US Signals Permanent Stay in Iraq - What a surprise

blackascoal

The Force is With Me
We're there to rape the country and murder anyone who gets in our way.

US signals permanent stay in Iraq
Critics say a long-term US military presence may provoke greater Iraqi resistance of the 'occupier.'

http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0612/p01s01-woiq.html

This spring's debate over a timetable for withdrawal from Iraq may have implied that the US presence there is likely to wind down soon, but recent comments from both the administration and military officials suggest a different scenario.

In Washington and among American military officers in Iraq, the idea of establishing permanent US bases there is under discussion – with one official citing as an example the decades-long presence of US troops in Korea. The aim would be to keep American soldiers on Iraqi soil well into the century as a support for the Iraqi government against outside aggression, a means of training and developing a new Iraqi military, and a platform from which the US could fight Al Qaeda and other war-on-terror opponents.

Yet as early proposals in notebooks at the White House and the Pentagon are slowly revealed to a US public increasingly opposed to the Iraq war, many Iraq and Middle East experts warn that any plan for permanent bases would cement the US image in Iraq and the region as that of an occupying force.

"This is a really bad idea, one that will only feed the image of the US as the occupier, the colonial power," says Larry Diamond, a former official with the American provisional authority that governed Iraq in the two years after Saddam Hussein's ouster. "There's no way long-term military bases are going to be acceptable to a majority of the Iraqi population."

Mr. Diamond, now an expert in democratization at Stanford University in Palo Alto, Calif., has argued for more than two years for the US to relinquish any plans for permanent bases. Such a step, perhaps more than anything else the US could do, he says, would cool the conflict and ease the deadly opposition to the 160,000 US troops now on Iraqi soil.

Even supporters of a permanent American presence in Iraq say now is not the time to stoke flames of anti-American feeling by openly discussing prospects for permanent bases.

"We'd be stupid not to be planning for what I see is the probability of long-term bases," says Ralph Peters, a retired Army intelligence officer specializing in the Middle East. "But it's premature to openly discuss the prospect until you win the war, so I'd have to say the floating of these ideas was not very artfully done."

What Gates and Snow broached

In recent comments to the press, White House spokesman Tony Snow broached the idea of a long-term US military presence in Iraq and specifically drew a comparison to Korea and the 30,000 troops the US keeps there five decades after the end of the Korean War. At the same time, Defense Secretary Robert Gates spoke of a "protracted" US presence in Iraq.

Such comments from the civilian leadership increasingly mirror the perspective of US military leaders on the ground in Iraq. An Army officer who requested anonymity on the issue because he is not authorized to discuss long-term policy said, for example, that a consensus is growing among US military leaders for the need for long-term training of Iraqi forces and a continued US presence to fight Al Qaeda.

In making public statements about the possibility of permanent bases in Iraq, the Bush administration sought to send a signal to the Iraqi government, say some experts.

"The reason these ideas were floated out of the White House now basically lies in the context of all the speculation and congressional debate over a big drawdown being just over the horizon," says Michael O'Hanlon, a military affairs expert at the Brookings Institution in Washington.

"This is the Bush administration wanting to send a message of resolve, to Americans but mostly to the Iraqi people," he adds. "If Iraqi leaders believe we are getting ready to leave, they are more likely to focus on preparing for full-blown civil war and less on the steps needed for national reconciliation."

The Korea comparison and comments from military officers in Iraq suggest the US may be contemplating a long-term presence in Iraq of 30,000 to 50,000 troops – perhaps one-quarter of the numbers there today. But many experts caution against equating Iraq in the 21st century with South Korea in the 20th.

"The analogy doesn't make sense," says Mr. O'Hanlon. "South Korea was threatened by an external enemy. Iraq is threatened by internal chaos."

Others single out the perception of US forces as the essential difference between the two cases.

"Korea was pro-American, and there was a sense of common cause in the face of the communist threat," says Stanford's Diamond.

Planning permanent bases in Iraq could backfire and set back the progress the US has made against Al Qaeda by turning some newly acquired US allies back into opponents, Diamond adds.

"Certainly this would not sit well with the Sunnis, who are finally willing to engage with us and ally with us against Al Qaeda," he says. "If we start talking about permanent bases with 30,000 troops, they'll go back to seeing us as something they need to resist."

An air-ground combo in the north?

Mr. Peters takes a different view, however, saying the minority Sunnis are starting to see the American presence in a different light as they wrangle with the majority Shiite population and government over Iraq's future. Still, even he assumes that any permanent US bases would have to be in the "pro-American" Kurdish north.

"I don't think we'd try to keep open bases the Iraqis didn't want," Peters says. His assumption is that the US plan would call for one or two air bases jointly located with ground-forces bases – something comprising about 30,000 troops.

Peters says he sees US discussion of permanent bases as part of planning for the possibility that Iraq may not hold together. A continued US presence then becomes a kind of caution light against jittery neighbors that may step up their intervention and openly take sides.

But he also sees some sense in the Korea analogy.

"The point is, our forces in Korea really have kept the peace, and they did allow South Korea, a country that was in ruins, to develop," he says. "By talking about Korea, they're talking about giving Iraq time to develop."

That reasoning assumes that a long-term US presence will aid in Iraq's stability and development – something not everyone agrees can be assumed.

"We are going to have to be in Iraq for a number of years still, but to talk in terms of a number of decades is not helpful," says Brookings' O'Hanlon. "Despite our best efforts, we have been part of the reason for the turmoil in Iraq. We should not presuppose that our long-term presence will be beneficial."
 
Bad idea. Thankfully, when we leave any permanent bases would work as bases for any Iraqi force as well. It isn't like there were special "American" doorknobs installed that they won't have the sophistication to use because they are "AAayRaaabs"...

I am reasonably sure, that even if this is in the plan it won't be done. The most we will have is in that huge-assed Embassy we are building and it won't be a favorite place to be the Ambassador even so.
 
My favorite crack on bush is "the resurrection is not an exit strategy". The other reasons aside, in many theoneos minds we are there to help the jews establish their god granted kingdom. They're scary programmed noahide killbots.
 
US signals permanent stay in Iraq

Critics say a long-term US military presence may provoke greater Iraqi resistance of the 'occupier.'


I fondly remember the days when I said long-term bases were a primary goal for the invasion, yet was roundly shouted down by NeoCons who assured me that Bush had every intention of leaving Iraq as soon as possible.
 
Bad idea. Thankfully, when we leave any permanent bases would work as bases for any Iraqi force as well. It isn't like there were special "American" doorknobs installed that they won't have the sophistication to use because they are "AAayRaaabs"...

I am reasonably sure, that even if this is in the plan it won't be done. The most we will have is in that huge-assed Embassy we are building and it won't be a favorite place to be the Ambassador even so.

I agree, but additionally, this is planned at the same time we're trying to shove the Iraq Oil Law down their throats which would give 70% of the profits from Iraq's oil resources over to foreign investors .. and there's no way the Iraqi's are going to buy that.
 
I agree, but additionally, this is planned at the same time we're trying to shove the Iraq Oil Law down their throats which would give 70% of the profits from Iraq's oil resources over to foreign investors .. and there's no way the Iraqi's are going to buy that.

Right, be Bush will not give it up, that is why we invaded, the rest is just window dressing.
 
Right, be Bush will not give it up, that is why we invaded, the rest is just window dressing.

Right on the money correct.

This entire "war on terror", including the attack on Afghanistan, was planned by PNAC, BEFORE 9/11, and Bush did what he was told.

They wanted the Central Asia pipeline built though Afghanistan and control of Iraq's oil resources .. neither of which could have happened without 9/11.

They needed a "“some catastrophic and catalysing event – like a new Pearl Harbor"
Why Another Defense Review

From the 1998 Congressional Record
Statement of John J. Maresca, Unocal Executive

I would like to focus today on three issues. First, the need for multiple pipeline routes for Central Asian oil and gas resources. Second, the need for U.S. support for international and regional efforts to achieve balanced and lasting political settlements to the conflicts in the region, including Afghanistan. Third, the need for structured assistance to encourage economic reforms and the development of appropriate investment climates in the region. In this regard, we specifically support repeal or removal of section 907 of the Freedom Support Act.

One major problem has yet to be resolved: how to get the region's vast energy resources to the markets where they are needed. Central Asia is isolated. Their natural resources are land locked, both geographically and politically. Each of the countries in the Caucasus and Central Asia faces difficult political challenges. Some have unsettled wars or latent conflicts. Others have evolving systems where the laws and even the courts are dynamic and changing. In addition, a chief technical obstacle which we in the industry face in transporting oil is the region's existing pipeline infrastructure.

One obvious route south would cross Iran, but this is foreclosed for American companies because of U.S. sanctions legislation. The only other possible route is across Afghanistan, which has of course its own unique challenges. The country has been involved in bitter warfare for almost two decades, and is still divided by civil war. From the outset, we have made it clear that construction of the pipeline we have proposed across Afghanistan could not begin until a recognized government is in place that has the confidence of governments, lenders, and our company.

As with the proposed Central Asia oil pipeline, CentGas can not begin construction until an internationally recognized Afghanistan Government is in place.

PNAC letter to Bill Clinton in 1998 urging him to pre-emptively attack Iraq with then existing UN resolutions.
http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqclintonletter.htm

Clinton did not comply

PNAC letter to George Bush September 20, 2001 urging him to attack iraq "even if evidence does not link Iraq directly to the attack
http://www.newamericancentury.org/Bushletter.htm

Bush and his neocon mongrels did
 
I agree, but additionally, this is planned at the same time we're trying to shove the Iraq Oil Law down their throats which would give 70% of the profits from Iraq's oil resources over to foreign investors .. and there's no way the Iraqi's are going to buy that.
Like any other legislative body they can change that law at any moment. It's like pretending that Bush could make his tax cuts "permanent" (quotes for emphasis).
 
US signals permanent stay in Iraq

Critics say a long-term US military presence may provoke greater Iraqi resistance of the 'occupier.'


I fondly remember the days when I said long-term bases were a primary goal for the invasion, yet was roundly shouted down by NeoCons who assured me that Bush had every intention of leaving Iraq as soon as possible.
I have never said it wasn't his plan, I have said that we will leave. Bush is not the King and regardless of his plans we will leave Iraq, and any permanent base we have built can be used by an Iraqi force as easily as a US force. I have said it many times, but people pretend that when the US leaves either the bases will suddenly disappear into the ether, or that the Iraqis will suddenly fail to comprehend those complicated American Doorknobs rendering the bases utterly unusable. Or they pretend that Bush can plan to stay and the Congress or the next President couldn't do anything at all about it.

Either of those pretenses are simply cartoonish.
 
Strange when I brought up the piplene issue and such a couple of years ago I got called a kool aid drinker and conspiracy theorist ;)
 
I have never said it wasn't his plan, I have said that we will leave. Bush is not the King and regardless of his plans we will leave Iraq, and any permanent base we have built can be used by an Iraqi force as easily as a US force. I have said it many times, but people pretend that when the US leaves either the bases will suddenly disappear into the ether, or that the Iraqis will suddenly fail to comprehend those complicated American Doorknobs rendering the bases utterly unusable. Or they pretend that Bush can plan to stay and the Congress or the next President couldn't do anything at all about it.

Either of those pretenses are simply cartoonish.
The Pentagon, however, will not want to relinquish the bases. Neither will a large faction in Congress. They will likely play the "they're too expensive to give up now" card, which, while not an ace, is at least a low valued trump.

I expect you're right: the next administration and Congress will be able to hand them over to the Iraqis. I don't regard it as a done deal though. Never underestimate the influence of the MIC.
 
The Pentagon, however, will not want to relinquish the bases. Neither will a large faction in Congress. They will likely play the "they're too expensive to give up now" card, which, while not an ace, is at least a low valued trump.

I expect you're right: the next administration and Congress will be able to hand them over to the Iraqis. I don't regard it as a done deal though. Never underestimate the influence of the MIC.
The Pentagon will be unable to change whether or not we leave. It may have influence, but I believe that we will be leaving sooner rather than later.
 
Bad idea. Thankfully, when we leave any permanent bases would work as bases for any Iraqi force as well. It isn't like there were special "American" doorknobs installed that they won't have the sophistication to use because they are "AAayRaaabs"...

I am reasonably sure, that even if this is in the plan it won't be done. The most we will have is in that huge-assed Embassy we are building and it won't be a favorite place to be the Ambassador even so.
I agree it is a bad Idea, but it certainly isn't a surprise. I think this has been Bush's intent all along. It can only be stopped if the American people put their collective foot down.
 
Strange when I brought up the piplene issue and such a couple of years ago I got called a kool aid drinker and conspiracy theorist ;)

Welcome to the club my friend.

But then again .. when we said Saddam didn't have WMD we heard the same thing.

When we said the idea of "mushroom clouds in 45 minutes" was mindlessly stupid we heard the same thing.

When we said the Niger documents were forged we heard the same thing.

When we said an attack on Iraq would be the worst military blunder in US history we heard the same thing.

When we said the Bush Administration was full of lies and deceptions from top to bottom we heard the same thing.

We've heard the same crap, "unamerican", "unpatriotic", "loonies", all before.

Only we keep on being correct, and they keep on looking the fool.
 
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The Pentagon, however, will not want to relinquish the bases. Neither will a large faction in Congress. They will likely play the "they're too expensive to give up now" card, which, while not an ace, is at least a low valued trump.

I expect you're right: the next administration and Congress will be able to hand them over to the Iraqis. I don't regard it as a done deal though. Never underestimate the influence of the MIC.

Nor should you underestimate the complicity of the Democratic Party.
 
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