so poorly.

Why do you think Toyota in rural Tennesse pays wages that compete with UAW wages in Detroit?

1) Is it out of the goodness of the hearts?

2) Is it because 20 dollars an hour is the prevailing wage in rural tennesse?

3) Or, is it because they offer those wages, to be competative with wages negotiated by UAW in Detroit? As a way to keep their plants from being unionized?


If you chose option 3, what happens when you, Bush and superfreak finally break the UAW, and force automotive unions into extinction?

 

[Damocles]

"Beginning Universal Health Care before an overhaul of the system only transfers the exceedingly high cost and does nothing to improve the system."

We spend more per capita than other advance nations, yet we don't even cover all our citizens:

Which is a sign of exactly what I was stating. Simply saying "Universal Healthcare" without a serious overhaul of our current system only transfers the cost without actually doing anything about it.

I don't trust the government to have SS when I retire, but I suddenly think they can run an efficient system for my healthcare? HMOs are over bureaucatized, let's add some more to the mess!

The same government that borrows money to pay interest on its debt is going to magically make it cheaper?

 

[Damocles]

Why do you think Toyota in rural Tennesse pays wages that compete with UAW wages in Detroit?

1) Is it out of the goodness of the hearts?

2) Is it because 20 dollars an hour is the prevailing wage in rural tennesse?

3) Or, is it because they offer those wages, to be competative with wages negotiated by UAW in Detroit? As a way to keep their plants from being unionized?


If you chose option 3, what happens when you, Bush and superfreak finally break the UAW, and force automotive unions into extinction?

When did I say we should break the union? Allow the company to move to, oh let's say rural Tenessee where the wage to be competitive is acheivable. The Union will fight it, but the reality is where they currently are they cannot compete. At some point people have to realize they can price themselves right out of the market.

 

[uscitizen]

Why do you think Toyota in rural Tennesse pays wages that compete with UAW wages in Detroit?

1) Is it out of the goodness of the hearts?

2) Is it because 20 dollars an hour is the prevailing wage in rural tennesse?

3) Or, is it because they offer those wages, to be competative with wages negotiated by UAW in Detroit? As a way to keep their plants from being unionized?


If you chose option 3, what happens when you, Bush and superfreak finally break the UAW, and force automotive unions into extinction?

Same reason that Toyota builds Camrys in Georgetown, KY.

 

[Topspin]

freak does it feel like you banging you head on a wall.
Your a highly educated financial guy trying to talk basic micro economics with a bunch of socialist of high school grads who can't spell economics. LOFL

You too, are teaching them if they will listen.
But like most grasshoppers they are too shortsighted to listen to their master.

 

[Battleborne]

Ba hum Bug...

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070613/auto_talks.html?.v=6

and we wonder why US cars suck so much... couldn't be because they are spending all their money on labor rather than quality parts?

An average of $73 per hour at GM and about $75 per hour at Chrysler. Over $140k average on labor per employee per year. Yeah... those poor union employees. No wonder so many of their brethren have been laid off in the past 5 years.

I own two Chrysler products...a Jeep Cherokee Limited and a Dodge 1500 4x4...both are cool...only problemos I have is when I have to go to the auto parts store for normal replacement parts...Made in 'Mexico et al'... ya have to return them several times before you get a part that works!

 

[Cypress]

Same reason that Toyota builds Camrys in Georgetown, KY.

that's why they move their plants to those "right to work" states.

For now they'll keep their wages competetive with UAW wages in Michigan.

I wonder what they'll do when Cons get their wet dream and either destroy or marginalize unions? Will toyota in Kentucky still feel like paying UAW wages in rural kentucky?

 

[Topspin]

They pay more like 15 to 20 and hr Cypress in no way are they competetive with Detroit.

 

[uscitizen]

KY is already an open union state, but not as bad as a "right to work" state.
But our republican governor is working on that.

anytime a bill is titled something like "right to work", "clear skies", etc bend over and get out the vaseline.

 

[cawacko]

that's why they move their plants to those "right to work" states.

For now they'll keep their wages competetive with UAW wages in Michigan.

I wonder what they'll do when Cons get their wet dream and either destroy or marginalize unions? Will toyota in Kentucky still feel like paying UAW wages in rural kentucky?

Private unions make up what, 8% of the current workforce?

There was a large article in the L.A. Times recently about local unions going after local felons as they try to grow membership. Now I have no problem with that. I'm glad the felons are getting a chance to work. But within the article they interviewed union workers and leaders who talked about the past when they made it so hard to join the union that you basically had to have a family member (or relative) already be a member to join. They now of course say that was a bad policy on their behalf.

So you can claim Republicans are trying to kill unions but you might want to look at the union behavior itself and see what they done to get themselves in this prediciment.

 

[Cypress]

Private unions make up what, 8% of the current workforce?

There was a large article in the L.A. Times recently about local unions going after local felons as they try to grow membership. Now I have no problem with that. I'm glad the felons are getting a chance to work. But within the article they interviewed union workers and leaders who talked about the past when they made it so hard to join the union that you basically had to have a family member (or relative) already be a member to join. They now of course say that was a bad policy on their behalf.

So you can claim Republicans are trying to kill unions but you might want to look at the union behavior itself and see what they done to get themselves in this prediciment.

Has there been corruption in unions? Yes. Every large institution has corruption.

On balance, have unions benefited american workers? Yes, this can't even be contested.

 

[Damocles]

Has there been corruption in unions? Yes. Every large institution has corruption.

On balance, have unions benefited american workers? Yes, this can't even be contested.

So, when people point out the actual problem they get "You are trying to break the union, and you hate America's workers!"

When in reality we are saying. "No company can lose billions per year and stay afloat, part of the problem is that they are simply paying so much more than their competitors, and getting less quality for all of that. We should work out a way that these companies can compete, this might mean paying workers a bit less."

Your answer is the lib equivalent of "Why do you hate America?"

Not one post on here proposed breaking the union, they only point out that one can negotiate their company out of existence and hence negotiate their way out of a job.

 

[cawacko]

Has there been corruption in unions? Yes. Every large institution has corruption.

On balance, have unions benefited american workers? Yes, this can't even be contested.

I would argue with the 'in can not be contested' statement. I agree unions have some workers but not to a point beyond contention.

In this instance (like many others) I am not smart enough to argue this on my own so I turn to others smarter than me for the rebuttal. Here is one...


"""In reality, union representation harms many workers, contrary to the assertions of the proponents of the superior bargaining power fallacy. For one thing, unions can only benefit some of their members—the ones who are not priced out of jobs by wages that are pushed up above market rates through use of the union strike threat or other devices. Other union members, typically those with the least job experience, will lose their jobs. As they seek work in other areas, including the non-union work force, they will tend to depress wages there. In general, virtually all gains by unionized workers come at the expense of non-union workers who are deprived of job opportunities by union power.

In the U.S. and a number of other countries there is a law called "exclusivity" which gives a union a legal monopoly in the employee representation business. It is illegal for any employees within a unionized "bargaining unit" to bargain individually, or to employ any other bargaining agent, even another union.

One consequence of exclusive representation laws is that the more productive workers within a unionized workplace are usually made worse off by being legally prohibited from being paid higher than the general union scale. Indeed, the effects of unions has been to reduce the dispersion of wages, or to reduce the wages paid to the higher productivity workers while increasing the wages of the less productive ones. In other words, union bargaining causes the best workers to be penalized, and the least productive ones are enriched. This is one among many reasons why employers go to great lengths to avoid unionization: rewarding mediocrity and penalizing superior performance is not the way to remain competitive in the global economy."""


http://www.mises.org/fullstory.aspx?control=1602

 

[uscitizen]

Private unions make up what, 8% of the current workforce?

There was a large article in the L.A. Times recently about local unions going after local felons as they try to grow membership. Now I have no problem with that. I'm glad the felons are getting a chance to work. But within the article they interviewed union workers and leaders who talked about the past when they made it so hard to join the union that you basically had to have a family member (or relative) already be a member to join. They now of course say that was a bad policy on their behalf.

So you can claim Republicans are trying to kill unions but you might want to look at the union behavior itself and see what they done to get themselves in this prediciment.

Darn! unions are getting just like military recruiters.

 

[uscitizen]

So, when people point out the actual problem they get "You are trying to break the union, and you hate America's workers!"

When in reality we are saying. "No company can lose billions per year and stay afloat, part of the problem is that they are simply paying so much more than their competitors, and getting less quality for all of that. We should work out a way that these companies can compete, this might mean paying workers a bit less."

Your answer is the lib equivalent of "Why do you hate America?"

Not one post on here proposed breaking the union, they only point out that one can negotiate their company out of existence and hence negotiate their way out of a job.

Sounds kinda like the same argument given by companies hiring illegal immigrants.

Like the airlines, pay cuts for the workers and big bonuses for the execs....